New gun owner considering open carry

mdbama · Dec 21, 2010

Hey all, my name is Mike, I am a 22 year old W/M attending The University of Alabama and I recently purchased a new XD9. I am considering open carry as an option, but I want to be prepared for the problems that sheeple:banghead: can cause. I'm not ready to have the gun on campus, justified or not, so please don't address that yet. I also know I can't get in an automobile with it without my CWP, but what about a bicycle or motorcycle? I would also like to have a black and white printout to hand a questioning officer or uninformed person on the legality of open carry, to save myself from perpetuating fear and false knowledge by misspeaking. I don't know what this printout should include though.

TIA for any help or advice, you all seem like a knowledgeable and level headed bunch.

eye95 · Dec 21, 2010

Motorcycle: permit needed.

Bicycle: the definition of a vehicle is not clear. I incline to believe it is not a vehicle and that OC without a permit would be lawful. However, if an officer and a judge see it differently, you could be in for a really bad day.

Pop on over to AlabamaOpenCarry.com to chat with more Alabamians about OC.

Brimstone Baritone · Dec 22, 2010

Welcome aboard!

We have a few different handouts made up on AlabamaOpenCarry.com that you might like. One is even business card sized so you can keep a few in your wallet.

The group in Tuscaloosa is just getting off the ground, but they should be having regular meetings any time now. It's always easier to carry when you aren't the only one.

As far as dealing with people, most won't notice or care. The handouts really do seem to be the best way to handle curious people until you become an OC Evangelist like Eye95 or AL Ranger.

mdbama · Dec 22, 2010

Thank you sir, that sounds like what I need! My folks live in Montgomery, so when I'm back home I'll likely be carrying with dad. I will be trying to attend some functions down here.

aadvark · Dec 22, 2010

mdbama:

Congradulations on your Matriculation into The World of Open Carry!

The First Piece of Advice is: ALWAYS Listen to eye95!

Secondly, in Alabama, Open Carry is Legal anywhere except the Places Enumerated under Alabama Codes 1975 13A-11-59 AND 13A-11-72(c).

A Valid Pistol Permit from the Sheriff of Tuscaloosa County WILL NOT Work an Exception to Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-59, however; it WILL Work an Exception to The Prohibiton Contained under Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-72(c), as is Identiifed under the same Code Section 13A-11-72(e). IF you have NO Intent to Harm another Person at the Place Listed under Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-72(c), then, it too, is a Statutory Defense to such a Charge.

Under Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-73, a Person HAS TO HAVE a Pistol Permit to Carry a Pistol in, on, or within ANY Vehicle or Concealed about their Person. This DOES NOT Apply to or Affect Rifles or Shotguns.

Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-52 is InValidated under Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-73, it being the Newer Statute and a Complete Revison of The Subject Matter, per Court Rulings.

Alabama Codes 1975 11-45-1.1 AND 11-80-11 Preempt Local Regulation of Firearms, AND 11-45-1.1 EXCLUSIVELY Reserves The Subject-matter of Pistols to The State Legislature, including The DisCharge of Pistols.

Technically..., it is LEGAL for you to Open Carry at The University of Alabama.

*** WARNING: Tuscaloosa County and Tuscaloosa City, in General, ARE Anti-Firearm..., and ARE Enforcing Illegal and Preempted Ordinances that Conflict with The Code of Alabama. Furthermore, University of Alabama SEEMS to be Enforcing Student Code of Conduct (d3), which, Starts by saying, '... nAuthorized Possesion...'. Under Alabama Law, you ARE Authorized to Carry a Pistol Openly on Campus, however; per your Request, it is a Personnal Decision that YOU are going to have to make. ***

eye95 · Dec 22, 2010

Wow. Thanks for the kind words, to both mcdonalk and aardvark.

If you pop over to AlabamaOpenCarry.com (link above), mcdonalk is aka Mystic Lemur. AL Ranger does most of his posting there and only some here. Aardvark ought to stop by ALOC once in a while and say hey--and share some of his wisdom!

Dianosis is the ALOC owner and has the wiregrass on fire. But, that's OK, we have a lot of firefighters and EMTs who post.

We Alabamians have two great OC Internet resources and a growing movement.

AirBear · Dec 22, 2010

Welcome Mike, to the freedom of open carry in Alabama,
Actually, a bit of clarification on the last post. A permit is required in Alabama to conceal a handgun on your person or IN a vehicle. There is no prohibition against carrying ON a vehicle such as a motorcycle. The law is actually very clear on this point.
Look up the law, print it out, highlight the wording IN. That action alone would show good faith on your part. The fact that your cared enough to want to obey the law, you researched the code, you carry it with you to inform any law enforcement officer or other ill advised citizen who purports to know the law. Also carry a voice recorder and if ever stopped, ensure your voice is heard clearly enough in explaining to the inquiring officer that you have researched the law, have it in writing on your person and as a courtesy to him/her will read it aloud into the voice recorder you are carrying. No need to hide the recorder. I can assure you, once an officer is aware they are being recorded, their demeanor will immediately become professional.
Now, speaking with the experience of 20 years in law enforcement, should any law enforcement officer decide to proceed with a false arrest after you have informed him/her of the law, you have just negated any claim of good faith that may previously have shielded him from suit.
Again, welcome and stay active in your comments and posts. Knowledge is power, and we all gain knowldge with the sharing of our experiences.

eye95 · Dec 22, 2010

The law defining vehicles specifically mentions boats. The usual preposition used with boats is "on" not "in." Yet, you will still be charged with violating the requirement in -73 if you carry on a boat without a permit.

I would not hang a defense on the preposition.

The ultimate solution is to remove the requirement for a permit to carry in a vehicle.

Kirbinator · Dec 22, 2010

Another thing to be aware of is that UA operates on the Indian (from Asia) system of gun ownership (bring it to the station, and we'll let you have it back when you leave), whereas UAB and Auburn outright prohibit firearms, ammunition and anything that looks like it might possibly be used for any purpose. I've not looked into UAH's regulations, but I imagine they prohibit aerosols, gels, liquids over three ounces, car keys, etc....

Also, it's not a CWP, it's a CPL. There's a difference, and the requirements for it are very specific to this state. Welcome on board.

mdbama · Dec 22, 2010

Thank you so much guys. I have been lurking these forums before I spoke up, and it is quite obvious that this is a well educated board (for the most part, every community has exceptions). I frequent the XDTalk forums quite a bit as well, and it is scary to know that some people have guns with the amount of intelligence exhibited within their statements.

Case in point the statutes listed above. The fact that you know the code, and just as importantly which code it is, speaks volumes. While I take comfort in knowing the letter of the law is on my side, police in Titletown can be awful antsy. I am not in this to make waves, but I fully intend to exercise my rights where reasonable, beacuse I may as well not have the right otherwise.

The statement about Tuscaloosa is disconcerting, I don't want to be arrested pay bail and lawyer up for something that is perfectly legal. I will arm myself with the information contained on the home page, and a tape recorder in case of such an occurrence. Campus PD does house student's firearms, but it is kind of tricky to be quite honest, because the station is in the middle of campus and you must walk through Sorority Row to arrive there. Like I said (and you respected) I am just not ready to open that can of worms, but have there been incidences of possible unlawful arrest of OC'ers in the city not counting campus?

I tend to 'side' (taken figuratively of course, we're on the same side here) with Eye95 on the bicycle/ boat carry. I'm not going to get into a battle of prepositions with the legal system.

I can't stress how thankful I am for y'alls help and information, not to mention the strides you've taken to protect my rights. My head is full of new information at this time, I'll be back with more questions.

eye95 · Dec 22, 2010

mdbama said:
Thank you so much guys. I have been lurking these forums before I spoke up, and it is quite obvious that this is a well educated board (for the most part, every community has exceptions). I frequent the XDTalk forums quite a bit as well, and it is scary to know that some people have guns with the amount of intelligence exhibited within their statements.

Case in point the statutes listed above. The fact that you know the code, and just as importantly which code it is, speaks volumes. While I take comfort in knowing the letter of the law is on my side, police in Titletown can be awful antsy. I am not in this to make waves, but I fully intend to exercise my rights where reasonable, beacuse I may as well not have the right otherwise.

The statement about Tuscaloosa is disconcerting, I don't want to be arrested pay bail and lawyer up for something that is perfectly legal. I will arm myself with the information contained on the home page, and a tape recorder in case of such an occurrence. Campus PD does house student's firearms, but it is kind of tricky to be quite honest, because the station is in the middle of campus and you must walk through Sorority Row to arrive there. Like I said (and you respected) I am just not ready to open that can of worms, but have there been incidences of possible unlawful arrest of OC'ers in the city not counting campus?

I tend to 'side' (taken figuratively of course, we're on the same side here) with Eye95 on the bicycle/ boat carry. I'm not going to get into a battle of prepositions with the legal system.

I can't stress how thankful I am for y'alls help and information, not to mention the strides you've taken to protect my rights. My head is full of new information at this time, I'll be back with more questions.

Yeah, it kinda gives you a headache at first. But then you learn how to exist in the warped world of Alabama gun law.

mdbama · Dec 22, 2010

Here's one I thought of in Winn Dixie a second ago...

As I go throughout my day, am I allowed to switch between OC and CC as I please, granted I have a CPL?

FedFirefighter · Dec 23, 2010

Of course you are, assuming you are somewhere not prohibited by law, or whatever restrictions may be on your licence. No licence needed to OC, and when you get in a vehicle or put on your jacket, that is what your CPL is for.

AL Ranger · Dec 23, 2010

MDBama, welcome and get your rear-end over to Alabama Open Cary as soon as possible to further your OC education! Another thing to point out is that since you have a CC license, you can carry one open and one concealed, if you like. You are not limited to one gun.

And in the law, 13A-11-52 is not only superseded by 13A-11-73 but it is overridden by 13A-11-55 which states the ONLY illegal carry of a pistol on premises not your own is CONCEALED carry (meaning without a license).

mdbama · Dec 23, 2010

I DON'T have my CPL yet, as a matter of fact I'm heading to WC to pick the pistol up in a minute here. I registered on AOC before I even found this place haha, they are both great resources and have prominent places on my Bookmarks bar.

I did not phrase my question even close to what I actually meant I realize. If I'm wearing my suit concealing my gun with a valid CPL and the gun is seen by an officer, am I open carrying for that instant, or am I breaking the CC laws?

eye95 · Dec 23, 2010

Whatever it is called, flashing, printing, or open carry, it is lawful.

The CPL allows you to conceal. It does not mandate concealment.

In AL you have the right to carry a firearm. That right is spelled out in the AL Constitution and clarified by AL SC ruling. The court does allow the State to regulate concealment, and the State does require you to have a license to conceal. However, the State is not allowed to tell you that you may not carry openly.

So, as long as you are not doing so deliberately or recklessly to cause public alarm, flash away.

On another note, you are allowed to transport the firearm in your car, without a license, from the place of purchase to your home. However, until you get your CPL, don't routinely transport the gun in your car. That would violate the law.

mdbama · Dec 23, 2010

Thanks eye, that is comforting. See you on AOC!

AL Ranger · Dec 23, 2010

Yeah, what Eye said!

One of the strange things in Alabama is the carry laws. It is actually legal to own a pistol, it is legal to go shoot it at a gun range. But, strictly speaking, it is illegal to transport a pistol from your home to a range. It is also, strictly speaking, illegal to transport a pistol if you plan to hunt with it or carry it while hunting. The transport of rifles or shotguns is not a problem as the law about carrying in a vehicle only applies to pistols.

eye95 · Dec 23, 2010

Here are the few exceptions that Alabama has built into the law regarding transporting firearms. Those that apply to civilians are highlighted.

Section 13A-11-74
License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person - Exceptions.

The provisions of Section 13A-11-73 shall not apply to marshals, sheriffs, prison and jail wardens and their regularly employed deputies, policemen and other law enforcement officers of any state or political subdivision thereof, or to the members of the army, navy or marine corps of the United States or of the national guard, or to the members of the national guard organized reserves or state guard organizations when on duty or going to or from duty, or to the regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state; provided, that such members are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practices, or to officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a pistol, or to any person engaged in manufacturing, repairing or dealing in pistols, or the agent or representative of such person possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of such business, or to any common carrier, except taxicabs, licensed as a common carrier, or to any person permitted by law to possess a pistol while carrying it unloaded in a secure wrapper, from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to or from a place of repair or in moving from one place of abode or business to another.
(Acts 1936, Ex. Sess., No. 82, p. 51; Code 1940, T. 14, §176; Acts 1947, No. 616, p. 463, §4; Acts 1951, No. 784, p. 1378; Code 1975, §13-6-154.)

Kirbinator · Dec 23, 2010

mdbama said:
Like I said (and you respected) I am just not ready to open that can of worms, but have there been incidences of possible unlawful arrest of OC'ers in the city not counting campus?

Unlike UAH, Auburn University, The University Of Alabama, Troy University, etc. UAB doesn't have a campus fixed by boundary lines on a plot of land. They simply purchase buildings at will and connect them together. What this means is that if you're standing on a patch of grass in the City of Birmingham, you may be violating a rule (not a law) that you were unaware of. In another other city, at any other campus, one can find the clear boundaries if campus and avoid them. Likewise with the campus of the Birmingham Federal Law Enforcement Agencies. The Post Offices, even. Furthermore, the UAB Foundation owns land under buildings not associated with UAB.

But I digress. Get your CPL, and your voice recorder. =)

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