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Thread: UOCing on community college campus

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    UOCing on community college campus

    Hi!

    I'm 19, and I'm somewhat confused about the UOC law with respect to universities. I was recently assaulted in broad daylight at Cerritos College, and I'm seriously considering UOCing. I know the law requires I secure the written permission of an official authorized to authorize me to UOC. Who would that be? The president, the campus PD?

    Obviously, I'd rather UOC a .357 magnum Ruger New Model Blackhawk revolver, but I'm not sure if you need to be 21 to possess it, or just 21 to buy it.

    Thanks!

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    No offense here, but if you have these questions it means you haven't read much about UOC. These are common questions that are addressed in several different info resources. Read and learn more, then do it again.

    Welcome to the forums.

    I honestly meant no offense. I'm not trying to be rude at all, there is a lot to learn and your bound to screw yourself and the UOC community if you mess it up.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtykoala View Post
    No offense here, but if you have these questions it means you haven't read much about UOC. These are common questions that are addressed in several different info resources. Read and learn more, then do it again.

    Welcome to the forums.

    I honestly meant no offense. I'm not trying to be rude at all, there is a lot to learn and your bound to screw yourself and the UOC community if you mess it up.
    Thanks.

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    626.9 Cannot carry “in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know” is within 1000 feet of a K-12 school. Must be transported
    unloaded in a locked case or vehicle trunk. Cannot carry on the grounds of a university without written permission.

    So, it seems to me that I'd be alright if I secure the written permission of some college official.

    Who would I ask to grant me such permission?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman2050 View Post
    626.9 Cannot carry “in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know” is within 1000 feet of a K-12 school. Must be transported
    unloaded in a locked case or vehicle trunk. Cannot carry on the grounds of a university without written permission.

    So, it seems to me that I'd be alright if I secure the written permission of some college official.

    Who would I ask to grant me such permission?
    PC 626.9

    (h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
    possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or
    buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research,
    or administration by, a public or private university or college, that
    are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
    is with the written permission of the university or college
    president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
    authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
    two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
    university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
    entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
    prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.

    (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
    possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings
    owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or
    administration by, a public or private university or college, that
    are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
    is with the written permission of the university or college
    president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
    authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
    one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
    university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
    entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
    prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sons of Liberty View Post
    PC 626.9

    (h) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
    possesses a loaded firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or
    buildings owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research,
    or administration by, a public or private university or college, that
    are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
    is with the written permission of the university or college
    president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
    authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
    two, three, or four years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
    university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
    entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
    prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.

    (i) Notwithstanding Section 12026, any person who brings or
    possesses a firearm upon the grounds of a campus of, or buildings
    owned or operated for student housing, teaching, research, or
    administration by, a public or private university or college, that
    are contiguous or are clearly marked university property, unless it
    is with the written permission of the university or college
    president, his or her designee, or equivalent university or college
    authority, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for
    one, two, or three years. Notwithstanding subdivision (k), a
    university or college shall post a prominent notice at primary
    entrances on noncontiguous property stating that firearms are
    prohibited on that property pursuant to this subdivision.
    So I ask the college's president. I see her every day, and I could easily make an appointment to discuss my concerns.

    After that, "all" I need to do is get my CA ID (currently my only official ID is a US Passport), HSC, convince my Mom to buy me a used .357 magnum revolver, holster, speedloader, etc., and have her write out a short letter explaining she's loaning it to me for personal protection purposes.

    So I'd need to carry in my wallet the written permission statement plus the letter saying Mom is loaning me the handgun.

    Correct?

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    I'll try to find the laws later, but iirc, your mom can't "buy a gun for you" as that would be a straw hat purchase, she could own a gun and decide she doesn't want it and give it to you. You can own a handgun at 18, just not purchase one. I also think you can't borrow a gun for more than 30 days. The biggest obstacle is probably going to be convincing the school sup. That you should be allowed to have rights on campus, bigtoe is having enough problems having the sup. permit him access to his constitutional rights in the city.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman2050 View Post
    So I ask the college's president. I see her every day, and I could easily make an appointment to discuss my concerns.

    After that, "all" I need to do is get my CA ID (currently my only official ID is a US Passport), HSC, convince my Mom to buy me a used .357 magnum revolver, holster, speedloader, etc., and have her write out a short letter explaining she's loaning it to me for personal protection purposes.

    So I'd need to carry in my wallet the written permission statement plus the letter saying Mom is loaning me the handgun.

    Correct?
    You might want to first make the request to the college president to see if she will give you written permission. It will save you time and money from having to look into the other things.

    I'm guessing that she will politely decline your request.

    If you even get an appointment with her, I would venture to guess that she might invite the head of campus police or have local police with her...especially if you were assaulted. My guess is that they will dissuade her from considering such a notion. They will take down your name, get a description of the assualt, and assure you that they will keep a close eye on you so that nothing like that happens in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtykoala View Post
    I'll try to find the laws later, but iirc, your mom can't "buy a gun for you" as that would be a straw hat purchase, she could own a gun and decide she doesn't want it and give it to you. You can own a handgun at 18, just not purchase one. I also think you can't borrow a gun for more than 30 days. The biggest obstacle is probably going to be convincing the school sup. That you should be allowed to have rights on campus, bigtoe is having enough problems having the sup. permit him access to his constitutional rights in the city.
    Ah, so she could purchase it, then file an intra-familial transfer form. The president seems like an understanding person, and if it turns out she says no, I'll just keep in crowded areas.

    What would you suggest as a good, well-reasoned argument to convince her? Other than the known fact that I was violently attacked on campus, with no means to defend myself, in a crowded area, and no-one bothered to help me? And the fact I have to go to class early in the morning, when there aren't many people around, and I'm leaving myself open to being attacked/kidnapped.
    Last edited by Protoman2050; 12-28-2010 at 01:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtykoala View Post
    I'll try to find the laws later, but iirc, your mom can't "buy a gun for you" as that would be a straw hat MAN purchase, she could own a gun and decide she doesn't want it and give it to you.
    Fixed it for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman2050 View Post
    Ah, so she could purchase it, then file an intra-familial transfer form. The president seems like an understanding person, and if it turns out she says no, I'll just keep in crowded areas.

    What would you suggest as a good, well-reasoned argument to convince her? Other than the known fact that I was violently attacked on campus, with no means to defend myself, in a crowded area, and no-one bothered to help me? And the fact I have to go to class early in the morning, when there aren't many people around, and I'm leaving myself open to being attacked/kidnapped.
    I think this is one of those situations in which the gun may not be the right tool for the job. Schools are often crowded communities, and a shot fired by a less than disciplined fireman might just end up taking out one of your classmates who is just minding their own business. From what I can gather, it doesn't sound like you are a marksman or even a novice with a handgun, so before I went to the dean with a carelessly crafted resume, I'd hold back and get some training and some practical experience first. In the interim, get the over-the-counter remedies such as pepper spray, stun gun, and noisemakers. Just my personal opinion, but I don't think a college authority will grant such a request without a stellar history of firearm possession and regular use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Fixed it for you.
    Maybe he just had pizza for dinner

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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
    I think this is one of those situations in which the gun may not be the right tool for the job. Schools are often crowded communities, and a shot fired by a less than disciplined fireman might just end up taking out one of your classmates who is just minding their own business. From what I can gather, it doesn't sound like you are a marksman or even a novice with a handgun, so before I went to the dean with a carelessly crafted resume, I'd hold back and get some training and some practical experience first. In the interim, get the over-the-counter remedies such as pepper spray, stun gun, and noisemakers. Just my personal opinion, but I don't think a college authority will grant such a request without a stellar history of firearm possession and regular use.
    I intend on getting my handgun after completing marksmanship training at my local shooting range (as Mom practices her shotgun regularly, and the range offers training for $40/hr), and I'd keep Glaser Safety Slugs as my ammo to minimize ricocheting.

    Until then, I'm going to keep a good distance between me and people in "gangsta" clothing
    Last edited by Protoman2050; 12-28-2010 at 02:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtykoala View Post
    I'll try to find the laws later, but iirc, your mom can't "buy a gun for you" as that would be a straw hat MAN purchase, she could own a gun and decide she doesn't want it and give it to you.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Fixed it for you.
    I fixed it for you ConditionThree.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    From DOJ don't lie website.
    What is a straw purchase?

    A straw purchase is an illegal firearm purchase where the actual buyer of the gun, being unable to pass the required federal background check or desiring to not have his or her name associated with the transaction, uses a proxy buyer who can pass the required background check to purchase the firearm for him/her. It is highly illegal and punishable by a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
    Maybe he just had pizza for dinner
    HAH..nice pull! I didn't realize they were still around. The San Diego Straw Hat Pizza shut down when i was a little kid. I remember they had awesome arcade games like "Double Dragon" and a really fuzzy wall projection big screen.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Hmmmm.... Soberly reviewing this, I don't know why I said straw hat, haha. I was eating pizza though. And jack Daniels. Maybe he wore a straw hat?
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Your parent or grandparent can buy a firearm and immediately gift it to you. If it's a handgun, they must file the intrafamily transfer form. It's perfectly legal to gift a firearm to a family member. Straw purchases are only committed when the person buying the firearm is doing it on behalf of someone who is legally prohibited from possessing firearms (convicted felons, etc). An 18 year old with a clean criminal record is not prohibited from possessing any firearms. Federal law currently restricts firearm purchases from FFL dealers to people 21 and older, with exception for 18 year olds buying rifles or shotguns. But again, it's not illegal for a parent to buy their child a firearm and gift it to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtykoala View Post
    I'll try to find the laws later, but iirc, your mom can't "buy a gun for you" as that would be a straw hat purchase
    That's a common misconception dk - its perfectly legal for someone to buy a gun for someone else as a gift provided they do it with their own (or communal) money. My wife has legally bought me several firearms. The process would be the same for a parent to a child.

    Calguns Wiki Straw Purchase

    Alternatively, a parent can gift a handgun to their adult child via intrafamillial transfer (which you already mentioned)
    CalGuns Wiki Intrafamily Transfer

    OP, you're biggest difficulty is going to be securing permission - You may have greater success obtaining a CCW or looking into LUCC

    CalGuns.net CCW Search

    Calguns.net LUCC Search

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    That's a common misconception dk - its perfectly legal for someone to buy a gun for someone else as a gift provided they do it with their own (or communal) money. My wife has legally bought me several firearms. The process would be the same for a parent to a child.

    Calguns Wiki Straw Purchase

    Alternatively, a parent can gift a handgun to their adult child via intrafamillial transfer (which you already mentioned)
    CalGuns Wiki Intrafamily Transfer

    OP, you're biggest difficulty is going to be securing permission - You may have greater success obtaining a CCW or looking into LUCC

    CalGuns.net CCW Search

    Calguns.net LUCC Search
    Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry would be perfect. Do they make biometrically-locked containers I can wear on my belt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman2050 View Post
    Hi!
    I'm 19, and I'm somewhat confused about the UOC law with respect to universities. I was recently assaulted in broad daylight at Cerritos College, and I'm seriously considering UOCing. I know the law requires I secure the written permission of an official authorized to authorize me to UOC. Who would that be? The president, the campus PD?

    Obviously, I'd rather UOC a .357 magnum Ruger New Model Blackhawk revolver, but I'm not sure if you need to be 21 to possess it, or just 21 to buy it.
    Thanks!

    Now, unless I am greatly mistaken, no authorization is going to be issued to you from a school head to UOC. So, forget that. Your chance of getting to CC on campus may be more obtainable, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. It's been brought up, but I want to hit on it again. Do you want to take the chance of having a stray bullet hit some innocent bystander and killing them? What if several people are hit by stray bullets? What if your bullet hits a young man or woman who is a spouse as well as a parent? Do you want to live with that haunting you the rest of your life?

    Now consider this, you have already been attacked and obviously survived. Is being assaulted reason enough to kill someone? Should you be attacked again, do you want to take the responsibility of pulling a firearm and shooting your assailant when the assailant may have nothing more in mind than beating you up, or taking your money, or just scaring you? You do not want to pull your firearm unless you intend to kill someone with it. Is that what you want as your choice should you be attacked again? The decision to draw a firearm and using it is predicated on the "belief" that your life is being threatened and, should the perpetrator succeed, you will die or will be severely injured. In my opinion, anything less than that does not warrant the use of a firearm.

    You should take your own advice. Stay with groups of people. You should walk with friends to and from classes. Never walk alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    Now, unless I am greatly mistaken, no authorization is going to be issued to you from a school head to UOC. So, forget that. Your chance of getting to CC on campus may be more obtainable, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. It's been brought up, but I want to hit on it again. Do you want to take the chance of having a stray bullet hit some innocent bystander and killing them? What if several people are hit by stray bullets? What if your bullet hits a young man or woman who is a spouse as well as a parent? Do you want to live with that haunting you the rest of your life?

    Now consider this, you have already been attacked and obviously survived. Is being assaulted reason enough to kill someone? Should you be attacked again, do you want to take the responsibility of pulling a firearm and shooting your assailant when the assailant may have nothing more in mind than beating you up, or taking your money, or just scaring you? You do not want to pull your firearm unless you intend to kill someone with it. Is that what you want as your choice should you be attacked again? The decision to draw a firearm and using it is predicated on the "belief" that your life is being threatened and, should the perpetrator succeed, you will die or will be severely injured. In my opinion, anything less than that does not warrant the use of a firearm.

    You should take your own advice. Stay with groups of people. You should walk with friends to and from classes. Never walk alone.
    The issue is that I often have to go to school in the early morning or late night, when there are few people around for me to walk with. I plan on taking a CCW training course and applying for a permit.

    Obviously, I'd only use the firearm if an attacker cornered me.

    And yes, I am willing to take the risk of missing...it's better I miss than remain unarmed and get killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    Do you want to take the chance of having a stray bullet hit some innocent bystander and killing them? What if several people are hit by stray bullets? What if your bullet hits a young man or woman who is a spouse as well as a parent? Do you want to live with that haunting you the rest of your life?

    If we're using that as our primary criteria, no-one should carry...
    Last edited by PavePusher; 12-29-2010 at 12:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    Do you want to take the chance of having a stray bullet hit some innocent bystander and killing them? What if several people are hit by stray bullets? What if your bullet hits a young man or woman who is a spouse as well as a parent? Do you want to live with that haunting you the rest of your life?
    You're talking to one who used to fly B-52s laden with 20 ALCMs, and I was the one with the button in my hand (well, the keys beneath my fingertips, as I did the final programming to launch them).

    Hundreds of kilotons. Each. Could I live with that, knowing I'd killed millions?

    Yes. Why? How? Because I knew the system. I knew the hurdles, the safeguards, the barriers which must be breached before a launch order would ever have been given, and I knew the infinitessimal liklihood that would ever happen if it weren't the real thing.

    When it comes to one man, one firearm, however, the only one who can know one's own safeguards, hurdles, and barriers, is the one holding the firearm.

    I know mine, and I'll bet I'm somewhat distinct in that I long ago penciled out a decision matrix that I'd follow (almost) no matter what, and every time I go to the range I think about some of the more likely things I might experience as well as how I'd respond.

    How is this different from law enforcement training? Very little, actually, as they run through similar scenarios in their training all the time. In fact, I use their firing criteria myself at the range, at least to the extent possible I can without having the benefit of popup targets, variable barriers, and other real-world scenarios. Ten bucks for the afternoon doesn't buy much!

    Thankfully, our goals remain similar, although mine stop at protecting self and others from harm. Their mandate goes further, into taking down the bad guys, and more power to them. I've been there, done that, on a slightly larger, but no less important scale, so I fully understand their decisions they make every day with respect with what they may have to do that day, and with what they might have to live with.

    It's not a decision I took lightly. I'm sure it's not a decision most of them take lightly, either.
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    As for UOCing or AOCing (let's keep it simple and call it "OCing") on any campus...

    How in the world is that any different from my OCing in and among the tens if not hundreds of men, women, and children at McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Burger King, Dave's Bar-B-Que, Target, K-Mart, Shell, Chevron, BP, Red Lobster, Radio Shack, Lowes, Home Depot, King Supers, IHOP, Kroger...

    It doesn't. The only difference, as Yoda said, is in one's mind...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Would the fact I have to leave for school while still dark be "Good Cause" for a CCW?

    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    As for UOCing or AOCing (let's keep it simple and call it "OCing") on any campus...

    How in the world is that any different from my OCing in and among the tens if not hundreds of men, women, and children at McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Burger King, Dave's Bar-B-Que, Target, K-Mart, Shell, Chevron, BP, Red Lobster, Radio Shack, Lowes, Home Depot, King Supers, IHOP, Kroger...

    It doesn't. The only difference, as Yoda said, is in one's mind...
    Would the fact I have to leave for school while it's still dark, where there's not too many people around to assist me in case of an attack, be "Good Cause" for a CCW?

    I also have to accompany my Dad on his work (marine cargo insurance surveyor) at the port, which while he is escorted to and from the ship, I am left alone outside the TWIC area to watch the car. This often happens at night, and we have to pass through high crime areas.

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