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Thread: Renton Road Rage: How stupid is that?

  1. #1
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    Renton Road Rage: How stupid is that?

    "...Road rage shootings are always foolish but this case ramps stupidity to a new level because the 3 a.m. incident unfolded right in front of a State Patrol trooper...."

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...stupid-is-that

    Or try this:

    http://tinyurl.com/2e2h8eu

    OCDO members:
    Have YOU ever been
    a witness to, or the victim of, a road rage incident?

    How did you react?

    What did you do?

    Don't be shy about responding here, or at the bottom of the column.

  2. #2
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    I've witnessed lots of road rage incidents. Fortunately, none to date have involved accidents, injury, or gunfire.

    When I see one developing I just fall back and watch.

    Actually had a "chase" go right past me one day on US-2 while returning from the Monroe fair. Some "dim bulb" was trying to outrun a Deputy Sheriff in fairly heavy traffic. I commented to my wife when they came up from behind and passed us that "there's going to be an accident at the end of this chase". Sure enough, he exited US-2 at Hwy 9 and when he turned South, he became a "hood ornament" for a Northbound truck. I got to witness the Deputies administering a different form of "First Aid".

    It sounds like the guy in the reported incident forgot to change the batteries for his brain before he left home. Either that or what Dave referred to as his "stupid gland" is an exceptionally large one.

    Bad news is that under current conditions in Washington Department of Corrections, he'll be back to his own tricks in no time at all.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I don't know what its like to be aggressed upon and haven't had that experience. I have counciled both of my teenagers not to instigate incidences with strangers on the road and if they should find someone being aggressive towards them to try to keep their heads cool and not escalate the siituation. You never know if that other person has already decided this may be their last day on earth.

    If someone cuts you off, there is no point in honking at them to show them you are angry. A horn is for warning and alerting, not for negative feedback. Driving alongside someone to flip them off or rolling down your window to flip them off or following them to their destination to let them know how stupid they are for cutting in front of you is a very reckless idea.

    There's no need to go out and seek confrontation with total strangers. Some people will do anything they can to win any arguement or fight including spending the rest of their life in prison at your expense. What could be a few words, an aggressive pursuit or a punch could end in someone being seriously injured or killed due to stranger's unpredictable reactions to your actions.

  4. #4
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Over the years I have been both witness and victim. As the victim I usually move to another lane and let the other person have the road. There have been times I have called 911 on the other driver. Each and every time I have been armed and a few times I was even carrying extra weapons.

    A week before Christmas I was heading down to see SV_Libertarian in Olympia when there was a driver camped out in the left lane doing 55mph. Drivers were speeding past in the 3rd lane to the right then cut across to the left lane. Did the guy get the hint after the first 10 cars? No. So the middle lane opens up and the guy in front of me moves over and goes to pass him with me in tow. We both had plenty of room to move over but the "camper" takes offense to me, moves over and speeds up next to the truck and swerves into my lane like he is going to move over. When he saw he couldn't get me riled he got behind me and flashed his lights and kept moving back and forth like he wanted to pass. All of a sudden I guess he finally saw the gun stickers on the back of the truck window and he backed way off and I never saw him again.

  5. #5
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Bad M1! Stop advertising you have weapons! You'll get robbed and criminals will have more guns!!!!


    I'm going to custom order a SW M&P sticker...a big one...


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

  6. #6
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    Regarding the gang related shooting at South Center Mall, also mentioned in Dave's article: No fifteen year old should have a gun, thug or not. And people wonder why I don't want to go to Southcenter Mall anymore! It was the gang related shooting in Dec. 2008 at Southcenter that was the reason I bought a gun and got into self defense.

    I was involved in a road rage incident last year. I was on Grady Way, in the turn lane to get onto Rainier. There was one car in front of me. When the arrow turned green, the car continued to sit there a bit, so I tapped my horn. It was a brief honk and I only honked once. That arrow is not a long one. Well the driver took offense, got in the lane to my left after we made the turn and paced me; he kept looking over at me, but I wouldn't look at him. He got behind me and followed me, very closely. He continued to move back and forth like that until he finally turned off. I was scared; this person was not acting in a rational manner. I thought about pulling into a parking lot and letting him go on, but I knew he would follow me and we would have a problem because I was armed at the time; I didn't want to give him the opportunity to confront me and maybe attack me, so I kept driving. He turned off after a couple of miles. What is wrong with people?!? If someone honks at me, I just wave and go on. It's not personal, people. Everyone takes everything so personally anymore. I admit I have been guilty of taking things personally from time to time, but not on the highway.
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    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    Ride a MC for a while; THAT makes you be aware of what is going on. I've learned to read drivers like a book. You better learn to like Crow, cuz being a biker, you'll be eating a lot of it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    Ride a MC for a while; THAT makes you be aware of what is going on. I've learned to read drivers like a book. You better learn to like Crow, cuz being a biker, you'll be eating a lot of it!

    Squeak, what are you talking about? I haven't seen anyone on this thread mention being on a motorcycle. Perhaps I missed something?
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    Ride a MC for a while; THAT makes you be aware of what is going on. I've learned to read drivers like a book. You better learn to like Crow, cuz being a biker, you'll be eating a lot of it!
    Forgive me, I'm tired, worked all day. I understand now. You are saying you have to put up with more when riding a motorcycle. That is undoubtly true; it scares me when I am driving how little room some drivers give motorcycles. I always stay back from them and give them extra room; if something happens, I want to be able to stop, not run over them.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    Ride a MC for a while; THAT makes you be aware of what is going on. I've learned to read drivers like a book. You better learn to like Crow, cuz being a biker, you'll be eating a lot of it!
    Roger that. When I rode a few years back I had more then my share of drivers almost kill me because they were not paying attention. To keep on topic I did have a time when a group of us were attacked by bottles and a bunch of guys running towards us when we were at a stop light. I kept aware of these guys and as soon as they got within jumping distance of us I took off through the red light and the other riders followed suit. I was the only one armed and did not feel like getting into a confrontation in a less than desirable area of seattle at 10PM. I am sure more then one of the perps were unlawfully armed.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  11. #11
    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    I did witness an incident once (at least, one that had me on my toes)..my g/f and I were riding my motorcycle thru a curvy canyon area that is also a major road in southern CO and busy with summer weekend traffic. A truck pulling a small trailer was trying to drive about 15-20 mph faster than the rest of the traffic, unable to make much progress due to amount of other vehicles on the road...he was cutting back and forth between the two lanes cutting people off left and right. One vehicle was "blocking" the left lane and he swerved to the right and cut back to the left, causing his trailer to sideswipe the vehicle which was about the 3rd car in front of us.

    I backed off on the bike quite a bit, not sure what was going to happen especially since we were all coming up on a red light. Nothing happened at the light but the truck/trailer took off at about 75 in a 55 with the victim following but not chasing...and I following the victim since we witnessed everything.

    A few miles later the victim pulled over because the 911 dispatcher told them to and I pulled over with them. We BS'd on the side of the road for a few minutes until we were told that the run vehicle was pulled over the next city up the road. We all headed up there and the dude was pulled over by SEVERAL police cars. We gave our statements to the cops and finished out our day.

    Lessons learned: It's a good thing I didn't "race" the guy pulling the trailer while we were going thru the curves, I backed off and let him go by, thinking at the time that you never know what might happen.

    At the light after the accident, I tried to find an escape route in case the SHTF (on the bike we had none, on foot we could ditch the bike and jump the center divider) and worked on being a good witness (difficult to be on the line with 911 while on the move on a motorcycle!)

  12. #12
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    No turn signals, slow drivers, People merging and not matching their speed to the flow of traffic... AHHHH now I want to run someone off the road.

    We should just get rid of insurance completely, and all get big trucks with push bar bumpers. If someone hits the brakes and starts to turn with no turn signal, we should be able to just plow them out of the way. Someone turns a corner doing 30 then slows down to 20 right in front of you after watching you approach from a half mile away, POW, plow them out of the way. If your cruise is set to 60mph and there is not an open lane to get over in, and there is room in front of you and behind you but yet a merging car makes you speed up or slow down to avoid them smashing into you, FO GET BOUT TIT, BAM, plow them out of the way. Someone is driving 55 in a 60 for 5 miles in the fast lane on a highway, KAPOWIE, Plow them out of the way.

    I guess I could be considered a little aggresive and intollerent of people who should not be on the road. Dont worry though, I carry maxed out limits on my insurance.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

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  13. #13
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Like M1, I have been both victim and witness to many road range incidents. In a former job, I commuted back and forth from Seattle to Portland a few times a year for work, and even drove a car as part of my line of work in executive protections. I got to see and experience all kinds.

    I don't think there is a week that goes by that I don't see someone flip their lid on I-5, and 405 can be even worse during rush hour. During bad rain or snow conditions, people are just plain psycho on the roads, blaming every other driver for their inability to handle conditions.

    Its even worse in California I might add.

    However, knowing I'm armed, I both feel no obligation or need to get involved or respond in kind to those who tailgate me or try to get me upset.

    I figure, worst case scenario, they intentionally crash into me and try to attack me, in which case, I am prepared. Best case scenario, they flip their lid for a little while, then drive on.

    Now that I have hands free in my car, I just call 911 and give them the info for followup or record. I know they are probably not going to send a patrol car just to check out a road rage incident that didn't amount to anything, but I figure, if it somehow does, at least they have a chance to put 2 and 2 together.

    It seems to figure, that since about 5% of Washington adults (above 21 yoa) have CPLs, and that converts into about 1 in 20 of those adults possibly being armed on the road at any given time, its a wonder there are not more incidents of this type.

    That said...

    Even if you safely assume that a small fraction of those adults who have CPLs even bother to carry on a regular basis, lets say....20% (or 1 out of every 100) you still have a large amount of people on the road daily with firearms that are the exception that prove the rule, that this type of incident isn't anywhere near an epidemic.

    This guy simply forgot that a firearm is always a last resort, and now, he will likely never legally get the chance to make that decision again, and heaven help him if he does pick and corner that 1 out of 100.

    This guy not only deserves never to be able to carry a gun again, but he also deserves never to be able to drive a vehicle again, IMHO, since he used both equally irresponsibly in a manner that unjustly endangered someones life.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    No turn signals, slow drivers, People merging and not matching their speed to the flow of traffic... AHHHH now I want to run someone off the road.

    We should just get rid of insurance completely, and all get big trucks with push bar bumpers. If someone hits the brakes and starts to turn with no turn signal, we should be able to just plow them out of the way. Someone turns a corner doing 30 then slows down to 20 right in front of you after watching you approach from a half mile away, POW, plow them out of the way. If your cruise is set to 60mph and there is not an open lane to get over in, and there is room in front of you and behind you but yet a merging car makes you speed up or slow down to avoid them smashing into you, FO GET BOUT TIT, BAM, plow them out of the way. Someone is driving 55 in a 60 for 5 miles in the fast lane on a highway, KAPOWIE, Plow them out of the way.

    I guess I could be considered a little aggresive and intollerent of people who should not be on the road. Dont worry though, I carry maxed out limits on my insurance.
    heheh, a man after my own heart

    even worse is driving a big, invulnerable vehicle and not being able to use it
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    Ride a MC for a while; THAT makes you be aware of what is going on. I've learned to read drivers like a book. You better learn to like Crow, cuz being a biker, you'll be eating a lot of it!
    Tell me about it I ride my bike (MC) even now in this weather. I found that drivers do behave themselves a little better when you are open carrying. Some drivers don't like sharing the road with Bikers. It is better than it used to be, but I think Canadians aren't as used to bikers on the road as the U.S. drivers.

    I was the "victim" a few months ago, removed my gun from holster because I was trapped and the aggressor was coming at me, I didn't show it, it's amazing what goes through your head, at that moment. Fortunately for him and me he heeded my warning to "Just Go, Now!"
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 12-28-2010 at 10:28 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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  16. #16
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Traffic in Pugetopia will get to a guy...

    Five plus years ago I took my family and left the lovely green Mecca of the Obama stickered Subaru and empty Metro buses that I fondly call Pugetopia. Today I look back with shudders at the driving I was forced into daily. Puyallup to Everett to fix phones?!? Oh well, I survived but I don't miss it at all.

    I was around several incidents over the years but not since we moved. There was one guy I watched drive repeatedly into the car ahead of him in stop and go on 405. I got to stop and talk with Trooper McNolte and share my $.02 as a witness on that nutroll's breakdown. The guy must have been foaming at the mouth by the way he was driving.

    That's one of the many reasons I never travel unarmed. Crazed wolves and not a sheepdog in sight most of the time.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    Five plus years ago I took my family and left the lovely green Mecca of the Obama stickered Subaru and empty Metro buses that I fondly call Pugetopia. Today I look back with shudders at the driving I was forced into daily. Puyallup to Everett to fix phones?!? Oh well, I survived but I don't miss it at all.

    I was around several incidents over the years but not since we moved. There was one guy I watched drive repeatedly into the car ahead of him in stop and go on 405. I got to stop and talk with Trooper McNolte and share my $.02 as a witness on that nutroll's breakdown. The guy must have been foaming at the mouth by the way he was driving.

    That's one of the many reasons I never travel unarmed. Crazed wolves and not a sheepdog in sight most of the time.
    +1 I'm with ya on not missing the traffic. I drove the Renton S curves in the late 80's daily from Des Moines to Issaqua, I got to know people on a first name basis. I love the 70 MPH on 182, although Rush hour does slow me down to 65...
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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  18. #18
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    ... and empty Metro buses...
    EMPTY metro busses? All the ones I ever see are packed to the gills!
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  19. #19
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    EMPTY metro busses? All the ones I ever see are packed to the gills!
    Only at rush hours. The rest of the time they run the streets mostly empty. Mostly to give the drivers something to do. Too bad they can't just schedule them for the hours that the buses would be at least 50% or more filled.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  20. #20
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Not talking about Bigfoot...

    Yes, empty Metro buses do actually exist. I've seen 'em. Used to ride them when I lived in Pugetopia in the bad old days. Plus, here's the kicker, I still get to subsidize those empty miles from over here in Kennewick... Be still my pounding heart.

    I see the point in moving people by bus, and I understand that folks with no car will need to get out and about, especially on the I-5 corridor, but I resented paying for them and still do. Sorry, but I would also react strongly if someone came up and took my wallet with a gun rather than using the power of the State. Shades of gray? Maybe.

    I like what Benton Franklin transit does here: the buses stop running at 6pm and they open a $3 a ride service at 7pm using a local taxi vendor's cars. You have to share the ride but it is door to door and it doesn't cost a fortune. Also puts that money (plus a much smaller subsidy) back into my home town. Local is better.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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  21. #21
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Yes, empty Metro buses do actually exist. I've seen 'em.
    I once rode on a Seattle to Tacoma express bus and was the only passenger......

  22. #22
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    I once rode on a Seattle to Tacoma express bus and was the only passenger......
    I've passed buses on the Freeway where the Driver is the only one aboard and they are on a regular "route", not just returning to the base.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  23. #23
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    Gads, reminds me of the old days (a decade ago) when I drove from Oly to Seattle VA every day for work...I do NOT miss that drive, I can tell you.

    Worst case I saw was a truck than came onto I-5 and caused an SUV to have to brake. Oh, the poor guy had to slow down, so he carefully follows the truck into the commuter lane, gets in front of him and slams on his brakes, hard! The truck (lifted 4x4) had no choice but to do an emergency stop at 60 mph...needless to say, he almost lost control of his truck. Must have scared the crap out of the guy in the SUV...he high tailed it out of there with several people following him with cell phones in hand...

    People need to realize that the interstate is NOT NASCAR. You don't get extra points for passing cars, for "leading the race" or anything else. Arriving alive is the mission.

    The speed limit is the law, and I am required to obey the law. If you want to pass me, go right ahead and do so. Don't honk, flash your lights or tailgate. It acts as a tractor beam and just slows my car/truck down... The closer you get to me, the slower I have to go to ensure I can stop safely and not get rear ended...

  24. #24
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    I've passed buses on the Freeway where the Driver is the only one aboard and they are on a regular "route", not just returning to the base.
    Careful there, might just have been a driver who forgot to change his headsign, especially on the freeway. Curious to know when (as in what time of day and how long ago) all these empty bus spottings were. I'm on the road 8-10 hours a day, and I just about never see an empty bus unless it's near the start or end of service. Especially down in metroland, I see tons of 60-foot artics with people packed in like sardines.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneeyeross View Post
    The speed limit is the law, and I am required to obey the law. If you want to pass me, go right ahead and do so. Don't honk, flash your lights or tailgate. It acts as a tractor beam and just slows my car/truck down... The closer you get to me, the slower I have to go to ensure I can stop safely and not get rear ended...
    One quick interjection here. Someone behind you flashing their lights (at least in Europe) is supposed to be a courteous gesture meaning "please move over, I'd like to pass. The other side to that coin is people who drive too slow in the left lane without reason. That too creates a safety hazard and impedes the flow of traffic.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    One quick interjection here. Someone behind you flashing their lights (at least in Europe) is supposed to be a courteous gesture meaning "please move over, I'd like to pass. The other side to that coin is people who drive too slow in the left lane without reason. That too creates a safety hazard and impedes the flow of traffic.
    When I was stationed in Germany it was absolutely illegal to pass on the right-period. Because of that people kept to the right except when they were passing. With no speed limit on the autobahn, except in cities, people kept to the right or they were literally run over by someone coming up on them at close to 200 Kph. (about 120 in Mph.) It was fun to drive the a-bahn.

    On the buses, I have a "cuz" that is a Metro Driver. He's told of numerous runs that he's all alone on.

    Peak hours are filled but the off hours rarely fill a bus unless there is an "event".

    We just "love our cars" here in the PNW and we are light years behind the rest of the world in public transit. Never had to own a car in Europe. Borrowed or rented for the 2-3 times per year I needed one. Could go from right outside my quarters to anywhere in Europe without more than a few hundred yard walk at any given time. From bus to train station to local train to streetcar to bus or cheap taxi's. Made no sense to own a car and pay outrageous costs for insurance and fuel.
    Last edited by amlevin; 12-31-2010 at 03:04 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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