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Thread: OC in a area posted No guns

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    OC in a area posted No guns

    Hey guys, If I am Oc'ing in a place where its posted not guns (other than fed buildings ect) could I be immediatly arrested or do I have to be asked to leave first. I would never OC in places like banks, court buildings, DMV, Post office ect, but If I'm at a mall, park, store or resturant and I neglect to see a posted sign am I just cuffed and taken away or what?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Frye View Post
    Hey guys, If I am Oc'ing in a place where its posted not guns (other than fed buildings ect) could I be immediatly arrested or do I have to be asked to leave first. I would never OC in places like banks, court buildings, DMV, Post office ect, but If I'm at a mall, park, store or resturant and I neglect to see a posted sign am I just cuffed and taken away or what?
    The general consensus and experience is that you would have no immediate risk; however, when told to leave do so immediately, particularly if informed by a LEO.

    BTW carrying in banks and DMV is not illegal by VA statute - many of us OC there regularly.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I think it might give OC a poor image if they see you OC'ing since no one could tell if you didn't see the sign or just chose to ignore it.

    People could wrongly assume we don't care about the law.

    IMO Bad idea. There are too many places where it can be done legally to jeopardize the movement by appearing to "flaunt" the law even if you did not see the sign. People could assume you were just being an arrogant gun owner especially if you knew it was posted and then waited to be asked to leave.

    My .02
    Last edited by swinokur; 12-22-2010 at 06:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The general consensus and experience is that you would have no immediate risk; however, when told to leave do so immediately, particularly if informed by a LEO.

    BTW carrying in banks and DMV is not illegal by VA statute - many of us OC there regularly.
    Thanks for you help in this matter I dont want to make anyone mad for just wanting to exercise my rights. also thanks for the info on banks and DMV, its always a pleasure to get good feedback from someone whos informed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    I think it might give OC a poor image if they see you OC'ing since no one could tell if you didn't see the sign or just chose to ignore it.

    People could wrongly assume we don't care about the law.

    IMO Bad idea. There are too many places where it can be done legally to jeopardize the movement by appearing to "flaunt" the law even if you did not see the sign. People could assume you were just being an arrogant gun owner especially if you knew it was posted and then waited to be asked to leave.

    My .02
    Nope, Not trying to be some sort of rebel at all. I just find myself standing outside the door of every place my wife and I go for five minutes trying to see if there is a no gun posting on the door glass somewhere. Its driving my wife crazy but I just want to put OC in a good light and be responsible.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I stray away from many on this issue. You can be arrested on sight if the sign is worded correctly and properly posted. No other warning is needed.

    It's also plain bad manners to go on private property and deliberately break the rules the owner has set.

    You have another thread here you might want to finish up before asking another question in another direction. I think you were asked what part of VB the problem with your son took place.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I stray away from many on this issue. You can be arrested on sight if the sign is worded correctly and properly posted. No other warning is needed.

    It's also plain bad manners to go on private property and deliberately break the rules the owner has set.

    You have another thread here you might want to finish up before asking another question in another direction. I think you were asked what part of VB the problem with your son took place.
    Very good catch Peter - I missed the connection.

    There are specific questions asked in that thread and NONE to date answered.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...seized-handgun.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-22-2010 at 06:46 PM. Reason: modified
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Frye View Post
    Nope, Not trying to be some sort of rebel at all. I just find myself standing outside the door of every place my wife and I go for five minutes trying to see if there is a no gun posting on the door glass somewhere. Its driving my wife crazy but I just want to put OC in a good light and be responsible.
    Its considered poor manners around here to ignore a question or three when folks are trying to help you out. How about that amplifying info on your son's "incident" in VB?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Its considered poor manners around here to ignore a question or three when folks are trying to help you out. How about that amplifying info on your son's "incident" in VB?
    At Peter Nap's advice, I'm backing off of issuing judgment on this issue.

    BUT...

    There is a trend:
    1) Lawsuits about open carriers getting arrested by FIVE-O
    2) Experiences in VA Beach
    3) An arrest of some sort by VA Beach FIVE-O
    4) Inquiries about arrests concerning posted trespassing
    5) Still no answers or mitigating explanations to the previous asked questions


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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The general consensus and experience is that you would have no immediate risk; however, when told to leave do so immediately, particularly if informed by a LEO.
    True. However if I *knew* such a place was covered under preemption and the sign was illegal, I would make no changes to my appearance to cover an openly carried firearm.

    The law you're looking for is: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-119


    FYI, I OC in my bank all the time. So does Dennis O'Connor
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The general consensus and experience is that you would have no immediate risk; however, when told to leave do so immediately, particularly if informed by a LEO.

    BTW carrying in banks and DMV is not illegal by VA statute - many of us OC there regularly.
    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    True. However if I *knew* such a place was covered under preemption and the sign was illegal, I would make no changes to my appearance to cover an openly carried firearm.

    The law you're looking for is: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-119


    FYI, I OC in my bank all the time. So does Dennis O'Connor
    Was referring to primarily to private property. I will always honor a property owner's wishes - will I try to change their thinking? - of course. Preemption only applying to public/government control entities/facilities.

    Still even on such municipally controlled/owned entities, one may be called upon to make a rapid decision as to whether to "hold court" there (on the spot) or to do battle from a safer distance and possibly more effective vantage point.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member sst0185's Avatar
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    Guess he just doesn't want to answer.


    If a business is clearly posted I don't go there.

    I will not stand there for 5 minutes looking either.

    Reminder to OP don't mention posting signs if you are asked to leave a business
    that has no sign.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Very good catch Peter - I missed the connection.

    There are specific questions asked in that thread and NONE to date answered.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...eized-handgun.
    And yet he remains strangely silent on that thread Grapeshot...In the Intell World, that is called an "Indicator".

    Mr. Frye reminds me of that other poster from Virginia Beach that kept asking, "Can I carry here? Can I carry there?"

    I'm willing to help him out if he's willing to answer those few, very basic, questions.

  14. #14
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I OC in SunTrust bank on a regular basis and have never had a problem. The tellers and bank officers greet me cordially every time I walk through the door. I've seen a few customers go "bugeyed" when they noticed my left hip but none have ever commented. Perhaps they were 'put at ease' by the bank employees' non-attitude.

    I've also been in Bank of America many times while my family conducts their bank business. No problems there, either.

    Sometimes I feel it is more advantageous tactically to CC rather than OC. Sometimes I cover up when shopping in places "away from my neighborhood" or places unfamiliar to me. Large, crowded places are good places to "be invisible" rather than "highly visible" unless I'm in a group.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    I can understand that a person might feel uncomfortable discussing the facts of a pending criminal case openly. I hope everyone understands that anyone can send me an email or pm without putting the facts on the world-wide-web (though there's no guarantee of actual confidentiality since messages do go through lots of different routers on the way over which neither of us has any control). The worst that could happen is that I'd be too busy to answer really quickly. Well, I guess the worst that could happen is that I'd say "you've got a really serious problem, and you need to give me too much money to take care of it for you."
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    OT

    Merry Christmas USER! Thanks for being out there.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    ... Well, I guess the worst that could happen is that I'd say "you've got a really serious problem, and you need to give me too much money to take care of it for you."
    In the same camp as "you can't afford to not hire a good lawyer...", is there really a such thing as "too much money" to take care of a "really serious problem?"

    I guess it depends on how much you value your time on the "outside."

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    In the same camp as "you can't afford to not hire a good lawyer...", is there really a such thing as "too much money" to take care of a "really serious problem?"

    I guess it depends on how much you value your time on the "outside."

    TFred
    Been on the inside looking out - course I was being paid to do it.
    Always made me appreciate home all the more.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member celticredneck's Avatar
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    Personally, I respect the right of any business owner to post his property. However, I do feel that there should be a standard for such signs, and that they should be displayed at every entrance. My local Wachovia bank has small "no gun signs( Picture of a pistol with a circle and line) posted about waist high at the door. It isn't much larger than a quarter. From what I've been told, the main entrances of Southpark mall are posted, but there is no signage at the entrance where the Regal Stadium 16 theater is located. The way I currently understand the law, someone could post a business an a no carry gun with a sign made with a piece of cardboard and a crayon written message.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck View Post
    . The way I currently understand the law, someone could post a business an a no carry gun with a sign made with a piece of cardboard and a crayon written message.
    True, or even with no signage at all. The code is silent when it comes to sign requirements in locations where firearms are prohibited.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    True, or even with no signage at all. The code is silent when it comes to sign requirements in locations where firearms are prohibited.
    And I would prefer it stay that way. See no benefit to giving potentially more legal authority to such signage.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    And I would prefer it stay that way. See no benefit to giving potentially more legal authority to such signage.
    QTF

    I think the reasonability bit gives a lot of leeway to the gunowner... of course I guess that gets to be determined by a judge if it comes to that.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    It is Legal to Open Carry in EVERY Public Building Owned by The CommonWealth of Virginia AND its SubDivsions, including Independent Cities, except: 1. CourtHouses, per Virginia Code 18.2-283.1; 2. Air Port Terminals, per Virginia Code 18.2-287.01; AND 3. Schools, K-12, per Virginia Code 18.2-308.1.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    It is Legal to Open Carry in EVERY Public Building Owned by The CommonWealth of Virginia AND its SubDivsions, including Independent Cities, except: 1. CourtHouses, per Virginia Code 18.2-283.1; 2. Air Port Terminals, per Virginia Code 18.2-287.01; AND 3. Schools, K-12, per Virginia Code 18.2-308.1.
    Well kinda, sorta, mostly.

    Not, jails, DOC facilities, secure areas of police stations - then there is the yet to be resolved issue of state universities. Also cannot carry in the GA Building or Capital except with a permit.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  25. #25
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    True, or even with no signage at all. The code is silent when it comes to sign requirements in locations where firearms are prohibited.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    And I would prefer it stay that way. See no benefit to giving potentially more legal authority to such signage.
    I agree very much here... we don't want this to become a new "gun law". It's much better to leave it as it is now, a simple trespass issue.

    TFred

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