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Thread: BATFE lied to Senator Warner’s Office - We caught them!

  1. #1
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    BATFE lied to Senator Warner’s Office - We caught them!

    When Senator Warner's Office called BATFE to ask about FR Doc. 2010-31755 (collection of data on multiple sales of rifles) they were told that it was only for the Southern border States. NOT true. The Fed. Doc. does not mention any area which means it covers the entire United States and every licensed firearms dealer.

    Both Senators, Webb & Warner are now interested in why BATFE is not allowing the full 90 day comment period.

    This is crunch time. NO EMAILS. We need you to flood their offices with phone calls starting at 9AM.

    WE ARE SO CLOSE TO WINNING THIS. PLEASE don't have us lose it because you didn't take a minute to call.

    Write yourself a note, first thing this morning, to remind you to call (if you're forgetful like me).

    We can turn back BATFE and their attempt to put in this regulation.

    Don't settle for leaving a recorded message unless you must. Ask to speak to someone. If the line is busy, please, please call back.

    Senator Webb's office: 202-224-4024

    Senator Warner's office: 202-224-2023

    Dave Vann
    Co-Founder, Gunleaders.com
    Last edited by Vanns40; 12-22-2010 at 01:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    And here's what makes it even worse...

    Even if we grant them the benefit of the doubt, and believe that they weren't actually trying to sneak in a national rule instead of a "southern border" rule...

    Errors that are much smaller than this in reporting to the BATFE would get a Federally Licensed Firearms dealer thrown in jail!!!

    What a horrible double standard, even under the best of possible circumstances.

    TFred

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    Even though it isn't just the southern border states, even if it was, it still goes beyond what federal law allows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    ... it still goes beyond what federal law allows ...
    IMO this is one more case of "big brother" collecting additional data for "yet to be determined" uses.

    Once this reporting requirement is on the books (assuming it's initially applied only to border states) ... then it's only a small incremental "administrative" change to expand it to ALL states ... and then another "small incremental change" could expand it to EVERY firearm sale.

    Over just a few years, the "goal" could be achieved ... de facto national firearms registration ... while cleverly remaining below the radar through the entire process.
    Last edited by Mt Vernon .40; 12-22-2010 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Grammer

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    done

  6. #6
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    I don't think Warner's office is going to help us. His contact seems pretty uninterested in helping.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    "A just sense of our own rights and duties and the obviousness of the principle are a security that no inconveniences will be permitted to arise from repetitions of it....Our citizens have been always free to make, vend, and export arms. It is the constant occupation and livelihood of some of them. To suppress their callings, the only means perhaps of their subsistence because a war exists in foreign and distant countries, in which we have no concern, would scarcely be expected. It would be hard in principle, and impossible in practice. The law of nations, therefore, respecting the rights of those at peace, does not require from them such an internal derangement in their occupations." - Thomas Jefferson to George Hammond, May 15, 1793.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Y View Post
    I don't think Warner's office is going to help us. His contact seems pretty uninterested in helping.
    That shows that not enough folks have been calling. We can turn this around but it takes numbers. That's what they understand. CALL NOW!

  9. #9
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    JBT Chief Melson says only 4 border states

    Link: http://www.ammoland.com/2010/12/21/a...border-states/
    ATF Acting Director Announces Demand Letters for Multiple Sales of Specific Long Guns in Four Border States
    By Ken Melson, the Acting Director of ATF.
    ...
    The proposed Demand Letter, which is narrowly circumscribed to meet our objectives, will apply a similar reporting requirement to certain long guns, but with these distinct differences:
    First, the reporting requirement will apply only to FFLs doing business in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, which are major source states for crime guns seized in Mexico and traced to federal firearms licensees.
    ...
    I know that FFLs are good citizens who share ATF’s interest and commitment in keeping guns out of criminal hands. Working together we can do that without infringing on the rights of law abiding Americans.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Until an FFL holder refuses to comply, this whole argument fails.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    David Hardy says: ILLEGAL

    Second Amendment attorney: ATF’s proposed long gun ‘emergency’ regs illegal

    Further, the report claims “The regulation proposed is outside the statutory grant of authority to record information about multiple sales of firearms,” a concern Second Amendment scholar, author and attorney David T. Hardy details on his Of Arms and the Law blog:


    There are several violations of the Gun Control Act, as amended by the Firearm Owners' Protection Act. First, 18 USC §926(b) provides "The Attorney General shall give not less than ninety days public notice, and shall afford interested parties opportunity for hearing, before prescribing such rules and regulations." This is stricter than the Admin Procedure Act's general provision for a "reasonable" comment period, and it has no emergency exceptions. ATFE is only giving 30 days' notice.

    Second, the FOPA amendments were intended to cut off future requirements of direct reporting -- I say future because the existing regs (including reporting of multiple handgun sales were grandfathered in, but limited to those specific requirements. Thus far and no farther.


    Hardy’s conclusion?


    It's time to contact legislators about this, pointing out the illegality, and asking them to lodge protests with agency and with the Office of Management and Budget…
    David Hardy's blog is here.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Link: http://www.ammoland.com/2010/12/21/a...border-states/
    ATF Acting Director Announces Demand Letters for Multiple Sales of Specific Long Guns in Four Border States
    By Ken Melson, the Acting Director of ATF.
    ...
    The proposed Demand Letter, which is narrowly circumscribed to meet our objectives, will apply a similar reporting requirement to certain long guns, but with these distinct differences:
    First, the reporting requirement will apply only to FFLs doing business in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, which are major source states for crime guns seized in Mexico and traced to federal firearms licensees.
    ...
    I know that FFLs are good citizens who share ATF’s interest and commitment in keeping guns out of criminal hands. Working together we can do that without infringing on the rights of law abiding Americans.
    BS, Read FR Doc. 2010-31755. What is quoted above is simply a press release. It means nothing. The FR Doc. is the real deal and says it all. Anything else is BATFE Bravo Sierra.

    Dave Vann

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    done

  14. #14
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    Calls are helping

    Webb - (202) 224-4024
    Warner (202) 224-2023

    CALL them. They need to hear from you all loud and clear. Even if you've written, faxed, or emailed call anyway. Spread some Christmas cheer while exercising your rights and bossing around your employees (Nicely, please).

    I've spoken with 2A guys in both offices. Webb's is making noise that he will help. Keep calling.
    Warner's guy is less committal, preferring to "monitor". That's not enough so... keep calling.

    Do NOT let up.

  15. #15
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    I called both

    Please call

  16. #16
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Until an FFL holder refuses to comply, this whole argument fails.
    For the record I refuse to comply.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  17. #17
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    I called both.

    If you haven't already, please, please, please call.

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