Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Locked open slide in a holster?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    PRK, East County San Diego
    Posts
    262

    Question Locked open slide in a holster?

    Maybe this has already been postulated but i could not find it with search.
    I was thinking on my drive in to work today (1 hour with no traffic) about UOC and LUCC and the possibility of mix of the 2 popped in my head.
    I saw in a few LUCC videos that they would leave the pistol in the case with a locked open slide to speed up the draw and load procedure.
    One of the drawbacks of UOC is the time it takes to load, rack, aim, and fire. I know there are videos of people doing that in 2 seconds but not everyone is a crack shot like that.
    What if you made a holster out of kydex that was formed around your pistol in the locked open slide position. This would make loading and firing even faster and it would also most likely negate many e-checks and panicked populous.
    Would the benefits you gain by doing this be outweighed by the fact that BG's would know without a doubt you are not loaded for bear.
    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sacramento, California, USA
    Posts
    328
    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    Maybe this has already been postulated but i could not find it with search.
    I was thinking on my drive in to work today (1 hour with no traffic) about UOC and LUCC and the possibility of mix of the 2 popped in my head.
    I saw in a few LUCC videos that they would leave the pistol in the case with a locked open slide to speed up the draw and load procedure.
    One of the drawbacks of UOC is the time it takes to load, rack, aim, and fire. I know there are videos of people doing that in 2 seconds but not everyone is a crack shot like that.
    What if you made a holster out of kydex that was formed around your pistol in the locked open slide position. This would make loading and firing even faster and it would also most likely negate many e-checks and panicked populous.
    Would the benefits you gain by doing this be outweighed by the fact that BG's would know without a doubt you are not loaded for bear.
    Thoughts?
    I don't care for an open slide simply because it's also open to the elements. Dust, particles, whatever

  3. #3
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    PRK, East County San Diego
    Posts
    262
    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
    I don't care for an open slide simply because it's also open to the elements. Dust, particles, whatever
    If you made the kydex holster then you could make it cover however much of the action you wanted correct?
    Just brainstorming here.
    Shift the paradigm! Think outside the box! Additional motivational cliché!

  4. #4
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    912
    Carry how you wish, just adhere to the law.

    Some pros to carrying slide-open:
    1) One less step should you need to "L" the firearm.
    2) Easy to check for 12031(e) compliance.

    Some cons to carrying slide-open:
    1) Allows dust/dirt/debris to get into the firearm.
    2) Obviously shows firearm is unloaded.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Rich Keagy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    126
    Perhaps I lead a sheltered life, but I can't imagine much dirt and debris might get inside my gun in daily wear.
    I don't live in combat conditions.

  6. #6
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Orange County, California, USA
    Posts
    912
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Keagy View Post
    Perhaps I lead a sheltered life, but I can't imagine much dirt and debris might get inside my gun in daily wear.
    I don't live in combat conditions.
    Neither do I, but I ride while UOCing. You'd be amazed how much cleaning one has to do after a ride to Riverside and back to the OC.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  7. #7
    Regular Member JJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    East Contra Costa County, California, ,
    Posts
    213

    I have seen this done

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    Maybe this has already been postulated but i could not find it with search.
    I was thinking on my drive in to work today (1 hour with no traffic) about UOC and LUCC and the possibility of mix of the 2 popped in my head.
    I saw in a few LUCC videos that they would leave the pistol in the case with a locked open slide to speed up the draw and load procedure.
    One of the drawbacks of UOC is the time it takes to load, rack, aim, and fire. I know there are videos of people doing that in 2 seconds but not everyone is a crack shot like that.
    What if you made a holster out of kydex that was formed around your pistol in the locked open slide position. This would make loading and firing even faster and it would also most likely negate many e-checks and panicked populous.
    Would the benefits you gain by doing this be outweighed by the fact that BG's would know without a doubt you are not loaded for bear.
    Thoughts?

    I have seen a couple people carry like this.

    My Glock 20 will fit in both holsters I use (Fobus paddle and Blackhawk Serpa Level 2) with the slide locked open.

    I prefer to keep the BG's guessing and keep my slide closed and an empty mag in the well.......

  8. #8
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    PRK, East County San Diego
    Posts
    262
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ View Post
    I have seen a couple people carry like this.

    My Glock 20 will fit in both holsters I use (Fobus paddle and Blackhawk Serpa Level 2) with the slide locked open.

    I prefer to keep the BG's guessing and keep my slide closed and an empty mag in the well.......
    Cool i didn't know if they had any holsters that would hold it either way.
    I can see the pros and cons for each of them. Maybe the best bet is to work on muscle memory drills of drawing, dropping mag, inserting loaded mag, rack, aim, fire.
    Snap caps are going to get a workout.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  9. #9
    Regular Member Lawful Aim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    129
    Wouldn't you rather clean your gun a little more often and have the quickest load/firing position possible?

    Correct me if I am wrong; In most armed confrontations the BG has drawn before you have. That's how you know he is a BG. He either already knows you are armed and has drawn on you or he doesn't know you are armed and is focused on his evil task at hand.

    If the BG is focused on his task and you are not in a position to run/get away then you are going to want the quickest load/fire position possible. After inserting the mag, why have it necessary to take your hand away from a steady firing position and use up what could be critical milliseconds?

    If the BG does see that you are armed, with the slide open or not he is either going to drop his plans or target you before you are able to draw. In either case, what difference does it make as to the position of the slide. Unless you fear for your life to the extent that you feel that you must at least attempt (some how) to get a shot off. In that case you are SURELY going to want the quickest load/fire setup.
    The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it. -Albert Einstein
    Liberty that was diminished in increments has never been restored by the same. -Lawful Aim
    One who compromises in steps toward freedom will always be compromising. -Lawful Aim
    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams

  10. #10
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    SoCal, , USA
    Posts
    979
    If you're using what I would consider the 'best' method to chamber a round in a high stress environment - I'd estimate the time difference between a closed slide and an open slide at maybe 250 milliseconds faster on slide open.

    I suppose its mildly subjective, but I think everyone should be sure to be training with gross motorskills. i.e. always use the slide to chamber a round. The last thing you want to be doing in a high stress situation is fishing for the slide stop.

    I just did a couple dozen test runs...I'm actually slower with an holstered open slide. My bet is I'm slower due to the 'strangeness' of it an lack of muscle memory.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
    Posts
    1,413
    Hi folks-

    Visiting from the NV thread where we don't have to deal with this UOC challenge...or the "high capacity magazine" idiocy or...well you get the idea.

    Anyway, I just bought a couple of 10 round magazines for my CA trip and the question I had relates to this whole slide question.

    In most of the world, "unloaded" means no round in the chamber. I'm assuming that's not the case in CA? Otherwise why wouldn't you throw a loaded magazine into the weapon, pull the slide back, and lock it? That way, you can unholster and hit the slide release at the same time, and have a loaded weapon ready to go with a single hand.

    Thanks,
    Tim

  12. #12
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    PRK, East County San Diego
    Posts
    262
    Quote Originally Posted by timf343 View Post
    Hi folks-

    Visiting from the NV thread where we don't have to deal with this UOC challenge...or the "high capacity magazine" idiocy or...well you get the idea.

    Anyway, I just bought a couple of 10 round magazines for my CA trip and the question I had relates to this whole slide question.

    In most of the world, "unloaded" means no round in the chamber. I'm assuming that's not the case in CA? Otherwise why wouldn't you throw a loaded magazine into the weapon, pull the slide back, and lock it? That way, you can unholster and hit the slide release at the same time, and have a loaded weapon ready to go with a single hand.

    Thanks,
    Tim
    No loaded magazine inserted in the firearm. You can have an empty mag in the gun or none at all but don't put an empty mag in your pocket. Loose ammo or a revolver speed loader is ok. Loaded magazines must also be carried openly.
    Watch out for the magical 1000' School zones.
    Read the first sticky in the CA forum. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ry-Information
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  13. #13
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ View Post
    I have seen a couple people carry like this.

    My Glock 20 will fit in both holsters I use (Fobus paddle and Blackhawk Serpa Level 2) with the slide locked open.

    I prefer to keep the BG's guessing and keep my slide closed and an empty mag in the well.......
    +1 The appearance of a "loaded" gun as a deterrent to me seems more important than an extra half or whole second advantage. As for now I would think most BG's dont know about CA gun laws and dont care, it doesnt apply to them. They are more likely concerned with victims and whether they can fight back lethally or not.

    Slide open versus slide closed with mag in may embolden some BG they can beat your draw. JMHO.

    Also if they think yours is loaded and try for it, you know for sure its not loaded, but the perps weapon is most assuredly loaded. That can be useful in close HTH tactical situations.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    Maybe this has already been postulated but i could not find it with search.
    I was thinking on my drive in to work today (1 hour with no traffic) about UOC and LUCC and the possibility of mix of the 2 popped in my head.
    I saw in a few LUCC videos that they would leave the pistol in the case with a locked open slide to speed up the draw and load procedure.
    One of the drawbacks of UOC is the time it takes to load, rack, aim, and fire. I know there are videos of people doing that in 2 seconds but not everyone is a crack shot like that.
    What if you made a holster out of kydex that was formed around your pistol in the locked open slide position. This would make loading and firing even faster and it would also most likely negate many e-checks and panicked populous.
    Would the benefits you gain by doing this be outweighed by the fact that BG's would know without a doubt you are not loaded for bear.
    Thoughts?

    .....One thing you might consider is that carrying with the slide open increases the lengthwise dimension of your handgun while in the holster. This increased length may cause additional discomfort as your handgun digs into your side or gets snagged on things you might brush up against.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    PRK, East County San Diego
    Posts
    262
    Quote Originally Posted by caskydiver View Post
    .....One thing you might consider is that carrying with the slide open increases the lengthwise dimension of your handgun while in the holster. This increased length may cause additional discomfort as your handgun digs into your side or gets snagged on things you might brush up against.
    This post was just brainstorming. I agree as well that the deterent factor of a closed slide empty mag in outweighs the time advantage of open slide empty magwell.
    I figure a BG might think i am cop/agent/border patrol whatever. I'd rather deter a BG than comfort the sheeple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    +1 The appearance of a "loaded" gun as a deterrent to me seems more important than an extra half or whole second advantage. As for now I would think most BG's dont know about CA gun laws and dont care, it doesnt apply to them. They are more likely concerned with victims and whether they can fight back lethally or not.

    Slide open versus slide closed with mag in may embolden some BG they can beat your draw. JMHO.

    Also if they think yours is loaded and try for it, you know for sure its not loaded, but the perps weapon is most assuredly loaded. That can be useful in close HTH tactical situations.
    +1 i agree. I carry closed slide, empty mag in.
    Last edited by Born2Lose; 01-06-2011 at 09:56 AM.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  16. #16
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Rosamond, California, USA
    Posts
    1,865
    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    No loaded magazine inserted in the firearm. You can have an empty mag in the gun or none at all but don't put an empty mag in your pocket. Loose ammo or a revolver speed loader is ok. Loaded magazines must also be carried openly.
    Watch out for the magical 1000' School zones.
    Read the first sticky in the CA forum. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ry-Information
    An empty mag in your pocket is just fine. People v. Hale has the following: "In our opinion concealment of an essential component of a visible weapon, when done in such a fashion as to make the weapon readily available for use as a firearm, presents a threat to public order comparable to concealment of the entire firearm and falls within the prohibition of section 12025."

    An empty magazine does not meet the definition of "in such a fashion as to make the weapon readily available for use as a firearm", and thus does not violate 12025.

    A full magazine on the other hand does meet the definition and if concealed could get you a concealed weapon charge.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    PRK, East County San Diego
    Posts
    262
    Quote Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
    An empty mag in your pocket is just fine. People v. Hale has the following: "In our opinion concealment of an essential component of a visible weapon, when done in such a fashion as to make the weapon readily available for use as a firearm, presents a threat to public order comparable to concealment of the entire firearm and falls within the prohibition of section 12025."

    An empty magazine does not meet the definition of "in such a fashion as to make the weapon readily available for use as a firearm", and thus does not violate 12025.

    A full magazine on the other hand does meet the definition and if concealed could get you a concealed weapon charge.
    I've read on multiple sites including this one that the magazine on a semi auto is considered an integral part of the pistol and can't be concealed.
    Here's a quote and a link from the sticky at the top of this forum.
    I'd rather not test the theory.
    http://www.californiaopencarry.org/faq.html

    I've heard concealed magazines are illegal. Is that true?

    While there is no code that supports this, there was an appellate case in 1974, People v. Hale, that ruled this way. It ruled that although the firearm in question was not concealed, the magazine was, and that only partial concealment is still concealment, and that the magazine was an "essential component" of the firearm. The logic is tortured beyond belief, but it currently could be used as a persuasive precedent in court. One way to avoid this pitfall is to carry your magazines in belt holsters, so that they match the 12025(f) language of "carried openly in belt holsters". Another option would be to keep an unloaded magazine in the firearm, thereby "completing" the firearm, and invalidating the asinine "essential component" logic.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  18. #18
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sandy Eggo County
    Posts
    1,691
    So, the flip side of that coin.....If you have a CCW and partially expose, it would still be considered concealed?

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    1,251
    I agree, physics and mathematics say, slide open is faster. Not only does it cut "racking" but inserting the magazine is a big time factor, then instead of thumbing a button, now you have to rack the weapon? on your way to sight picture....? Big difference.Im going on vacation with Tim. we will do scientific studies , and report. If anyone has any timed you tube video's proving otherwise, i will take my hat off. and vacaton somwhere else.

  20. #20
    Regular Member DooFster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Nellis AFB, Nevada
    Posts
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    So, the flip side of that coin.....If you have a CCW and partially expose, it would still be considered concealed?
    I think it would be... I was told that if ANY of it is covered, it's considered concealed... That's why I have a drop-leg holster...
    IT is better to have a gun on you and NOT need it, than to need a gun and NOT have it on you...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •