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Thread: White Christmas causes Suspension of Bill of Rights in NC...*EDIT: No suspension*

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    White Christmas causes Suspension of Bill of Rights in NC...*EDIT: No suspension*

    Lt. Gov. Dalton, in consultation with Gov. Perdue has declared a State of Emergency for the ENTIRE STATE of NC, because of the snow...

    Merry Christmas--now it's against the law to carry in NC...

    It's also against the law to purchase firearms or ammo or alcoholic beverages (beer, wine, or liquor)--EVERYWHERE in the state.

    It's also against the law to possess or transport ANY firearm off your own property--EVERYWHERE in the state...

    Thanks, Governor Perdue and Lt. Gov. Dalton.

    Nothing says "Merry Christmas" like a complete suspension of fundamental human rights...

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl..._14-288.7.html


    To all,

    Due to the fact that the thread is wildly wrong (though to be fair, all previous "States of Emergency declarations" triggered the gun prohibition, so it's an easy mistake to make), I am editing this post with an explanation: The gun prohibition is NOT in effect in NC.

    State of Emergency Clarification

    Where this order declaring a State of Emergency gets interesting is that it is declared pursuant to the powers vested in the Governor under N.C. General Statutes Article 1 of Chapter 166A. This is the North Carolina Emergency Management Act of 1977. An emergency declared in this manner does not trigger the prohibition on the off-premises possession of firearms and ammunition unlike NCGS 14 § 288.15.

    I am editing this post per the following rule:

    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    Unlike Gray, I'm not just going to parrot the unlawful opinions of the NC AG or the illegal, unconstitutional actions of the Governor--I will, in fact cite NC Statutes AS THEY STAND, and not twist the law around in obfuscatory, misleading ways to try and fool the good people of NC into believing that SoEs do not AUTOMATICALLY come with a ban on transport and possession of firearms off their private property...

    He is right in saying that EO-75 declared an SoE under Article 1 of Chapter 166A, which DOES NOT automatically invoke a weapons transport ban. He is also correct in saying that EO-75 DID NOT declare this SoE under §14-288.15, which has historically been used to declare such SoEs...

    But what he's NOT telling you (and what teh AG and Governor are misleading you with) is that
    §14-288.15 DOES NOT now, nor has it EVER automatically invoked this weapons ban. The wording in §14-288.15 is for LOCAL States of Emergency, and gives the Governor the authority to, at her discretion, impose a weapons ban if the local authorities can't handle the Emergency, and the Governor sees fit to do so.

    The AUTOMATIC ban on transporting firearms that is kicked in by Declared States of Emergency is activated by
    §14-288.7. This Statute is part of the General Criminal Code, and is NOT contingent on activation by the Governor, local authorities, or any other authority or agency--it is ALWAYS in effect ANY TIME and ANYWHERE an SoE is declared in the State.

    Please, Citizens of North Carolina--I BEG you to look up these statutes and read them yourself. Do not take my word for it. I am not a lawyer, but I CAN read, and the law is clear on this.

    You are being bamboozled by the oligarchs in Raleigh. They are attempting to weasel their way into a situation that allows them to petition for the dismissal of the lawsuit brought by SAF against the State to overturn this evil, racist Soe firearms ban in the "Bateman" case, by establishign that the Citizens of NC can claim no standing because their rights have suffered no injury.

    The Governor DOES NOT have the right or legal authority to--at her whim--declare which Criminal Codes are to be enforced or ignored. When she says that
    §14-288.7 isn't in effect when a SoE is declared, she is essentially telling us that the Rule of Law is not in effect in NC, and we are now operating under some sort of "benevolent dictatorship" where the application of the law is determined by whim and fiat.

    Nothing could be further from the truth, and the Good People of NC need to call her and the AG out on this unlawful conduct, and demand that this unconstitutional Statute be repealed and struck from the books.
    And we also need to demand that the Governor and AG be impeached, for violation of their Constitutionally-defined duties, violation of the NC Criminal Code, and violation of their Oaths.

    Just wanted to cl
    ear that up...

    --Dreamer (someone who is more interested in the TRUTH than in appeasing an out-of-control government)

    Though previous states of emergency triggered the prohibition, it appears that due to the Bateman v. Perdue case, the executive branch of the state of North Carolina is no longer declaring emergencies under the statute which triggers the gun prohibitions.

    They are no longer declaring SoEs under the statute that give LOCAL officials the DISCRETIONARY option to declare SoE's, which is what both 166A and §14-288.15 do.

    However, the wording of §14-288.7 is CLEAR. The activation of §14-288.7 is NOT dependent on any declaration or procedural invocation--it is AUTOMATIC and in effect ANY TIME and ANY PLACE that an SoE is declared in the State. It is NOT part of the statutes that are used to define, regulate, or enumerate the powers of State or Local governments during SoEs--it is part of the GENERAL Criminal Code of NC.

    To say that §14-288.7 is ONLY in effect when the governor says it is is like saying that the statutes that regulate rape, murder, or looting are only in effect when the governor says they are. Such an argument as is being put forth by the Governor and the AG is patently ridiculous, and treading dangerously close to sedition.

    The application and enforcement of NC Criminal Codes are not subject to the whims and fiat of the Executive, and to assert otherwise is to deny the Rule of Law in our fine state...

    --Dreamer

    You can thank Alan Gura, Mr. Bateman and Plaintiffs, GNRC, and SAF for this development. Remember that freedom isn't free....

    Carry On!!!!

    -Gray Peterson, Moderator Team, OCDO
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-02-2011 at 03:19 AM. Reason: Editing to Clarify that this particular SoE did not remove gun rights
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  2. #2
    mattwestm
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    Wow, a state of emergency and not even a flake of snow has hit the ground in ENC yet. I talked to a friend in Greensboro and he said the ground there is lightly powdered, but nothing that would prevent anyone from driving. Supposedly ENC is supposed to get hit harder with snow than the rest of the state. There are two different meanings to the term 'blizzard' up North and down South.

    I think the only time a state of emergency should be declared is when it's actually an emergency, like a hurricane or any other event that might cause great loss of life. Snow doesn't fit the bill.

    Also, any idea if most LEOs in NC know about not carrying during a state of emergency? As far as liquor sales, that doesn't bother me as much, I keep a reserve on hand just for times like this. I hope to move to another free state after I graduate, hopefully one that doesn't control the sale of liquor.

    Merry Christmas, be safe
    Last edited by mattwestm; 12-25-2010 at 11:06 PM.

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    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    This better be resolved by Monday

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    What will be really interesting will be to see if it gets withdrawn before New Years...

    If it's still in effect the few days before New Years, I would STRONGLY recommend stationing a few people with cell phones outside EVERY ABC store in the state, and also shooting ranges, and calling in the violations every time someone uses either of these services...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-26-2010 at 12:42 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Jsmith88's Avatar
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    OOOPS...just got home from the service station and was carrying, guess that makes me a criminal.
    “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” -Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    Wow, a state of emergency and not even a flake of snow has hit the ground in ENC yet. I talked to a friend in Greensboro and he said the ground there is lightly powdered, but nothing that would prevent anyone from driving. Supposedly ENC is supposed to get hit harder with snow than the rest of the state. There are two different meanings to the term 'blizzard' up North and down South.

    I think the only time a state of emergency should be declared is when it's actually an emergency, like a hurricane or any other event that might cause great loss of life. Snow doesn't fit the bill.

    Also, any idea if most LEOs in NC know about not carrying during a state of emergency? As far as liquor sales, that doesn't bother me as much, I keep a reserve on hand just for times like this. I hope to move to another free state after I graduate, hopefully one that doesn't control the sale of liquor.

    Merry Christmas, be safe
    Not sure where you friend lives in Greensboro, but I live near the airport and we had 3 inches on the ground at 4pm. I've got around 6 inches out there right now and the roads are all covered pretty good. I'll be going out tomorrow to start clearing some of my jobs and guess I'll have to play dumb on the SOE cause I'm carrying just in case there is an emergency while I'm out on the dangerous roads.
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

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    Regular Member Jsmith88's Avatar
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    I look forward to seeing the outcome of the lawsuit to overturn this stupid law.

    http://saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=329
    “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” -Thomas Jefferson

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    I have just sent an email to the second amendment foundation requesting that I be able to get involved in the lawsuit against NC over the guns in emergencies ban.

    I would suggest that everyone else do the same. You can find the info to contact the SAF at their website. http://www.saf.org/

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Lt. Gov. Dalton, in consultation with Gov. Perdue has declared a State of Emergency for the ENTIRE STATE of NC, because of the snow...

    Merry Christmas--now it's against the law to carry in NC...

    It's also against the law to purchase firearms or ammo or alcoholic beverages (beer, wine, or liquor)--EVERYWHERE in the state.

    It's also against the law to possess or transport ANY firearm off your own property--EVERYWHERE in the state...

    Thanks, Governor Perdue and Lt. Gov. Dalton.

    Nothing says "Merry Christmas" like a complete suspension of fundamental human rights...

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl..._14-288.7.html
    Uggh here we go again with this SOE junk. This is perhaps the most insulting, ridiculous, and asinine law on the books.

    A snow storm.....a damn SNOW STORM is cause for a declaration of a state of emergency? Never mind that the restrictions against carrying and buying guns or ammo during the times citizens would need them the most are simply moronic, but to call a state of emergency for a snow storm? What's next, calling it due to the temperature dropping below 25 degrees?

    Simply amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    What's next, calling it due to the temperature dropping below 25 degrees?

    Simply amazing.
    Yes. This has already been done. Technically an EO. Similar to a SOE in some ways. I'll be interested in seeing the wording of this SOE and see if they remember what the last few got them.

    "WHEREAS, the continued period of cold weather has increased the demand for those heating fuels and threatens the uninterrupted delivery of those fuels to residential and commercial customers, thereby justifying an exemption from 49 CFR Part 395 (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations); and"

    http://www.governor.state.nc.us/News...ewsItemID=1595

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    Separate response that I am cross posting from NCSF. The issue here is that it only applies to CCP's, if it applies at all.

    I've never noticed or put this together but check this out. Most GS statutes have exemptions, see caps.

    14‑288.7. Transporting dangerous weapon or substance during emergency; possessing off premises; exceptions.
    (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to transport or possess off his own premises any dangerous weapon or substance in any area:
    (1) In which a declared state of emergency exists; or
    (2) Within the immediate vicinity of which a riot is occurring.
    (B) THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO PERSONS EXEMPTED FROM THE PROVISIONS OF G.S. 14‑269 WITH RESPECT TO ANY ACTIVITIES LAWFULLY ENGAGED IN WHILE CARRYING OUT THEIR DUTIES.
    (c) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. (1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 192; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)


    14‑269. Carrying concealed weapons.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shurikin, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind, except when the person is on the person's own premises.
    (a1) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any pistol or gun EXCEPT IN THE FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCES:
    (1) The person is on the person's own premises.

    (2) THE DEADLY WEAPON IS A HANDGUN, AND THE PERSON HAS A CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT ISSUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ARTICLE 54B OF THIS CHAPTER OR CONSIDERED VALID UNDER G.S. 14‑415.24.


    The SOE sounds like it's referring to LEO's but never states LEO's. It was written before CCP's when LEO's where the only one's likely to be carrying. Since it uses the blanket idea of those exempt from 14-269, then that now includes CCP's. IANAL and it's late so take this for what you paid for it. What say you?

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    Regular Member Maverick9110e's Avatar
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    Wtf!! I'm planning on heading out to the store with some giftcards to buy a new rifle..... oh this is some BS! There like 4" of snow! Get real!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post

    (2) THE DEADLY WEAPON IS A HANDGUN, AND THE PERSON HAS A CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT ISSUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ARTICLE 54B OF THIS CHAPTER OR CONSIDERED VALID UNDER G.S. 14‑415.24.
    so does this mean I can carry concealed? because I have a CHP

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    So, it's illegal to carry due to SOE.
    You must inform officer if you are CC and admit to breaking the law...

    Can I take the 5th?

    -R
    Last edited by rdinatal; 12-26-2010 at 08:26 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I don't recall anything in the Constitution of the United States of American which grants any state any authority whatsoever to suspend rights guaranteed by the Constitution during a statewide emergency.

    What other rights are suspended? Suffrage? Non-discrimination by means of race, sex, or religious affiliation?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    This is freaking ridiculous. They can call emergency for any reason, and no more rights.

    I agree, the 5th amendment says you don't have to incriminate yourself by speaking.

    Just some food for thought...

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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    so does this mean I can carry concealed? because I have a CHP
    Without saying yes or no, it would seem like it would it not? IANAL though. I know what I am going to do.

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    Walmart 4459 in nashville NC is selling beer and wine, (caught at least part of it on video)
    GO PIRATES!!!!!

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    Lol, went down to Dick's sporting goods today with some giftcards and picked up a new Mossberg 702. This is a joke.

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    well I guess thats why its called concealed... nobody will know....

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I don't recall anything in the Constitution of the United States of American which grants any state any authority whatsoever to suspend rights guaranteed by the Constitution during a statewide emergency.

    What other rights are suspended? Suffrage? Non-discrimination by means of race, sex, or religious affiliation?
    that would be the 10th amendment. The real question is what in NC State Consitution gives them such a power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I don't recall anything in the Constitution of the United States of American which grants any state any authority whatsoever to suspend rights guaranteed by the Constitution during a statewide emergency.
    Umm, you do know what happened during Katrina right?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

    we only think we have rights..sigh...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Lt. Gov. Dalton, in consultation with Gov. Perdue has declared a State of Emergency for the ENTIRE STATE of NC, because of the snow...

    Merry Christmas--now it's against the law to carry in NC...

    It's also against the law to purchase firearms or ammo or alcoholic beverages (beer, wine, or liquor)--EVERYWHERE in the state.

    It's also against the law to possess or transport ANY firearm off your own property--EVERYWHERE in the state...

    Thanks, Governor Perdue and Lt. Gov. Dalton.

    Nothing says "Merry Christmas" like a complete suspension of fundamental human rights...

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl..._14-288.7.html
    Do you have a cite for this. I've heard about but cannot find the actual SOE. Not doubting it doesn't exist, just can't find it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketdad View Post
    Do you have a cite for this. I've heard about but cannot find the actual SOE. Not doubting it doesn't exist, just can't find it.
    The SOE doesn't have to specifically say anything to bring this statute into effect--it AUTOMATICALLY kicks in any time an SoE is declared...

    As for this so-called SoE, it has not yet been published on either the Governor's web site or the Lt. Gov.'s website...

    North Carolina General Statutes § 14-288.7


    Transporting dangerous weapon or substance during emergency; possessing off premises; exceptions

    (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to transport or possess off his own premises any dangerous weapon or substance in any area:
    (1) In which a declared state of emergency exists; or
    (2) Within the immediate vicinity of which a riot is occurring.
    (b) This section does not apply to persons exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269 with respect to any activities lawfully engaged in while carrying out their duties.
    (c) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. (1969, c. 869, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 192; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)
    http://law.justia.com/northcarolina/..._14-288.7.html
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The SOE doesn't have to specifically say anything to bring this statute into effect--it AUTOMATICALLY kicks in any time an SoE is declared...

    As for this so-called SoE, it has not yet been published on either the Governor's web site or the Lt. Gov.'s website...



    http://law.justia.com/northcarolina/..._14-288.7.html
    I'm very familiar with the law. I am just a wee bit involved with Gura's lawsuit.

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