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Thread: Citizen's Arrest Laws of N.C.?

  1. #1
    bgreene89
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    Citizen's Arrest Laws of N.C.?

    This is kinda off subject but I have a question about citizen's arrest and also deadly force combined.

    Example Scenario 1:
    If a armed robber walks in a convenient store, points a firearm at the cashier and says "Give me all the money", and the cashier starts too do so. I draw my firearm, and say drop it! For some odd reason he does can I arrest him?

    Or do I only draw my firearm to protect life?

    Example Scenario 2:
    The armed robber walks in the convenient store, points a firearm at the cashier and says "Give me all the money",
    and the cashier starts too do so. I draw my firearm to protect the cashier, and other citizens in the store. And I shoot him Because I fear for our lives is that legal?



    Does anyone know the citizen arrest laws of NC?

    And can anyone show me the statues?



    Blake

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    Quote Originally Posted by bgreene89 View Post
    This is kinda off subject but I have a question about citizen's arrest and also deadly force combined.

    Example Scenario 1:
    If a armed robber walks in a convenient store, points a firearm at the cashier and says "Give me all the money", and the cashier starts too do so. I draw my firearm, and say drop it! For some odd reason he does can I arrest him?

    Or do I only draw my firearm to protect life?

    Example Scenario 2:
    The armed robber walks in the convenient store, points a firearm at the cashier and says "Give me all the money",
    and the cashier starts too do so. I draw my firearm to protect the cashier, and other citizens in the store. And I shoot him Because I fear for our lives is that legal?



    Does anyone know the citizen arrest laws of NC?

    And can anyone show me the statues?



    Blake
    http://law.onecle.com/north-carolina...t/15a-404.html

  3. #3
    bgreene89
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    Answers all my questions except...

    That answered all my questions except can detain means what?

    Can you handcuff them if they committed a crime involving theft in your presence?


    Blake

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    You ARE NOT a LEO

    Carry to protect yourself or loved ones....if you are going to draw against a BG with a gun, it's time to shoot not talk. Your job is to stay alive, not "play fair" with a BG.

    If the guy runs away, what are you going to do? Shoot him?

    You are NOT a LEO....you're a citizen with a gun (and without a law enforcement commission)

    Just because its worth repeating....YOU are NOT a LEO....

    Carrying a gun is NOT a license to be billy badass or be a superhero stopping all crime within your sight.

    YOU are NOT a LEO....you are a citizen with a gun....

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    No you cant arrest him, yes you can shoot him

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    citizens arrest laws are very shaky. you have to know exactly how to do them, when you are allowed to do them, and more than likely be prepared to take any ramifications of doing so.

    detaining, however, is making sure they stay in one spot. Best thing to do is to physically sit on them. If you move them even an inch, then you just committed kidnapping. (IANAL)

    IMHO, if you do happen to be in a situation where you are confronted with someone robbing a 7-11 that your in (and they are armed with a gun), draw and shoot (to stop!!!) the perp. If he seeks medical attention (most of them more than likely will, depending on where they were hit), it is SOP for the hospital to report anyone that comes in with a gunshot wound.

    YOU are NOT a LEO!!!! Do not act like a LEO. You carry a gun for your protection only! Do not be a hero, unless you feel your life is in danger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgreene89 View Post
    That answered all my questions except can detain means what?

    Can you handcuff them if they committed a crime involving theft in your presence?


    Blake
    Why would you ever put yourself at contact distances with a known formerly armed BG? I might hold him at gun point till the cops get there. But I'm not touching him for nothing.

  8. #8
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    There are no citizen arrest allowances in NC statute that I am aware of. SIGguy nailed it perfectly

  9. #9
    bgreene89
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    I understand I'm Not A Hero But...

    I totally understand where yall are coming from about trying to be a hero. But if the BG gave up without a fight it would be better than shooting, and killing him. And detaining him until the police arrived. However if I feared for my life bad enough I would do what I think would be necessary to prevent someone from getting hurt or killed.


    My question is if I don't use deadly force and mace him and get his weapon away from him with a fist fight can i cuff him are do i have to sit on him until police get there?

    I am not looking for this to happen I just want to try be prepared for when it does.

    Blake
    Last edited by bgreene89; 12-24-2010 at 04:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Well, I hardly think one would be charged with kidnapping or assault if they acted to help prevent an assault or robbery unless they used excessive force to do it. People help stop crimes every day and they aren't charged, so by all mean,s, yes help if you are ever put in that position.

    I'd think that the possibility of civil action against you would be more to worry about, and that would depend on the degree of injury the BG received by your hands or weapon during the incident.

    But if you helped tackle a guy as he was running away after robbing a place, I'd be very surprised if any LEA or DA would decide to press charges against you. You'd be more apt to get some kind of civic award instead.

    What I was saying is that NC law does not allow for citizen's arrest. In other words, unless you are a sworn officer, you have no legal powers of arrest and people have no duty to surrender to your commands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bgreene89 View Post
    My question is if I don't use deadly force and mace him and get his weapon away from him with a fist fight can i cuff him are do i have to sit on him until police get there?

    Blake

    I wonder why you would be carrying handcuffs.....

  12. #12
    Regular Member jlamb's Avatar
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    15A‑404. Detention of offenders by private persons.

    (a) No Arrest; Detention Permitted. No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A‑405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section.

    (b) When Detention Permitted. A private person may detain another person when he has probable cause to believe that the person detained has committed in his presence:

    (1) A felony,

    (2) A breach of the peace,

    (3) A crime involving physical injury to another person, or

    (4) A crime involving theft or destruction of property.

    (c) Manner of Detention. The detention must be in a reasonable manner considering the offense involved and the circumstances of the detention.

    (d) Period of Detention. The detention may be no longer than the time required for the earliest of the following:

    (1) The determination that no offense has been committed.

    (2) Surrender of the person detained to a law‑enforcement officer as provided in subsection (e).

    (e) Surrender to Officer. A private person who detains another must immediately notify a law‑enforcement officer and must, unless he releases the person earlier as required by subsection (d), surrender the person detained to the law‑enforcement officer. (1973, c. 1286, s. 1.)



    15A‑405. Assistance to law‑enforcement officers by private persons to effect arrest or prevent escape; benefits for private persons.

    (a) Assistance upon Request; Authority. Private persons may assist law‑enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid. Nothing in this subsection constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by such person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.

    (b) Benefits to Private Persons. A private person assisting a law‑enforcement officer pursuant to subsection (a) is:

    (1) Repealed by Session Laws 1989, c. 290, s. 1.

    (2) Entitled to the same benefits as a "law‑enforcement officer" as that term is defined in G.S. 143‑166.2(d) (Law‑Enforcement Officers', Firemen's and Rescue Squad Workers' Death Benefit Act); and

    (3) To be treated as an employee of the employer of the law‑enforcement officer within the meaning of G.S. 97‑2(2) (Workers' Compensation Act).

    The Governor and the Council of State are authorized to allocate funds from the Contingency and Emergency Fund for the payment of benefits under subdivision (3) when no other source is available for the payment of such benefits and when they determine that such allocation is necessary and appropriate. (1868‑9, c. 178, subch. 1, s. 2; Code, s. 1125; Rev., s. 3181; C.S., s. 4547; 1973, c. 1286, s. 1; 1979, c. 714, s. 2; 1989, c. 290, s. 1.)

  13. #13
    bgreene89
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    NC Citizens may Detain, unless a LEO gives us premission

    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    What I was saying is that NC law does not allow for citizen's arrest. In other words, unless you are a sworn officer, you have no legal powers of arrest and people have no duty to surrender to your commands.
    Your right but we can detain,unless a LEO gives us the authority to arrest, I found it...

    15A‑404. Detention of offenders by private persons.

    (a) No Arrest; Detention Permitted. No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A‑405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section.

    (b) When Detention Permitted. A private person may detain another person when he has probable cause to believe that the person detained has committed in his presence:

    (1) A felony,

    (2) A breach of the peace,

    (3) A crime involving physical injury to another person, or

    (4) A crime involving theft or destruction of property.

    (c) Manner of Detention. The detention must be in a reasonable manner considering the offense involved and the circumstances of the detention.

    (d) Period of Detention. The detention may be no longer than the time required for the earliest of the following:

    (1) The determination that no offense has been committed.

    (2) Surrender of the person detained to a law‑enforcement officer as provided in subsection (e).

    (e) Surrender to Officer. A private person who detains another must immediately notify a law‑enforcement officer and must, unless he releases the person earlier as required by subsection (d), surrender the person detained to the law‑enforcement officer. (1973, c. 1286, s. 1.)



    15A‑405. Assistance to law‑enforcement officers by private persons to effect arrest or prevent escape; benefits for private persons.

    (a) Assistance upon Request; Authority. Private persons may assist law‑enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid. Nothing in this subsection constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by such person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.

    (b) Benefits to Private Persons. A private person assisting a law‑enforcement officer pursuant to subsection (a) is:

    (1) Repealed by Session Laws 1989, c. 290, s. 1.

    (2) Entitled to the same benefits as a "law‑enforcement officer" as that term is defined in G.S. 143‑166.2(d) (Law‑Enforcement Officers', Firemen's and Rescue Squad Workers' Death Benefit Act); and

    (3) To be treated as an employee of the employer of the law‑enforcement officer within the meaning of G.S. 97‑2(2) (Workers' Compensation Act).

    The Governor and the Council of State are authorized to allocate funds from the Contingency and Emergency Fund for the payment of benefits under subdivision (3) when no other source is available for the payment of such benefits and when they determine that such allocation is necessary and appropriate. (1868‑9, c. 178, subch. 1, s. 2; Code, s. 1125; Rev., s. 3181; C.S., s. 4547; 1973, c. 1286, s. 1; 1979, c. 714, s. 2; 1989, c. 290, s. 1.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bgreene89 View Post
    My question is if I don't use deadly force and mace him and get his weapon away from him with a fist fight can i cuff him are do i have to sit on him until police get there?

    I am not looking for this to happen I just want to try be prepared for when it does.

    Blake
    What do you mean "when" it does?

    Do you think stuff like this happens every day? Do you seriously think you're going to go hands on a BG? I recommend posting less and reading more, because you're coming across as the stereotypical, LEO-wannabe that anti-gunners love to paint us as....YOU and I are NOT LEOs...but citizens with guns (I'm repeating myself for consistency's sake, hoping it breaks your current train of thought)

    Let me throw this out at you---most LEOs don't like to go hands on to cuff someone unless there is backup. Secondly, since you know NOTHING of the person you're supposedly cuffing, how do you know this person is not a hardcore con who's been cuffed by a professional, and is now in contact with a Barney Fife wannabe? (Did you know the BGs train in prison on how to fight back at cops cuffing them?)

    If the BG has a gun, and you are threatened with it, then aim for center of mass until the threat stops...

    If you decide you want to "play fair" and give the BG the chance to give up, you've already lost--he has a plan--and he plans on killing you. Why? Because you have demonstrated in the face of a bold-faced threat, you haven't pulled the trigger. You do not have to play fair...you do not have to fight fair (he won't)...you don't have to cuff him. You have to live past the encounter.

    Might I recommend....again....seek additional training and learn the laws of your state in regards to use of deadly force. Otherwise, you're going to get yourself, or some innocent bystanders killed. You need to learn more about the employment of your firearm and less about handcuffing.

    If you want to learn how to handcuff someone, go apply for a PD, graduate the academy, swear an oath, and wear a badge. Otherwise, put this farthest from your mind of stuff to worry about.

    If the guy does drop a weapon and runs away....I say let him go, call 911 and give them the BGs description. Do not get all Jack Bauer on them (I don't care if he's your homeboy)....
    Last edited by SIGguy229; 12-25-2010 at 01:33 PM.

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    Thumbs up

    I am not advocating anyone do this, as there are a multiude of reasons against it, most of which have been hashed and rehashed on this and other forums, BUT: In NC, the short version is this:

    If you have probable cause that someone has committed a felony in your presence, then yes, you can "make an arrest", in that you may use the appropriate level of force neccessary to stop the felony and detain the suspect until LEO arrives. This includes applying restraints (i.e. tying him up, etc.) what you cannot do is move or transport the suspect anywhere. That becomes kidnapping.

    Please note, that the laws in NC on "citizen arrest" (or whatever term you wish to use for it), does not directly address when you may use deadly force in effecting such an arrest. Be aware, whatever you do will most certainly be Monday-morning quarterbacked to death.

    In fact, I think it is fair to say that a shoot-no shoot decision is more clear cut in the states laws than citizen arrest statutes.

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    If I were to ever be in the situation you first described I would simply shoot the bad guy until the threat was gone.

    It would be easier if he weren't looking at me, so I would skip the "drop it" and just "drop him".

    Of course the scenario would have to be very clear like what you described. If I'm driving down some road and see someone holding someone else at gunpoint, I would have no idea what the circumstances were and call the law while trying to observe from a safe distance.

    I know this is unsolicited but I'm going to share it anyway: I can't imagine a scene where I would try to arrest someone. I don't have handcuffs and I don't know how to safely restrain someone. The closest plausible scenario I can imagine would be holding a home intruder at GP until the police arrive.
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

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    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    The one thing that has always been told to me is "Don't pull your gun unless you intend to use it". Otherwise DON'T TOUCH IT. "If you shoot, Shoot To Kill". "One Story is Better Than Two"

    In other words, protect yourself and your family. Watch & Report situations that you "MIGHT" encounter. If that one situation comes up and you have the opportunity to save someone elses life or whatever, then you will find out afterwards if it was the right one or not.
    Last edited by smlawrence; 12-26-2010 at 12:04 AM.
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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smlawrence View Post
    "If you shoot, Shoot To Kill".
    whoever told you this needs to be slapped, repeatedly, by at least 100 very pissed off wives.

    You NEVER EVER EVER!!! shoot to kill. You always shoot to stop. If the perp is killed by you shooting to stop him, so be it. But you never ever say that you shot to kill him. You WILL be made out to look like a gun toting maniac, and it WILL hurt our cause
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  19. #19
    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixin77 View Post
    whoever told you this needs to be slapped, repeatedly, by at least 100 very pissed off wives.

    You NEVER EVER EVER!!! shoot to kill. You always shoot to stop. If the perp is killed by you shooting to stop him, so be it. But you never ever say that you shot to kill him. You WILL be made out to look like a gun toting maniac, and it WILL hurt our cause
    Oh I assure you that if I ever have to shoot, it WILL stop them.
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

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    And just what is the difference between an 'arrest' and a 'detention'? If I am 'detained' by a LEO I assume I am 'arrested'.

    Carry on
    Last edited by jmlefler; 12-27-2010 at 08:22 AM. Reason: creative insight

  21. #21
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmlefler View Post
    And just what is the difference between an 'arrest' and a 'detention'? If I am 'detained' by a LEO I assume I am 'arrested'.

    Carry on
    In layman's terms a detention is a restriction of the free movement of a citizen conducted to determine, through various but limited degrees of investigation, as to whether or not a violation of law has occurred, or to provide a measure of safety for all parties involved during an encounter.

    An arrest is made only after an LEO has reasonably determined that there is probable cause to conclude that a violation of law has occurred and that the individual arrested is the perpetrator of that crime.

    A detention may or may not result in an arrest, depending on the circumstances. An arrest also triggers certain legal rights of the arrested where a detention will not.

    It sounds picky, but after literally hundreds and hundreds of cases dealing with the act of arresting individuals, the ever-evolving world of case law has made very specific stipulations concerning the matter.

    So if you are ever detained by a LEO, you should not assume that you are under arrest. In fact, ask very specifically as to your status. Ask things like "am I under arrest?" "Am I being detained?" or "Am I free to go?"

    An officer has to be very specific in conveying to you your status. If you are under arrest, then there should be no doubt as to your status, because it invokes certain legalities that are not present in situations where someone is not under arrest.

    To make it all that much more confusing, you can be placed in cuffs while you are being detained and not under arrest. If this is the case the officer will almost always tell you that you are not under arrest, but are being restrained for his/ her, as well as your "safety". Most states and localities consider this a legal policy. If your status changes during the detainment, the officer will let you know what that change entails (as in, whether you are now under arrest, or if you are now free to go).

    Legally, there's a very specific set of regulations detailing the differences between being "detained" and being "arrested". Conversely, there's seems to be little outright difference to the one who is sitting in the back of a cruiser with cuffs on. In both cases, your freedom of movement is restricted, which always seems to be a sticking point of contention between the officer and the citizen

    *Disclaimer*: I am not a lawyer, nor have I ever dressed like one for Halloween.

  22. #22
    Regular Member KevlarCowboy's Avatar
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    If you have to draw your weapon because your life or another persons life is in deadly threat then you should be prepared to use deadly force, and deadly force is exactly what I am going to use.

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    Regular Member KevlarCowboy's Avatar
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    My question is if he is pointing the gun at the cashier and only the cashier then how do you know if its an imminent threat to the cashier, or is the sight of the gun being pointed the sign of imminent danger? Not to sound like a bitch but I don't want to spend a long stint in prison because a jury decided that the guy wasn't posing a dangerous threat even though to me he was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevlarCowboy View Post
    My question is if he is pointing the gun at the cashier and only the cashier then how do you know if its an imminent threat to the cashier, or is the sight of the gun being pointed the sign of imminent danger? Not to sound like a bitch but I don't want to spend a long stint in prison because a jury decided that the guy wasn't posing a dangerous threat even though to me he was.
    If the BG is pointing a gun at you would you conciser this as imminent threat/danger? I would...

    I got my CCW for two reasons

    For carry options and to find out when I can use deadly force....

    You can use deadly force when you feel that death is imminent.... You may use deadly force to protect someone else IF they CAN use deadly force but are unable too...

    SO that said ...with the above scene... BG points gun/knife/pipe/bat at the unarmed cashier You can use deadly force to protect....

  25. #25
    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    I got my CCW for two reasons
    Here in NC, we have a CHP, or CCP, not a CCW. The only time concealed carry of a *weapon* is mentioned is when you are carrying a weapon to cause harm on someone else (i.e. criminal).

    As for KC's questions, muccione is right - if your life is in imminent danger, then you can shoot. If you see someone else's life is in imminent danger, then there is a strong possibility you can shoot. IANAL

    Even if you dont' plan on getting your CHP, I would strongly recommend taking the course. You can find them for about $80-100, and the certificate doesn't expire in case you do change your mind on getting your CHP (highly recommended, as it makes traveling and purchasing new guns much much easier). The course will teach you the laws, and will teach you what to look for while carrying, where you can and can't carry, and when you can and can't shoot.
    Last edited by elixin77; 01-18-2011 at 12:26 PM.
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