You're right TFred!
I didn't read the full card. Looks like this is a PM thread. Looking forward to hearing the facts.
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Illegally Detained 12/21/10 - Fairfax County Police/Mason District
- Thread starter GULCer
- Start date
You're right TFred!
I didn't read the full card. Looks like this is a PM thread. Looking forward to hearing the facts.
eye95
Well-known member
I wondered where the additional info came from. However, if it is accurate, I have to wonder why the OP thought it inadvisable to tell us even that he was OCing and that he was asked for permit and license.
I just don't see the point in the post if what he posted was all he deigned to tell us. It is not like he is going to gin up more than an ounce of indignation for his plight.
I just don't see the point in the post if what he posted was all he deigned to tell us. It is not like he is going to gin up more than an ounce of indignation for his plight.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
(I'm going to assume that GULCer is telling the truth, and knows what he is talking about. I have no reason to doubt him.)
Go get 'em, GULCer!!
Document/record everything. Be especially ready for heavy fog against the FOIA request.
Screwing with a law-student OCer, of all things.
Permit me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit. I mean their education. In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study...the spirit...is stubborn and litigious...This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterous, prompt in attack, ready in defence, full of resources...They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze. Edmund Burke, Speech on Conciliation with the Colonies to Parliament March 22, 1775.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch1s2.html
Go get 'em, GULCer!!
Document/record everything. Be especially ready for heavy fog against the FOIA request.
Screwing with a law-student OCer, of all things.
Permit me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit. I mean their education. In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study...the spirit...is stubborn and litigious...This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterous, prompt in attack, ready in defence, full of resources...They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze. Edmund Burke, Speech on Conciliation with the Colonies to Parliament March 22, 1775.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch1s2.html
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Eye, lets face it. You were real curious, and got rebuffed. And, now ya got hurt feelings about it.
1. Your "moving on" comment a few posts earlier says it all.
2. Now you're back, having not actually moved on.
Give it a rest, please. He doesn't want to talk about it. Keeping details hidden makes it harder for the cops to figure out a cover story, and to coordinate their stories. Their only option is to roll with the truth.
Personally, I would not have posted about the incident, nor that it was recorded. No warning for the fuzz until the FOIA lands. Less time to coordinate stories on their side, less time to figure out how to dodge. Especially if they don't know there is a recording. And, no way to research the poster or his posts.*
But, he wanted to mention a little bit about it. So, let it go at what he's told us. Everything he says can and will be used against him, as the saying goes. The cops are pretty saavy and can figure out how to use pretty much every dribble of information in one way or another. Every bit of info denied to them is something they cannot use to evade.
ProShooter
Regular Member
palerider116
Regular Member
Verbiage is a bit askew in the postcard.
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
TFred is a very smart man.
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
I take it you don't like that card?
Dreamer
Regular Member
We're seeing this same trend in NC. Otherwise law-abiding OCers, who have been OCing for months (or even years) unmolested, are suddently finding themselves on the receiving end of illegal "stop and identify" encounters and unlawful detainments.
Could it be just mere coincidence that these incidents are popping up all over the Mid-Atlantic region at exactly the same time as the quiet roll-out of DHS's "if you see something, say something" propaganda campaign? Is there perhaps a set of "orders from above" to start putting the screws to OCers and 1A activists to create a chilling effect in those movements
Seems awfully convenient that just as DHS, WalMart, Target, and others are rolling out their technotronic program of snitchery, the LEAs in many historically OC-friendly jurisdictions are all of a sudden getting REALLY twitchy about lawful OC...
Has there been a new MIAC-like report circulated that demonizes OCers and 1A and 2A activists? Are we being branded as the new "internal threat"?
When peaceful, lawful dissent is branded as a criminal act, history has borne out that the trains and camps can't be far behind...
Which side are you on, boys, which side are you on?
Could it be just mere coincidence that these incidents are popping up all over the Mid-Atlantic region at exactly the same time as the quiet roll-out of DHS's "if you see something, say something" propaganda campaign? Is there perhaps a set of "orders from above" to start putting the screws to OCers and 1A activists to create a chilling effect in those movements
Seems awfully convenient that just as DHS, WalMart, Target, and others are rolling out their technotronic program of snitchery, the LEAs in many historically OC-friendly jurisdictions are all of a sudden getting REALLY twitchy about lawful OC...
Has there been a new MIAC-like report circulated that demonizes OCers and 1A and 2A activists? Are we being branded as the new "internal threat"?
When peaceful, lawful dissent is branded as a criminal act, history has borne out that the trains and camps can't be far behind...
Which side are you on, boys, which side are you on?
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palerider116
Regular Member
At face value it appears it could be a large government conspiracy. But if you look hard enough for something, you can always find it, even if its not there. As with driving home everyday of the week through the same intersection, you could go 25 years without an accident and that one day, get t-boned. Hundreds of peaceful and legal encounters with LEO's and then you get t-boned by an ignorant or malicious one is the same way.
I wouldn't press panic and start searching for the conspiracy.
The US Government is too porous to pull off a successful secret. If someone knows, then everyone will know. There is always someone there to make a buck or someone who can't keep their mouth shut. You won't wake up one day and find that silently in the night, freedom and civil liberties have been suspended. It will be violently imposed, and it will make no effort to disguise itself.
I wouldn't press panic and start searching for the conspiracy.
The US Government is too porous to pull off a successful secret. If someone knows, then everyone will know. There is always someone there to make a buck or someone who can't keep their mouth shut. You won't wake up one day and find that silently in the night, freedom and civil liberties have been suspended. It will be violently imposed, and it will make no effort to disguise itself.
Deanimator
Regular Member
A COSMICALLY bad idea.
Even if they know he HAS a recording, they DON'T know WHAT was recorded.
If he posts the recording BEFORE his FOIA request is filled, they will have the opportunity to "adjust" their report to conform to what ACTUALLY happened. If he doesn't, they won't know what SPECIFIC lies to tell.
If he catches them in a lie in an OFFICIAL document, that's an ADDITIONAL count to the complaint. It could in fact keep the offenders from testifying in court in the future. If they LIED in the report, I'd make sure every criminal defense attorney in cruise missile range knows about it. I imagine it's hard to be a cop if you can NEVER testify to ANYTHING under oath.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
What better way to violently impose than to have the trucks, Bradleys, and tanks quietly seize the major intersections at 3:00am. After seizing TV and radio stations, and disabling the internet hubs, of course. Little violence needed.
Conspiracy is the wrong word Palerider.
It is an unbelievably disturbing trend in law enforcement and the general attitude of our government.
We have taken giant steps backward. Far beyond the prying and record keeping of the J. Edgar Hoover years that we fought so hard to change in the 60's and 70's.
There has been a tidal wave of "We're gonna get you for your own safety" news releases from Government and LE in the past few days. It's no secret when they're shoving it down our throats.
A number of years ago when I was with the state, the Sheriff of Orange County (Va) walked out of a meeting with Janet Reno when she told the group that this would happen and they had to prepare for the New Law Enforcement.
I called him that afternoon to thank him! Too bad there weren't more of him.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
I like it.
I'm assuming you wouldn't send it unless you had inside information.
I like the idea of ridiculing them a bit. After all this time? The Champps encounter in 2006, the Tony's Incident in 2007. A few here and there, since and in between. There is no way in hell those cops didn't know.
By the way, its RAS for a detention, as compared to probable cause.
I guess I'll start polishing my shoes and holster. If the fuzz mishandles this, I can see an OCer protest in the Mason District government center parking lot. Wouldn't Petty Penny Gross like that!
eye95
Well-known member
Then he should have kept his trap shut.
Instead, he comes on here and tries to create outrage and sympathy, shares some information, but is not forthcoming with those whose support he seeks. It seems that he also gives a few tidbits to another member who comes on here to share them.
Nah, I don't respect how the OP chose to handle the matter on the board. But, I didn't want to come right out and say that, so I tried to move on. Oh, well.
palerider116
Regular Member
I'm not sure where you live, but around here, there are enough awake to make Paul Revere and William Dawes proud.
No, I'm quite sure we will see and hear it coming. You will condition the country for catastrophe, and then something will happen.
Keep your ear to the rail.
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
palerider116
Regular Member
I wouldn't use the "c" word across the board. For those who are sensationalists, yep, I give them "c" rating. For those who keep their ear to the rail, and eyes open, quite the opposite. Some people suffer from the Chicken Little syndrome.
That Orange county sheriff...that's a real lawman right there. Does his badge proud and his oath justice.
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Tries? He succeeded. I was/am outraged. Thats why I asked questions before I sent the card. This is no rinky-dink Barney Fife Police department.. This is one of the largest departments in the state.. with hundreds and hundreds of officers. And to have 3 guys from a district where VCDL holds the monthly meetings (with 50+ armed) members makes me mad.
When YOU get detained or arrested or detained.. put out the information ANY WAY YOU WANT.. it's up to you.. change your mind 50 times.. thats up to you too. Re-edit your original post, add to it.. doesn't matter.. When something happens to YOU, you decide something.. think about it and retract or add to it as you want to.. I know I sure do. It;s my choice.. one of my freedoms.