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Thread: Gfsz ???

  1. #1
    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    Gfsz ???

    in the dells area there is a church owned building where parents home school there kids can that be part of the GFSZ headache or can we ignore that

    please cite when replying
    Last edited by oliverclotheshoff; 12-21-2010 at 12:00 PM.
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    in the dells area there is a church owned building where parents home school there kids can that be part of the GFSZ headache or can we ignore that

    please cite when replying
    Are any of the parents compensated by the church and thus issued a 1099 or a W2?

    I Am Not A Lawyer, but if not, my guess is that you could ignore it, if it is true 'home schooling'.

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    that i dont know of
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    If it is collective home schooling, I would say, be safe and not to risk it. Cuz you might not get an anwer unitl the jury delivers a verdict.

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    Hey, If you don't know it's there ! just say'n
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    in the dells area there is a church owned building where parents home school there kids can that be part of the GFSZ headache or can we ignore that

    please cite when replying
    Since home school does not meet the definition of a K-12 school, home school does not create a GFSZ

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Since home school does not meet the definition of a K-12 school, home school does not create a GFSZ
    +1

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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    The "legal" definition of "school" in the WI statutes (in regards to GFSZ) seems to me to be pretty expansive.

    948.61(1)(b)
    (b) "School" means a public school, parochial or private school, or tribal school, as defined in s. 115.001 (15m), which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school.

    If in this situation parents are teaching children in addition to, or other than their own, at a place other than their own home an aggressive prosecutor might be able to make an argument, and have a lot of people attest to the "fact", that it is a "school".

    There is no requirement in the statute definition that the teachers be paid professionals or that there be some monster administrative bureaucracy to be a "school". All that seems to be required is "...provides an educational progarm..." and "is commondly know as a ... school..."
    Last edited by Big Dipper; 12-22-2010 at 04:51 PM.

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    Don't forget the wording of the GFSZ law, You must "Knowingly" be in a school zone, or have "reason to believe" you are in a school zone.

    So without school crossing signs, or a big-ole billboard out front stating it is a school, How would a normal person know?

    But forget about that defense now because it was discussed on a publicly viewable forum, and the police do watch this board among others to help them cite otherwise innocent people for laws that make nothing safer for anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    But forget about that defense now because it was discussed on a publicly viewable forum, and the police do watch this board among others to help them cite otherwise innocent people for laws that make nothing safer for anyone.
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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    unless its a registered "school" it does not count as a school zone. Otherwise anyone can call their home a school.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Its right next to the one that says anyone can call any home, building or tent a school. Show a cite showing otherwise. Its the prosecutions responsibility to prove guilt. not the other way around.
    Last edited by bigdaddy1; 12-22-2010 at 07:29 PM.

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by County Prosecutor View Post
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dipper View Post
    The "legal" definition of "school" in the WI statutes (in regards to GFSZ) seems to me to be pretty expansive.

    948.61(1)(b)
    (b) "School" means a public school, parochial or private school, or tribal school, as defined in s. 115.001 (15m), which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school.

    If in this situation parents are teaching children in addition to, or other than their own, at a place other than their own home an aggressive prosecutor might be able to make an argument, and have a lot of people attest to the "fact", that it is a "school".

    There is no requirement in the statute definition that the teachers be paid professionals or that there be some monster administrative bureaucracy to be a "school". All that seems to be required is "...provides an educational progarm..." and "is commondly know as a ... school..."
    Actually, it is pretty specific regarding what a "School" is... and you left out a very important part of the requirement... "Commonly known as" does not mean that you find 20 of your friends to attest to the fact that THEY commonly know it as "an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school".....
    Commonly knowing it as a "School" is not enough if it is not commonly known as "an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school".....


    “School” means a public school, parochial or private
    school, or tribal school, as defined in s. 115.001 (15m), which provides
    an educational program for one or more grades between
    grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary
    school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or
    high school
    .

    PRIVATE SCHOOL. “Private school” means an institution
    with a private educational program that meets all of the criteria
    under s. 118.165 (1) or is determined to be a private school by the
    state superintendent under s. 118.167.
    Private schools. (1) An institution is a private
    school if its educational program meets all of the following criteria:
    (a) The primary purpose of the program is to provide private
    or religious−based education.
    (b) The program is privately controlled.
    (c) The program provides at least 875 hours of instruction each
    school year.
    (d) The program provides a sequentially progressive curriculum
    of fundamental instruction in reading, language arts, mathematics,
    social studies, science and health. This subsection does
    not require the program to include in its curriculum any concept,
    topic or practice in conflict with the program’s religious doctrines
    or to exclude from its curriculum any concept, topic or practice
    consistent with the program’s religious doctrines.
    (e) The program is not operated or instituted for the purpose
    of avoiding or circumventing the compulsory school attendance
    requirement under s. 118.15 (1) (a) and (am).
    (f) The pupils in the institution’s educational program, in the
    ordinary course of events, return annually to the homes of their
    parents or guardians for not less than 2 months of summer vacation,
    or the institution is licensed as a child welfare agency under
    s. 48.60 (1).

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    So then would home schoolers' fall under this?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    Interceptor_Knight, I have no quarrel with your elaboration whatsoever.

    I was merely trying to point out that there is no requirement that it be "registered" with the state to be a "school" (and an associated school zone) for GFSZ purposes.

    A group home school such as presented by the OP could certainly be "commonly known" in the area as an "elementary school" and therefore meet the requirements. The state does not need to be involved in a "declaration" that it is a school.

    My abridgement of the citation was certainly not meant to imply that barber schools, beauty schools, karate schools or the like would fall within the requirements of the WI GFSZ! I only abbreviated for emphasis, having already provided the full citation.
    Last edited by Big Dipper; 12-23-2010 at 11:35 AM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dipper View Post
    A group home school such as presented by the OP could certainly be "commonly known" in the area as an "elementary school" and therefore meet the requirements. The state does not need to be involved in a "declaration" that it is a school..
    That could be more easily disproven than proven for the purposes of the GFSZ Statute unless it was more officially established as an Elemantary School..

  19. #19
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    So then would home schoolers' fall under this?
    No

    HOME−BASED PRIVATE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM. “Home−
    based private educational program” means a program of educational
    instruction provided to a child by the child’s parent or
    guardian or by a person designated by the parent or guardian. An
    instructional program provided to more than one family unit does
    not constitute a home−based private educational program.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    No
    Thank you.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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