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Thread: Clark County Handgun Reg. Loophole?

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    Regular Member Shufei's Avatar
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    Wink Clark County Handgun Reg. Loophole?

    I just acquired my first owned firearm: a black powder Remington 1858 New Model Army reproduction with a modified 12 inch barrel. I'm not squeemish about black powder and will be only too happy to open carry this, my weapon of choice for various reasons. (When I can make/find a holster long enough, that is!)

    Having the misfortune of my town being inside of Clark County, I was concerned about the handgun registration. However, I may have found a loophole in this for those of us with large handguns. NRS 244.364 amends the Clark ordinance to define:
    (b) “Firearm capable of being concealed” includes all firearms having a barrel less than 12 inches in length.
    (c) “Pistol” means a firearm capable of being concealed that is intended to be aimed and fired with one hand.
    The county ordinance in question, 12.04.110, refers to "pistols", which are thus defined as concealable, I.E. of barrels shorter than 12 inches. Thus, my handgun is exempt from the need to register, as it is not "concealable" and hence is not a "pistol". It is thus a handgun but not one requiring CC registation.

    This is my working reasoning and I'd appreciate any more experienced feedback. My weapon is right on 12 inches to the barrel, perhaps a bit more but not much. Would a clearly ammended copy of the relevant statutes be enough to vouchsafe my carry into the city? Are there any other relevant laws I've not anticipated here in relation to the ordinance?

    Thanks!

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    You got alot to learn if you think it cant be concealed. There is plenty of video out there of guys hiding AR and AKs and you cant tell they have them.

    And you also have alot to learn if you think in the modern day a black powder pistol is a good carry gun.

    I smell a troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    You got alot to learn if you think it cant be concealed. There is plenty of video out there of guys hiding AR and AKs and you cant tell they have them.

    And you also have alot to learn if you think in the modern day a black powder pistol is a good carry gun.

    I smell a troll.
    Steve, UNDER THE LAW, a firearm with barrel longer than 12" is NOT "concealable" -- there's the definition right there. Thus, a statute which requires registration of concealable firearms does not apply to it. It's the letter of the law which counts here.

    I would also consider a black powder pistol a suitable carry gun, under certain circumstances. You have to weigh all factors. If I ever needed a gun, I'd rather have his pistol than a .380, wouldn't you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Steve, UNDER THE LAW, a firearm with barrel longer than 12" is NOT "concealable" -- there's the definition right there. Thus, a statute which requires registration of concealable firearms does not apply to it. It's the letter of the law which counts here.
    Exactly. The definition by statute is the applicable portion, not whether "someone CAN conceal something."

    Quote Originally Posted by DVC
    I would also consider a black powder pistol a suitable carry gun, under certain circumstances. You have to weigh all factors. If I ever needed a gun, I'd rather have his pistol than a .380, wouldn't you?
    Personally I would not rather have the black powder, but that is mostly a matter of my personal preference, and my inexperience with black powder.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Shufei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    You got alot to learn if you think it cant be concealed. There is plenty of video out there of guys hiding AR and AKs and you cant tell they have them.
    Please work on your reading skills. I was crystal clear that the logistics of concealment are utterly irrelevant to the needful topic.

    My concern was and is the LEGAL definition of "pistol" under the Clark registration ordinance, which seems to be defined by state law as a handgun with a barrel under 12 inches.

    Your opinion of my choice of firearm is likewise irrelevant, and quickly forgettable.

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    Regular Member Shufei's Avatar
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    DVC and wrightme, thank you for your quick and courteous input on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Steve, UNDER THE LAW, a firearm with barrel longer than 12" is NOT "concealable" -- there's the definition right there. Thus, a statute which requires registration of concealable firearms does not apply to it. It's the letter of the law which counts here.
    The Clark County ordinance's definitions (12.04.010) agree with those in the state statute (NRS 244.364), so I feel that my legally non-"pistol" handgun is exempt from registration in the county. My question at this point is if Metro occasionally demands blue cards from open carriers of longer handguns or even rifles? Does anyone have experience on this?

    (By the way, I'm a her, not him.) No, I know very little about firearms, but know enough to know what I want and need, and now have it. I'm just a lady intent on exercising my 2nd amendment rights in a safe and legally compliant manner, especially when I be compelled to visit the city.

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Steve, UNDER THE LAW, a firearm with barrel longer than 12" is NOT "concealable" -- there's the definition right there. Thus, a statute which requires registration of concealable firearms does not apply to it. It's the letter of the law which counts here.

    I would also consider a black powder pistol a suitable carry gun, under certain circumstances. You have to weigh all factors. If I ever needed a gun, I'd rather have his pistol than a .380, wouldn't you?
    I said nothing about the law only that it can be concealed. And if it can be concealed the rogue cops of klark county will try very hard to jack you up on it.

    And no I would not take a BP over a .380. I might if the BP was converted to a centerfire cylinder to fire modern ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shufei View Post
    DVC and wrightme, thank you for your quick and courteous input on this.



    The Clark County ordinance's definitions (12.04.010) agree with those in the state statute (NRS 244.364), so I feel that my legally non-"pistol" handgun is exempt from registration in the county. My question at this point is if Metro occasionally demands blue cards from open carriers of longer handguns or even rifles? Does anyone have experience on this?

    (By the way, I'm a her, not him.) No, I know very little about firearms, but know enough to know what I want and need, and now have it. I'm just a lady intent on exercising my 2nd amendment rights in a safe and legally compliant manner, especially when I be compelled to visit the city.

    Thanks.
    You have a lot to learn. How fas can you draw and fire that single action? How fast can you reload if needed? Why would you need to reload isnt 5 or 6 hots enough? Maybe if you dont have a chain fire.
    A BP as a carry pistol for anyone who has no clue about firearms is just asking for issues.
    Tell you what my very kind and lovely wife would be happy to take you to the range. Let you try some of her modern firearms and learn something.

    I have BP myself I like it. As a carry gun when there are better choices for the same money? No way.

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    Regular Member Shufei's Avatar
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    Vegassteve, why do you insist on obtusely condescending though opinions for which I have zero interest and are manifestly OFF TOPIC? Your assumptions about my weapon's intended use and circumstances of deployment are IRRELEVANT, i.e., none of your business.

    My sole question was regarding the LAW and its IMPLEMENTATION. I feel I've been quite clear on this.

    I thank anyone who would actually address the issue: experience with and problematics of registration and OC of a long handgun (legally NOT a pistol) by a resident of Clark in that county.

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    Why you are trying to get around the law is beyond me, but you could try that. However, if Metro doesn't agree they can and will take you weapon and hold you. If you have the money for the lawyers and the many years to devote to your case being tied up in litigation then by all means go for it.

    Why you would carry a BP weapon is beyond me and makes no sense from a tactical standpoint. I just hope you don't get into a gunfight with it.

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    One thing to keep in mind is that even if cops don't know about the 12 inch barrel limit, they can only cite you if you give them more information than required.

    For example, if you aren't a resident of this county, there is no requirement to have a registered firearm. Simply stating your name and not where you live, the officer would have no way to develop probable cause that you were in fact a resident of Clark County.

    Furthermore, even as a resident, you have 72 hours from the time you take ownership of a pistol to get it registered. Unless you tell them you've had it for longer than 72 hours, again, the burden of proof is on the officer to establish probable cause that you have in fact owned that weapon longer than 72 hours.

    I'm not suggesting you ignore the law, but in case you accidentally find yourself in this situation, or in the event the cops are clueless, just keeping your mouth shut is the safest way to avoid any charges for failing to register.

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    Regular Member Shufei's Avatar
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    Again, Dangerfish, I'm utterly uninterested in assumptions on tactics or my whys. No one is trying to "get around" the law, let alone get into a shoot out. This is simply an issue of if the law even applies; evidently it does not. Generally, the consensus seems to be that OC people are unhappy with the registration; the 12 inch rule may raise interesting issues for some of them. Registering larger handguns may be like registering a rifle: beyond the scope of the ordinance.

    Thanks, Tim, those are good and pertinent dimensions to consider. I knew that residents of other counties do not need a blue card to OC in Clark; there are some pretty interesting threads mentioning that effect on this site. The operative issue in a conundrum with PD would indeed be their ignorance of the law. (I read about the poor fellow at Costco; the Metro do seem like a crowd to be encountered gingerly.) You're probably right that in all such cases, personal discretion in speech is best! But perhaps carrying a copy of the statutes, with the definitions circled, would help? I take it that LVPD don't cotton to folks from elsewhere carrying who have no blue card, but they must run into such exceptions occassionally... For example, what about rifles?

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    So what's the deal here? Do you live in klark county? If not the whole blue card is of no need for you. And since you claim to understand the law you would know that long guns need no blue card. Again if you are a resuden of klark metro will more than likely jack you up for that gun not having a blue card. Are they right? Well it seems not. But like was already stated are you in a position to fight it?

    None of s gave any interest in getting in a gunfight but we carry just in case. You stated you had no experience yet want carry a outdated firearm that you don't seem to truly understand. If you can't answer those questions I posed then you need training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    You have a lot to learn. How fas can you draw and fire that single action? How fast can you reload if needed? Why would you need to reload isnt 5 or 6 hots enough? Maybe if you dont have a chain fire.
    A BP as a carry pistol for anyone who has no clue about firearms is just asking for issues.
    Tell you what my very kind and lovely wife would be happy to take you to the range. Let you try some of her modern firearms and learn something.

    I have BP myself I like it. As a carry gun when there are better choices for the same money? No way.
    First, you can reload a Remington-type revolver in about 3 seconds -- release the ramrod and lower it slightly, yank the cylinder pin forward, drop out the fired cylinder, drop in a loaded cylinder, ram the pin home, secure the ramrod and go back to work.

    Second, the real question is what the primary interest is. If that is to have a defensive weapon, yet dodge the laws which affect modern pistols, then a New Army is an excellent option.

    While we have better firearms now, don't forget that black powder was THE military small-arms propellant until after World War I, and did a good job for hundreds of years. Your .30-06, .45cal Colt, .22 Long Rifle, .38 Special and 7mm Mauser rounds were all developed for black powder -- the only smokeless powder issue firearms in WWI were the 1911 and the P-08 Luger.

    A .44 New Army is powerful enough to reliably drive a bullet through the skull case of a cavalry horse (the reason that the .44 was developed for the Army). At defensive range, it certainly meets Rule One ("Bring enough gun"). It is significantly more powerful than a 9mm, much less a .380.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shufei View Post
    For example, what about rifles?
    To quote my older son, who was 5 years old at the time, I carry a pistol because a rifle won't fit in the holster.

    Carrying a rifle in town would probably get you arrested for brandishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerfish View Post
    Why you are trying to get around the law is beyond me
    A responsible adult is morally required to "try to get around" any law which is immoral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    So what's the deal here? Do you live in klark county? If not the whole blue card is of no need for you. And since you claim to understand the law you would know that long guns need no blue card. Again if you are a resuden of klark metro will more than likely jack you up for that gun not having a blue card. Are they right? Well it seems not. But like was already stated are you in a position to fight it?

    None of s gave any interest in getting in a gunfight but we carry just in case. You stated you had no experience yet want carry a outdated firearm that you don't seem to truly understand. If you can't answer those questions I posed then you need training.
    If you look at her post and if you are familiar with the Clark County boundary it is obvious she is in Clark County. Vegassteve I believe you have a lot to learn on how to get your point across politely. You can post what may be correct information or opinion in a way a person will disagree never to be heard from or, in a way the person will disagree maybe learn additional information and become a strong additional supporter of open carry. We have seen several posters never to be heard from after being hammered by a post they made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    If you look at her post and if you are familiar with the Clark County boundary it is obvious she is in Clark County. Vegassteve I believe you have a lot to learn on how to get your point across politely. You can post what may be correct information or opinion in a way a person will disagree never to be heard from or, in a way the person will disagree maybe learn additional information and become a strong additional supporter of open carry. We have seen several posters never to be heard from after being hammered by a post they made.
    I can see she said klark, but in later post that comes into question. I have in the past bent over backwards for folks. And started doing so here until the op made the decision that it was the right and best gun for her. As a new carrier and a new shooter it is not. You or I may be good at swapping cylinders but is she? What if the cap falls off? chain fire although rare happens. What then? I want to hear her answers.

    Plus as I said my lovely wife is happy to take someone sooting and try different guns out.

    As far as trying to dodge the laws. Go ahead hope you have the cash time and lawyer to do it, because if they dont shoot first she will get to at least see court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    I can see she said klark, but in later post that comes into question. I have in the past bent over backwards for folks. And started doing so here until the op made the decision that it was the right and best gun for her. As a new carrier and a new shooter it is not. You or I may be good at swapping cylinders but is she? What if the cap falls off? chain fire although rare happens. What then? I want to hear her answers.

    Plus as I said my lovely wife is happy to take someone sooting and try different guns out.

    As far as trying to dodge the laws. Go ahead hope you have the cash time and lawyer to do it, because if they dont shoot first she will get to at least see court.
    Fair enough, however about dodging the law and as you say “hope, you have the cash.” I would assume you is referring to me? Not sure where you thought, I was referring to law dodging. I personally have to be very careful when it comes to mixing it up with the law. An arrest even if dropped will mean an end to my 35 + year job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    Fair enough, however about dodging the law and as you say “hope, you have the cash.” I would assume you is referring to me? Not sure where you thought, I was referring to law dodging. I personally have to be very careful when it comes to mixing it up with the law. An arrest even if dropped will mean an end to my 35 + year job.
    No I am talking about the OP wanting to not get a blue card. While we may all agree that it might not be needed the klark county cops may disagree with her. And will try to charge her. Do I know that for a fact? Nope, just based on the history of this department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    No I am talking about the OP wanting to not get a blue card. While we may all agree that it might not be needed the klark county cops may disagree with her. And will try to charge her. Do I know that for a fact? Nope, just based on the history of this department.
    I think the wording of that "Code" "Over 12" " is a enough, to keep her safe.
    However if your Klark County Metro is of the mind to "Bust" lawful carry they would do it anyway,
    just to razzz and Infringe on our rights.

    We need all the OC people we can get, Modern guns BP shooters ECT.
    We also need to stand together, and help in this freedom fight for our Liberty !

    PS ! Marry Christmas ! Robin47

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Exactly. The definition by statute is the applicable portion, not whether "someone CAN conceal something."

    Personally I would not rather have the black powder, but that is mostly a matter of my personal preference, and my inexperience with black powder.
    A black powder revolver beats a rock, sharp stick, a knife or a kick in the tail with a frozen boot when it comes to a self defense situation. Yes, a 1911 or a 19 round Glock would be better but I would rather not be looking down the barrel of any of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by p.publius View Post
    A black powder revolver beats a rock, sharp stick, a knife or a kick in the tail with a frozen boot when it comes to a self defense situation. Yes, a 1911 or a 19 round Glock would be better but I would rather not be looking down the barrel of any of them.
    Right On Bro ! Robin47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    You have a lot to learn. How fas can you draw and fire that single action? How fast can you reload if needed? Why would you need to reload isnt 5 or 6 hots enough? Maybe if you dont have a chain fire.
    A BP as a carry pistol for anyone who has no clue about firearms is just asking for issues.
    Tell you what my very kind and lovely wife would be happy to take you to the range. Let you try some of her modern firearms and learn something.

    I have BP myself I like it. As a carry gun when there are better choices for the same money? No way.
    I can unload my 45LC Ruger Vaquero from the hip hitting a 9 inch paper plate at chest level at 30 feet 6 out of 6 times in 2.6 sec. 7 out of 10 times, its` been timed. If a 45 round does not stop the one to six bad guys, it will at least slow them down enough for me to spend the next six sec. to reload, if there happens to be more then six of them, then I guess I kill the one that looks to be in charge and hope the rest of them flee like the cowards that most bad guys are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shufei View Post
    (By the way, I'm a her, not him.) No, I know very little about firearms, but know enough to know what I want and need, and now have it. I'm just a lady intent on exercising my 2nd amendment rights in a safe and legally compliant manner, especially when I be compelled to visit the city.
    Thanks.
    How old a her, and how large? If you are, for instance, a small Asian grandmother, you have special considerations for what pistol to carry and how to use it, compared to, say, a member of the college lady wrestling team.

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