Citizen's Arrest Laws of N.C.?

This is kinda off subject but I have a question about citizen's arrest and also deadly force combined.

Example Scenario 1:
If a armed robber walks in a convenient store, points a firearm at the cashier and says "Give me all the money", and the cashier starts too do so. I draw my firearm, and say drop it! For some odd reason he does can I arrest him?

Or do I only draw my firearm to protect life?

Example Scenario 2:
The armed robber walks in the convenient store, points a firearm at the cashier and says "Give me all the money",
and the cashier starts too do so. I draw my firearm to protect the cashier, and other citizens in the store. And I shoot him Because I fear for our lives is that legal?



Does anyone know the citizen arrest laws of NC?

And can anyone show me the statues?



Blake

bgreene89 said:

This is kinda off subject but I have a question about citizen's arrest and also deadly force combined.

Example Scenario 1:
If a armed robber walks in a convenient store, points a firearm at the cashier and says "Give me all the money", and the cashier starts too do so. I draw my firearm, and say drop it! For some odd reason he does can I arrest him?

Or do I only draw my firearm to protect life?

Example Scenario 2:
The armed robber walks in the convenient store, points a firearm at the cashier and says "Give me all the money",
and the cashier starts too do so. I draw my firearm to protect the cashier, and other citizens in the store. And I shoot him Because I fear for our lives is that legal?



Does anyone know the citizen arrest laws of NC?

And can anyone show me the statues?



Blake

Click to expand...

http://law.onecle.com/north-carolina/15a-criminal-procedure-act/15a-404.html

Answers all my questions except...

That answered all my questions except can detain means what?

Can you handcuff them if they committed a crime involving theft in your presence?


Blake

You ARE NOT a LEO

Carry to protect yourself or loved ones....if you are going to draw against a BG with a gun, it's time to shoot not talk. Your job is to stay alive, not "play fair" with a BG.

If the guy runs away, what are you going to do? Shoot him?

You are NOT a LEO....you're a citizen with a gun (and without a law enforcement commission)

Just because its worth repeating....YOU are NOT a LEO....

Carrying a gun is NOT a license to be billy badass or be a superhero stopping all crime within your sight.

YOU are NOT a LEO....you are a citizen with a gun....

No you cant arrest him, yes you can shoot him

citizens arrest laws are very shaky. you have to know exactly how to do them, when you are allowed to do them, and more than likely be prepared to take any ramifications of doing so.

detaining, however, is making sure they stay in one spot. Best thing to do is to physically sit on them. If you move them even an inch, then you just committed kidnapping. (IANAL)

IMHO, if you do happen to be in a situation where you are confronted with someone robbing a 7-11 that your in (and they are armed with a gun), draw and shoot (to stop!!!) the perp. If he seeks medical attention (most of them more than likely will, depending on where they were hit), it is SOP for the hospital to report anyone that comes in with a gunshot wound.

YOU are NOT a LEO!!!! Do not act like a LEO. You carry a gun for your protection only! Do not be a hero, unless you feel your life is in danger.

bgreene89 said:

That answered all my questions except can detain means what?

Can you handcuff them if they committed a crime involving theft in your presence?


Blake

Click to expand...

Why would you ever put yourself at contact distances with a known formerly armed BG? I might hold him at gun point till the cops get there. But I'm not touching him for nothing.

There are no citizen arrest allowances in NC statute that I am aware of. SIGguy nailed it perfectly

I understand I'm Not A Hero But...

I totally understand where yall are coming from about trying to be a hero. But if the BG gave up without a fight it would be better than shooting, and killing him. And detaining him until the police arrived. However if I feared for my life bad enough I would do what I think would be necessary to prevent someone from getting hurt or killed.


My question is if I don't use deadly force and mace him and get his weapon away from him with a fist fight can i cuff him are do i have to sit on him until police get there?

I am not looking for this to happen I just want to try be prepared for when it does.

Blake

Well, I hardly think one would be charged with kidnapping or assault if they acted to help prevent an assault or robbery unless they used excessive force to do it. People help stop crimes every day and they aren't charged, so by all mean,s, yes help if you are ever put in that position.

I'd think that the possibility of civil action against you would be more to worry about, and that would depend on the degree of injury the BG received by your hands or weapon during the incident.

But if you helped tackle a guy as he was running away after robbing a place, I'd be very surprised if any LEA or DA would decide to press charges against you. You'd be more apt to get some kind of civic award instead.

What I was saying is that NC law does not allow for citizen's arrest. In other words, unless you are a sworn officer, you have no legal powers of arrest and people have no duty to surrender to your commands.

bgreene89 said:

My question is if I don't use deadly force and mace him and get his weapon away from him with a fist fight can i cuff him are do i have to sit on him until police get there?

Blake

Click to expand...

I wonder why you would be carrying handcuffs.....

§ 15A‑404. Detention of offenders by private persons.

(a) No Arrest; Detention Permitted. – No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A‑405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section.

(b) When Detention Permitted. – A private person may detain another person when he has probable cause to believe that the person detained has committed in his presence:

(1) A felony,

(2) A breach of the peace,

(3) A crime involving physical injury to another person, or

(4) A crime involving theft or destruction of property.

(c) Manner of Detention. – The detention must be in a reasonable manner considering the offense involved and the circumstances of the detention.

(d) Period of Detention. – The detention may be no longer than the time required for the earliest of the following:

(1) The determination that no offense has been committed.

(2) Surrender of the person detained to a law‑enforcement officer as provided in subsection (e).

(e) Surrender to Officer. – A private person who detains another must immediately notify a law‑enforcement officer and must, unless he releases the person earlier as required by subsection (d), surrender the person detained to the law‑enforcement officer. (1973, c. 1286, s. 1.)



§ 15A‑405. Assistance to law‑enforcement officers by private persons to effect arrest or prevent escape; benefits for private persons.

(a) Assistance upon Request; Authority. – Private persons may assist law‑enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid. Nothing in this subsection constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by such person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.

(b) Benefits to Private Persons. – A private person assisting a law‑enforcement officer pursuant to subsection (a) is:

(1) Repealed by Session Laws 1989, c. 290, s. 1.

(2) Entitled to the same benefits as a "law‑enforcement officer" as that term is defined in G.S. 143‑166.2(d) (Law‑Enforcement Officers', Firemen's and Rescue Squad Workers' Death Benefit Act); and

(3) To be treated as an employee of the employer of the law‑enforcement officer within the meaning of G.S. 97‑2(2) (Workers' Compensation Act).

The Governor and the Council of State are authorized to allocate funds from the Contingency and Emergency Fund for the payment of benefits under subdivision (3) when no other source is available for the payment of such benefits and when they determine that such allocation is necessary and appropriate. (1868‑9, c. 178, subch. 1, s. 2; Code, s. 1125; Rev., s. 3181; C.S., s. 4547; 1973, c. 1286, s. 1; 1979, c. 714, s. 2; 1989, c. 290, s. 1.)

NC Citizens may Detain, unless a LEO gives us premission

rotorhead said:

What I was saying is that NC law does not allow for citizen's arrest. In other words, unless you are a sworn officer, you have no legal powers of arrest and people have no duty to surrender to your commands.

Click to expand...

Your right but we can detain,unless a LEO gives us the authority to arrest, I found it...

§ 15A‑404. Detention of offenders by private persons.

(a) No Arrest; Detention Permitted. – No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A‑405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section.

(b) When Detention Permitted. – A private person may detain another person when he has probable cause to believe that the person detained has committed in his presence:

(1) A felony,

(2) A breach of the peace,

(3) A crime involving physical injury to another person, or

(4) A crime involving theft or destruction of property.

(c) Manner of Detention. – The detention must be in a reasonable manner considering the offense involved and the circumstances of the detention.

(d) Period of Detention. – The detention may be no longer than the time required for the earliest of the following:

(1) The determination that no offense has been committed.

(2) Surrender of the person detained to a law‑enforcement officer as provided in subsection (e).

(e) Surrender to Officer. – A private person who detains another must immediately notify a law‑enforcement officer and must, unless he releases the person earlier as required by subsection (d), surrender the person detained to the law‑enforcement officer. (1973, c. 1286, s. 1.)



§ 15A‑405. Assistance to law‑enforcement officers by private persons to effect arrest or prevent escape; benefits for private persons.

(a) Assistance upon Request; Authority. – Private persons may assist law‑enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid. Nothing in this subsection constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by such person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.

(b) Benefits to Private Persons. – A private person assisting a law‑enforcement officer pursuant to subsection (a) is:

(1) Repealed by Session Laws 1989, c. 290, s. 1.

(2) Entitled to the same benefits as a "law‑enforcement officer" as that term is defined in G.S. 143‑166.2(d) (Law‑Enforcement Officers', Firemen's and Rescue Squad Workers' Death Benefit Act); and

(3) To be treated as an employee of the employer of the law‑enforcement officer within the meaning of G.S. 97‑2(2) (Workers' Compensation Act).

The Governor and the Council of State are authorized to allocate funds from the Contingency and Emergency Fund for the payment of benefits under subdivision (3) when no other source is available for the payment of such benefits and when they determine that such allocation is necessary and appropriate. (1868‑9, c. 178, subch. 1, s. 2; Code, s. 1125; Rev., s. 3181; C.S., s. 4547; 1973, c. 1286, s. 1; 1979, c. 714, s. 2; 1989, c. 290, s. 1.)

bgreene89 said:

My question is if I don't use deadly force and mace him and get his weapon away from him with a fist fight can i cuff him are do i have to sit on him until police get there?

I am not looking for this to happen I just want to try be prepared for when it does.

Blake

Click to expand...

What do you mean "when" it does?

Do you think stuff like this happens every day? Do you seriously think you're going to go hands on a BG? I recommend posting less and reading more, because you're coming across as the stereotypical, LEO-wannabe that anti-gunners love to paint us as....YOU and I are NOT LEOs...but citizens with guns (I'm repeating myself for consistency's sake, hoping it breaks your current train of thought)

Let me throw this out at you---most LEOs don't like to go hands on to cuff someone unless there is backup. Secondly, since you know NOTHING of the person you're supposedly cuffing, how do you know this person is not a hardcore con who's been cuffed by a professional, and is now in contact with a Barney Fife wannabe? (Did you know the BGs train in prison on how to fight back at cops cuffing them?)

If the BG has a gun, and you are threatened with it, then aim for center of mass until the threat stops...

If you decide you want to "play fair" and give the BG the chance to give up, you've already lost--he has a plan--and he plans on killing you. Why? Because you have demonstrated in the face of a bold-faced threat, you haven't pulled the trigger. You do not have to play fair...you do not have to fight fair (he won't)...you don't have to cuff him. You have to live past the encounter.

Might I recommend....again....seek additional training and learn the laws of your state in regards to use of deadly force. Otherwise, you're going to get yourself, or some innocent bystanders killed. You need to learn more about the employment of your firearm and less about handcuffing.

If you want to learn how to handcuff someone, go apply for a PD, graduate the academy, swear an oath, and wear a badge. Otherwise, put this farthest from your mind of stuff to worry about.

If the guy does drop a weapon and runs away....I say let him go, call 911 and give them the BGs description. Do not get all Jack Bauer on them (I don't care if he's your homeboy)....

I am not advocating anyone do this, as there are a multiude of reasons against it, most of which have been hashed and rehashed on this and other forums, BUT: In NC, the short version is this:

If you have probable cause that someone has committed a felony in your presence, then yes, you can "make an arrest", in that you may use the appropriate level of force neccessary to stop the felony and detain the suspect until LEO arrives. This includes applying restraints (i.e. tying him up, etc.) what you cannot do is move or transport the suspect anywhere. That becomes kidnapping.

Please note, that the laws in NC on "citizen arrest" (or whatever term you wish to use for it), does not directly address when you may use deadly force in effecting such an arrest. Be aware, whatever you do will most certainly be Monday-morning quarterbacked to death.

In fact, I think it is fair to say that a shoot-no shoot decision is more clear cut in the states laws than citizen arrest statutes.

If I were to ever be in the situation you first described I would simply shoot the bad guy until the threat was gone.

It would be easier if he weren't looking at me, so I would skip the "drop it" and just "drop him".

Of course the scenario would have to be very clear like what you described. If I'm driving down some road and see someone holding someone else at gunpoint, I would have no idea what the circumstances were and call the law while trying to observe from a safe distance.

I know this is unsolicited but I'm going to share it anyway: I can't imagine a scene where I would try to arrest someone. I don't have handcuffs and I don't know how to safely restrain someone. The closest plausible scenario I can imagine would be holding a home intruder at GP until the police arrive.

The one thing that has always been told to me is "Don't pull your gun unless you intend to use it". Otherwise DON'T TOUCH IT. "If you shoot, Shoot To Kill". "One Story is Better Than Two"

In other words, protect yourself and your family. Watch & Report situations that you "MIGHT" encounter. If that one situation comes up and you have the opportunity to save someone elses life or whatever, then you will find out afterwards if it was the right one or not.

smlawrence said:

"If you shoot, Shoot To Kill".

Click to expand...

whoever told you this needs to be slapped, repeatedly, by at least 100 very pissed off wives.

You NEVER EVER EVER!!! shoot to kill. You always shoot to stop. If the perp is killed by you shooting to stop him, so be it. But you never ever say that you shot to kill him. You WILL be made out to look like a gun toting maniac, and it WILL hurt our cause

elixin77 said:

whoever told you this needs to be slapped, repeatedly, by at least 100 very pissed off wives.

You NEVER EVER EVER!!! shoot to kill. You always shoot to stop. If the perp is killed by you shooting to stop him, so be it. But you never ever say that you shot to kill him. You WILL be made out to look like a gun toting maniac, and it WILL hurt our cause

Click to expand...

Oh I assure you that if I ever have to shoot, it WILL stop them.

And just what is the difference between an 'arrest' and a 'detention'? If I am 'detained' by a LEO I assume I am 'arrested'.

Carry on