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Thread: Is INOVA Fairfax Hospital subject to VA preemption?

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    Is INOVA Fairfax Hospital subject to VA preemption?

    Snapped a pic of this sign on the front door of the INOVA Fairfax Hospital (Women's Center). If the .jpg doesn't come through, it says, "No firearms or weapons allowed on this property." The obvious question: is INOVA FFX hospital subject to VA firearms preemption laws? I did some quick research but I haven't found anything convincing.

    http://www.inova.org/about-inova/boa...ance/index.jsp

    http://www.inova.org/about-inova/boa...stem-board.jsp

    http://newsroom.inova.org/images/74/...ity_Report.pdf

    "Inova Health System is a not-for-profit healthcare system based in Northern Virginia that consists of hospitals and other health services, including emergency- and urgent-care centers, home care, nursing homes, mental health and blood donor services, and wellness classes. Governed by a voluntary board of community members, Inova’s mission is to improve the health of the diverse community it serves through excellence in patient care, education and research. Inova provides a healthy environment for its patients, families, visitors, staff and physicians by prohibiting tobacco use on its campuses."

    Any expert opinions on the matter?

    -thanks!
    -llcoolg
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    Last edited by llcoolg; 12-21-2010 at 10:26 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by llcoolg View Post
    is INOVA FFX hospital subject to VA firearms preemption laws?
    I don't think so.. I believe it to be a private entity.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member streetdoc's Avatar
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    The INOVA Health System is not local or state government owned.
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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    I am wondering because there are some VCU classes being held up there as well if that's why the sign? I have to work up there every now and then and saw the same. Been a long time since I have seen a CLEARLY posted door unlike malls movies etc that put it in a corner 4 inches from the ground.

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Reston Hospital and several of the buildings on its campus are posted that way, as well.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    My doctors office in Reston, near the hospital JUST posted. My doctor told me I am still free to carry there since I had his permission.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ghlight=reston
    Carry On.

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    "Pre-emption" doesn't mean anything in this context. The question doesn't make any sense to me.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Many hospitals seem to be anti-gun. I guess it's good for business... more likely a victim will be harmed and require medical treatment when they are defenseless.

    If a crime victim can pull out a gun and scare a criminal away, no injured victims, no $$ for the hospital.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I guess it's good for business... more likely a victim will be harmed and require medical treatment when they are defenseless.

    If a crime victim can pull out a gun and scare a criminal away, no injured victims, no $$ for the hospital.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Many hospitals seem to be anti-gun. I guess it's good for business... more likely a victim will be harmed and require medical treatment when they are defenseless.

    If a crime victim can pull out a gun and scare a criminal away, no injured victims, no $$ for the hospital.

    TFred
    I suppose I should clarify, just for the anti-gunners who troll the site... I am kidding... mostly. I'm sure the doctors don't feel this way... Hospital administrators and bean counters... well, they don't have any oaths that I know of, so how could we ever know for sure?

    TFred

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    Hospitals have national certification standards that they must comply with. This is where this position comes from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    "Pre-emption" doesn't mean anything in this context. The question doesn't make any sense to me.
    Yeah, I probably used the wrong terminology. I was wondering if this sign the hospital admin. posted is under some authority that the admin. wished/assumed it has rather than what VA law actually says that it has (or perhaps better said, says that it doesn't have). If the hospital is a private entity and not a state/government owned/run enterprise, then their private property rights trump carry rights. I was just wonderin' since I thought that they would get the bulk of their operating budget from the state. Can't blame a guy for dreaming...

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    Unfortunately the only time you may have a problem is while you OC. I have found that many hospitals operate off of an out of sight, out mind position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by streetdoc View Post
    The INOVA Health System is not local or state government owned.
    According to the tax records, the hospital itself is owned by Fairfax County. However, INOVA is a private non-profit organization.

    Here's part of the summary from fairfaxcounty.gov:
    Owner
    Name BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FAIRFAX COUNTY,
    Mailing Address 12000 GOVERNMENT CENTER PW SUITE 533 FAIRFAX VA 22035

    Parcel
    Property Location 3300 GALLOWS RD
    Map # 0592 01 0001A
    Tax District 7T000
    District Name PROVIDENCE TRANSPORTATION
    Land Use Code Hospital & Health Facilities
    Land Area (acreage)
    Land Area (SQFT) 1,635,050
    Zoning Description (Res w/other res zonings)
    Utilities


    Legal Description
    Legal Description GALLOWS ROAD
    FAIRFAX HOSPITAL
    1564 121

    Last Refresh Date
    Data last refreshed: 23-DEC-10
    To verify anything further, we would need a copy of the lease between Fairfax County and INOVA.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Is INOVA Fairfax Hospital subject to VA preemption?

    Just wondering if anyone had any luck finding out any more about who owns the facility? I am up at Loudoun and they have their gun buster signs up as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    Just wondering if anyone had any luck finding out any more about who owns the facility? I am up at Loudoun and they have their gun buster signs up as well.
    The building is owned by Fairfax County, but it is leased to INOVA, which is a private non-profit. As such, it is under INOVA's control, not the County's. Because they are a private non-profit, INOVA does not appear to be subject to preemption.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    The building is owned by Fairfax County, but it is leased to INOVA, which is a private non-profit. As such, it is under INOVA's control, not the County's. Because they are a private non-profit, INOVA does not appear to be subject to preemption.
    Thanks to Ken Cuccinelli's Opinion http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions%...09-Greason.pdf they can get around preemption. Also, JHACO (Joint Hospital Accreditation something something) requires hospitals to be Victim Disarmament/Criminal Enterprise Enhancement zones. No accredidation, no payment from any health insurance.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Is INOVA Fairfax Hospital subject to VA preemption?

    JCAHO only spells out workplace violence policies like a lot of businesses have. This is all INOVA.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    I have been CC'ing in hospitals and health facilities for the last three months to care for a sick family member.

    Sorry, Peter, I know, I know. I am not very pround of it. Back to OC when I get to my car. My wife would just be so pissed if I was thrown out when I had promised to take care of a chore for her.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Sorry, Peter, I know, I know. I am not very pround of it. Back to OC when I get to my car. My wife would just be so pissed if I was thrown out when I had promised to take care of a chore for her.
    CC is better than NC! I even know a few scoundrels without a permit that accidentally do it on occasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by llcoolg View Post
    Snapped a pic of this sign on the front door of the INOVA Fairfax Hospital (Women's Center)
    women's center = baby stuff and............ wait for it............. domestic violence.

    they dont wont battered women worrying about their armed boyfriends/husbands/baby's daddies walking in and shooting them.

    you also have to take into consideration that hospitals take care of drugged out, mentally unstable, and down right looney people(the northern virginia mental health ward is right out back behind the new heart wing). the last thing you need is to have one of them getting their hands on a gun in the middle of a crowded ER. and if any of you have been in the FFX ER you'll know exactly how crowded it gets. they once forgot about me for 4 hours.... thank god it was just a stab wound.....

    FFX hospital is my hospital of choice(even thou they forgot about me, which i didnt mind cause the nurses are HOT!) i was born there and used to live right down the road off prosperity. they have stiched, stapled, glued and bandaged me and my brother back together many a time. i have never felt like i was at risk of being shot or even attacked with a bed pan in the 29 years i have been going there.

    and before anyone jumps on me yes i know there have been hospital shooting, like the one in LA where dude walked in and shot 3 doctors. but if you look at the majority of the shootings they were targeted attacks and happened in the parking lot. not inside, not in a patients room, not in the middle of the ER, outside in a parking lot were you are allowed to carry your gun. so put down the pitchforks and slowly step away from the keyboard and take slow deep breaths. it will be ok, your gun will be safe in your car while you check on your sick child/wife/grandparents/babies momma ext.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cptstoney View Post
    women's center = baby stuff and............ wait for it............. domestic violence.

    they dont wont battered women worrying about their armed boyfriends/husbands/baby's daddies walking in and shooting them.

    you also have to take into consideration that hospitals take care of drugged out, mentally unstable, and down right looney people(the northern virginia mental health ward is right out back behind the new heart wing). the last thing you need is to have one of them getting their hands on a gun in the middle of a crowded ER. and if any of you have been in the FFX ER you'll know exactly how crowded it gets. they once forgot about me for 4 hours.... thank god it was just a stab wound.....

    FFX hospital is my hospital of choice(even thou they forgot about me, which i didnt mind cause the nurses are HOT!) i was born there and used to live right down the road off prosperity. they have stiched, stapled, glued and bandaged me and my brother back together many a time. i have never felt like i was at risk of being shot or even attacked with a bed pan in the 29 years i have been going there.

    and before anyone jumps on me yes i know there have been hospital shooting, like the one in LA where dude walked in and shot 3 doctors. but if you look at the majority of the shootings they were targeted attacks and happened in the parking lot. not inside, not in a patients room, not in the middle of the ER, outside in a parking lot were you are allowed to carry your gun. so put down the pitchforks and slowly step away from the keyboard and take slow deep breaths. it will be ok, your gun will be safe in your car while you check on your sick child/wife/grandparents/babies momma ext.
    Boy....another 20 seconds of my life wasted reading dribble!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cptstoney View Post
    and before anyone jumps on me yes i know there have been hospital shooting, like the one in LA where dude walked in and shot 3 doctors. but if you look at the majority of the shootings they were targeted attacks and happened in the parking lot. not inside, not in a patients room, not in the middle of the ER, outside in a parking lot were you are allowed to carry your gun. so put down the pitchforks and slowly step away from the keyboard and take slow deep breaths. it will be ok, your gun will be safe in your car while you check on your sick child/wife/grandparents/babies momma ext.
    I spent a lot of time at Fairfax Hospital last week, for the birth of my daughter.

    Actually, that's not true that you can carry in the parking lot. At INOVA Fairfax, they have even posted the parking garages, which means that technically you aren't allowed to even leave it in the car. Their signs specifically say that no carry is allowed on the premises (as opposed to just in the building). Since OCDO rules prohibit advocating any illegal activity, and there is no parking lot law that covers private entities (the new one only applies to government entities), we can't advocate that someone leave their gun in their car.

    Additionally, what about someone who uses their new valet service? When my wife went into labor, we were lucky to be coming from home (and I knew in advance about the garage being posted), so I was able to plan ahead. We opted not to use the valet service (even though it was offered for free). If I we had been out and I was armed, should I have secured my gun in my car and then just handed the key to the valet? Or should I have had to run home, lock up my gun, and then go to the hospital? Or should I make my wife walk from the garage into the hospital? (In the end, they allowed me to drop her off at the door, go inside, and then return to park my car.)

    The way the law is currently structured, with the signs they have posted (and the locations they have posted them), my option was basically to forgo any form of carry once we reached the "any day now" point in her pregnancy, unless I knew I'd be able to go home before taking her to the hospital.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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