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Thread: URGENT*** Need Statues

  1. #1
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    URGENT*** Need Statues

    I'm 18 years old. Today I went to my Sherrifs office to get a pistol perchase permit to buy a hundgun from a private party(my father). The desk clerk was willing and handed me the form to fill out, I filled out the first couple of lines before Joe Blow said "you cannont buy a handgun or get the permit because you aren't 21". It is my understanding that at 18, I can perchase, or be gifted a handgun form a private part. Of course, I can't go into a store and purchase from an FFL. I told him this but he wasn't having it. The helpful desk clerk said I'll go check, left for a minute and asked someone came back, said I was right and to keep filling out the form. The guy left for a minute, came back and said that his source said I'm wrong. I respectfully made it know that we were in disagreement, and he told me to come back Thursday. In my other thread, 'under 21 carry', a couple of people said that they open carry and have gotten PPP. I need some something from the GA that references this so I can prove my case. Thanks.


    EDIT: I need Statutes, not Statues
    Last edited by CDT COX; 12-28-2010 at 03:24 PM.

  2. #2
    mattwestm
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    The bad thing about these pistol purchase permits is that each county has different rules for how long it takes and the requirements to get one. The application for permits in Wake county is completely different from the Pitt county application. Some counties will give you one within a few minutes, while others make you wait a week. I do recall one member saying that his sheriff gave him a permit under 21, but the sheriff also wanted the make and model of the gun to make sure he was only using it for a private sale. When I was under 21, I "borrowed" a few of my dads handguns.

    Why don't we just make it easier for everyone and abolish this jim crow law pistol purchase permit nonsense. Obviously someone still thinks they are a good idea (probably the county that makes $5/permit)

  3. #3
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    § 14‑269.7. Prohibitions on handguns for minors.

    (a) Any minor who possesses or carries a handgun is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

    (b) This section does not apply:

    (1) To officers and enlisted personnel of the armed forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties or acting under orders requiring them to carry handguns.

    (2) To a minor who possesses a handgun for educational or recreational purposes while the minor is supervised by an adult who is present.

    (3) To an emancipated minor who possesses such handgun inside his or her residence.

    (4) To a minor who possesses a handgun while hunting or trapping outside the limits of an incorporated municipality if he has on his person written permission from a parent, guardian, or other person standing in loco parentis.

    (c) The following definitions apply in this section:

    (1) Handgun. – A firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be fired by the use of a single hand, or any combination of parts from which such a firearm can be assembled.

    (2) Minor. – Any person under 18 years of age. (1993, c. 259, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 5; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 597, s. 1.)

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    § 14‑404. Issuance or refusal of permit; appeal from refusal; grounds for refusal; sheriff's fee.

    (a) Upon application, the sheriff shall issue the license or permit to a resident of that county, unless the purpose of the permit is for collecting, in which case a sheriff can issue a permit to a nonresident, when the sheriff has done all of the following:

    (1) Verified, before the issuance of a permit, by a criminal history background investigation that it is not a violation of State or federal law for the applicant to purchase, transfer, receive, or possess a handgun. The sheriff shall determine the criminal and background history of any applicant by accessing computerized criminal history records as maintained by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by conducting a national criminal history records check, by conducting a check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and by conducting a criminal history check through the Administrative Office of the Courts.

    (2) Fully satisfied himself or herself by affidavits, oral evidence, or otherwise, as to the good moral character of the applicant.

    (3) Fully satisfied himself or herself that the applicant desires the possession of the weapon mentioned for (i) the protection of the home, business, person, family or property, (ii) target shooting, (iii) collecting, or (iv) hunting.

    (b) If the sheriff is not fully satisfied, the sheriff may, for good cause shown, decline to issue the license or permit and shall provide to the applicant within seven days of the refusal a written statement of the reason(s) for the refusal. An appeal from the refusal shall lie by way of petition to the chief judge of the district court for the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal, and shall be final.

    (c) A permit may not be issued to the following persons:

    (1) (Effective until February 1, 2011) One who is under an indictment or information for or has been convicted in any state, or in any court of the United States, of a felony (other than an offense pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, or restraints of trade). However, a person who has been convicted of a felony in a court of any state or in a court of the United States and who is later pardoned may obtain a permit, if the purchase or receipt of a pistol or crossbow permitted in this Article does not violate a condition of the pardon.

    (1) (Effective February 1, 2011) One who is under an indictment or information for or has been convicted in any state, or in any court of the United States, of a felony (other than an offense pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, or restraints of trade). However, a person who has been convicted of a felony in a court of any state or in a court of the United States and (i) who is later pardoned, or (ii) whose firearms rights have been restored pursuant to G.S. 14‑415.4, may obtain a permit, if the purchase or receipt of a pistol or crossbow permitted in this Article does not violate a condition of the pardon or restoration of firearms rights.

    (2) One who is a fugitive from justice.

    (3) One who is an unlawful user of or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug (as defined in 21 U.S.C. § 802).

    (4) One who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or has been committed to any mental institution.

    (5) One who is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States.

    (6) One who has been discharged from the armed forces under dishonorable conditions.

    (7) One who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.

    (8) One who is subject to a court order that:

    a. Was issued after a hearing of which the person received actual notice, and at which the person had an opportunity to participate;

    b. Restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of the person or child of the intimate partner of the person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and

    c. Includes a finding that the person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of the intimate partner or child; or by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury.

    (d) Nothing in this Article shall apply to officers authorized by law to carry firearms if the officers identify themselves to the vendor or donor as being officers authorized by law to carry firearms and state that the purpose for the purchase of the firearms is directly related to the law officers' official duties.

    (e) The sheriff shall charge for the sheriff's services upon issuing the license or permit a fee of five dollars ($5.00).

    (f) Each applicant for a license or permit shall be informed by the sheriff within 30 days of the date of the application whether the license or permit will be granted or denied and, if granted, the license or permit shall be immediately issued to the applicant.

    (g) An applicant shall not be ineligible to receive a permit under subdivision (c)(4) of this section because of involuntary commitment to mental health services if the individual's rights have been restored under G.S. 122C‑54.1. (1919, c. 197, s. 3; C.S., s. 5108; 1959, c. 1073, s. 2; 1969, c. 73; 1981 (Reg. Sess., 1982), c. 1395, s. 1; 1987, c. 518, s. 1; 1995, c. 487, s. 2; 2006‑39, s. 1; 2006‑264, s. 4; 2008‑210, s. 3(a); 2009‑570, s. 7; 2010‑108, s. 4.)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  4. #4
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Round 2:

    I went in to the Sheriff's office today to try again. I came fully prepared, had the statues in my hands, the application form filled out with three character refrences(one is a judge), ready to talk to the Sheriff himself. Sure enough, the guy that held me up last time was at the desk. He said you have to be 21 and showed me a paper that said "How old must you be to purchase a firearm in NC" under that it said 21 for a hand gun, 18 for rifle and shotgun. Mind you, this paper refrenced no statutes and was in Times New Roman font. Basically, it looked like something he typed up himself after I left Tuesday. I showed him my statutes, refrenced and printed directly from the NCGA, stating that for a pistol purchase permit to be issued the applicant must pass a background check and be of good moral standing. The statute makes no mention of age. I also showed him the one stating that I must have a permit to recieve a handgun, and even the one showing it is legal for an 18yo to possess a handgun.

    My blood started to boil a bit when he refused to even consider my standpoint and continued to take his piece of paper as gospel. It was obvious I would make no headway with self-proclaimed supreme court judge. He told me if I wanted to plead my case infront of the Sheriff I could when the sheriff returns Monday. I replied with a big smile and 'Nothing would make me happier' then left.

  5. #5
    mattwestm
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    Thats the problem with these pistol purchase permits and CHPs in NC. There are 100 different counties, each with 100 different requirements and wait times. I wish we could adopt a statewide system similar to how SC does it. No PPP required and CHPs are done through the state law enforcement division. This prevents different requirements and different prices.

  6. #6
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    i wonder. if you could get the judge that is one of your references to write a letter stating his opinion that you are not prohibited by law from reviving a purchase permit.... ie you could show the sheriff that a Judge disagrees with his departments interpretation of the law

    i know you have the reference but a letter specificity stating that denying you a permit solely b/c your 18 may be a violation of NC's shall issue policy
    GO PIRATES!!!!!

  7. #7
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    here is a statue

    Very appropriate statue indeed. *insert tongue in cheek*



    Seriously though, I wish you luck and may the favor of the law be with you. I am subscribing to this thread so please post updates.
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  8. #8
    bgreene89
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    Okay

    I am here to tell you good news hopefully me and my dad run a gun shop here in N.C.. No you can't buy a gun from a FFLD (Federal Firearms Lisenced Dealer), but I believe you can buy one from an individual and carry one! I will find these statutes,and I will be back up here sometime tonight to post the laws. I will give you the federal and state laws to take with you so you can argue with god himself. I know where you are coming from I use to be a carrier under 21. They think you can't do sh1t under 21, will I got news for them your grown, and you can the law says it, but ill double check, and be back.



    Manager Of Blake's Guns & Sports Supplies,
    Blake
    Last edited by bgreene89; 12-30-2010 at 08:58 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Good News: more evidence for my case, special thanks to hotrod8812

  10. #10
    bgreene89
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    Laws

    Here is all the laws I could find the links are below each one. Print all these out from the links and take with with you circle everything you see about a handgun or mark it somehow so you can find each thing. And go monday and come back with your PPP. Because I have found nothing that says you cant obtain it. All i found was you cant get a concealed weapons permit or buy a gun from an FFLD.


    Some are federal laws some are state the federal is mostly too the top.


    Manager of Blake's Guns & Sports Supplies,
    Blake



    FEDERAL LAW
    The Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C.
    Chapter 44, provides in pertinent part as follows:
    18 U.S.C. 922(x)
    (x)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to
    sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person
    who the transferor knows or has reasonable
    cause to believe is a juvenile—
    (A) a handgun; or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use
    only in a handgun.
    (2) It shall be unlawful for any person who
    is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
    (A) a handgun; or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use
    only in a handgun.
    (3) This subsection does not apply to—
    (A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or
    ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession
    or use of a handgun or ammunition by
    a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition
    are possessed and used by the juvenile—
    (i) in the course of employment, in the
    course of ranching or farming related to activities
    at the residence of the juvenile (or
    on property used for ranching or farming at
    which the juvenile, with the permission of
    the property owner or lessee, is performing
    activities related to the operation of the
    farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a
    course of instruction in the safe and lawful
    use of a handgun;
    (ii) with the prior written consent of the
    juvenile’s parent or guardian who is not prohibited
    by Federal, State, or local law from
    possessing a firearm, except—
    (I) during transportation by the juvenile of
    an unloaded handgun in a locked container
    directly from the place of transfer to a place
    at which an activity described in clause (i) is
    to take place and transportation by the juvenile
    of that handgun, unloaded and in a
    locked container, directly from the place at
    which such an activity took place to the
    transferor; or
    (II) with respect to ranching or farming activities
    as described in clause (i) a juvenile
    may possess and use a handgun or ammunition
    with the prior written approval of the
    juvenile’s parent or legal guardian and at the
    direction of an adult who is not prohibited
    by Federal, State, or local law from possessing
    a firearm;
    (iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent
    in the juvenile’s possession at all times
    when a handgun is in the possession of the
    juvenile; and
    (iv) in accordance with State and local law;
    (B) a juvenile who is a member of the
    Armed Forces of the United States or the
    National Guard who possesses or is armed
    with a handgun in the line of duty;
    (C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but
    not possession) of a handgun or ammunition
    to a juvenile; or
    (D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition
    by a juvenile taken in defense of the
    juvenile or other persons against an intruder
    into the residence of the juvenile or a residence
    in which the juvenile is an invited
    guest.
    (4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession
    of which is transferred to a juvenile in
    circumstances in which the transferor is not
    in violation of this subsection shall not be
    subject to permanent confiscation by the
    Government if its possession by the juvenile
    subsequently becomes unlawful because of
    the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned
    to the lawful owner when such handgun
    or ammunition is no longer required by
    the Government for the purposes of investigation
    or prosecution.
    (5) For purposes of this subsection, the
    term ‘‘juvenile’’ means a person who is less
    than 18 years of age.
    (6)(A) In a prosecution of a violation of this
    subsection, the court shall require the presence
    of a juvenile defendant’s parent or legal
    guardian at all proceedings.
    (B) The court may use the contempt power
    to enforce subparagraph (A).
    (C) The court may excuse attendance of a
    parent or legal guardian of a juvenile defendant
    at a proceeding in a prosecution of a violation
    of this subsection for good cause
    shown.
    18 U.S.C. 924(a)(6)
    (6)(A)(i) A juvenile who violates section
    922(x) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned
    not more than 1 year, or both, except
    that a juvenile described in clause (ii) shall
    be sentenced to probation on appropriate
    conditions and shall not be incarcerated unless
    the juvenile fails to comply with a condition
    of probation.
    (ii) A juvenile is described in this clause
    if—
    VerDate(I) the offense of which the juvenile is
    charged is possession of a handgun or ammunition
    in violation of section 922(x)(2); and
    (II) the juvenile has not been convicted in
    any court of an offense (including an offense
    under section 922(x) or a similar State law,
    but not including any other offense consisting
    of conduct that if engaged in by an
    adult would not constitute an offense) or adjudicated
    as a juvenile delinquent for conduct
    that if engaged in by an adult would
    constitute an offense.
    (B) A person other than a juvenile who
    knowingly violates section 922(x)—
    (i) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned
    not more than 1 year, or both; and
    (ii) if the person sold, delivered, or otherwise
    transferred a handgun or ammunition
    to a juvenile knowing or having reasonable
    cause to know that the juvenile intended to
    carry or otherwise possess or discharge or
    otherwise use the handgun or ammunition in
    the commission of a crime of violence, shall
    be fined under this title, imprisoned not
    more than 10 years, or both.
    (c) This written notification shall be
    delivered to the nonlicensee on ATF I
    5300.2, or in the alternative, the same
    written notification may be delivered
    to the nonlicensee on another type of
    written notification, such as a manufacturer’s
    or importer’s brochure accompanying
    the handgun; a manufacturer’s
    or importer’s operational manual
    accompanying the handgun; or a
    sales receipt or invoice applied to the
    handgun package or container delivered
    to a nonlicensee. Any written notification
    delivered to a nonlicensee
    other than on ATF I 5300.2 shall include
    the language set forth in paragraph (b)
    of this section in its entirety. Any
    written notification other than ATF I
    5300.2 shall be legible, clear, and conspicuous,
    and the required language
    shall appear in type size no smaller
    than 10-point type.
    (d) Except as provided in paragraph
    (f) of this section, each licensed importer,
    manufacturer, or dealer who delivers
    a handgun to a nonlicensee shall
    display at its licensed premises (including
    temporary business locations at
    gun shows) a sign as described in paragraph
    (e) of this section. The sign shall
    be displayed where customers can readily
    see it. Licensed importers, manufacturers,
    and dealers will be provided
    with such signs by ATF. Replacement
    signs may be requested from the ATF
    Distribution Center.(e) The sign (ATF I 5300.1) required
    by paragraph (d) of this section shall
    state as follows:
    (1) The misuse of handguns is a leading
    contributor to juvenile violence and fatalities.
    (2) Safely storing and securing firearms
    away from children will help prevent the unlawful
    possession of handguns by juveniles,
    stop accidents, and save lives.
    (3) Federal law prohibits, except in certain
    limited circumstances, anyone under 18
    years of age from knowingly possessing a
    handgun, or any person from transferring a
    handgun to a person under 18.
    (4) A knowing violation of the prohibition
    against selling, delivering, or otherwise
    transferring a handgun to a person under the
    age of 18 is, under certain circumstances,
    punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
    NOTE: ATF I 5300.2 provides the complete
    language of the statutory prohibitions and
    exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(x) and
    the penalty provisions of 18 U.S.C. 924(a)(6).
    The Federal firearms licensee posting this
    sign will provide you with a copy of this publication
    upon request. Requests for additional
    copies of ATF I 5300.2 should be mailed
    to the ATF Distribution Center, P.O. Box
    5950, Springfield, Virginia 22150–5950.
    (f) The sign required by paragraph (d)
    of this section need not be posted on
    the premises of any licensed importer,
    manufacturer, or dealer whose only
    dispositions of handguns to nonlicensees
    are to nonlicensees who do
    not appear at the licensed premises and
    the dispositions otherwise comply with
    the provisions of this part.
    [T.D. ATF–402, 63 FR 37742, July 13, 1998]

    that link is here
    http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...cfr478.103.pdf

    (b) Sales or deliveries to underaged persons.
    A licensed importer, licensed
    manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
    collector shall not sell or deliver
    (1) any firearm or ammunition to
    any individual who the importer, manufacturer,
    dealer, or collector knows or
    has reasonable cause to believe is less
    than 18 years of age, and, if the firearm,
    or ammunition, is other than a
    shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a
    shotgun or rifle, to any individual who
    the importer, manufacturer, dealer, or
    collector knows or has reasonable
    cause to believe is less than 21 years of
    age, or (2) any firearm to any person in
    any State where the purchase or possession
    by such person of such firearm
    would be in violation of any State law
    or any published ordinance applicable
    at the place of sale, delivery, or other
    disposition, unless the importer, manufacturer,
    dealer, or collector knows or
    has reasonable cause to believe that
    the purchase or possession would not
    be in violation of such State law or
    such published ordinance

    link below
    http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr478.99.pdf

    § 14‑315. Selling or giving weapons to minors.

    (a) Sale of Weapons Other Than Handguns. – If a person sells, offers for sale, gives, or in any way transfers to a minor any pistol cartridge, brass knucks, bowie knife, dirk, shurikin, leaded cane, or slungshot, the person is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor and, in addition, shall forfeit the proceeds of any sale made in violation of this section.

    (a1) Sale of Handguns. – If a person sells, offers for sale, gives, or in any way transfers to a minor any handgun as defined in G.S. 14‑269.7, the person is guilty of a Class H felony and, in addition, shall forfeit the proceeds of any sale made in violation of this section. This section does not apply in any of the following circumstances:

    (1) The handgun is lent to a minor for temporary use if the minor's possession of the handgun is lawful under G.S. 14‑269.7 and G.S. 14‑316 and is not otherwise unlawful.

    (2) The handgun is transferred to an adult custodian pursuant to Chapter 33A of the General Statutes, and the minor does not take possession of the handgun except that the adult custodian may allow the minor temporary possession of the handgun in circumstances in which the minor's possession of the handgun is lawful under G.S. 14‑269.7 and G.S. 14‑316 and is not otherwise unlawful.

    (3) The handgun is a devise or legacy and is distributed to a parent or guardian under G.S. 28A‑22‑7, and the minor does not take possession of the handgun except that the parent or guardian may allow the minor temporary possession of the handgun in circumstances in which the minor's possession of the handgun is lawful under G.S. 14‑269.7 and G.S. 14‑316 and is not otherwise unlawful.

    (b) Repealed by Session Laws 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 597, s. 2.

    (b1) Defense. – It shall be a defense to a violation of this section if all of the following conditions are met:

    (1) The person shows that the minor produced an apparently valid permit to receive the weapon, if such a permit would be required under G.S. 14‑402 or G.S. 14‑409.1 for transfer of the weapon to an adult.

    (2) The person reasonably believed that the minor was not a minor.

    (3) The person either:

    a. Shows that the minor produced a drivers license, a special identification card issued under G.S. 20‑37.7, a military identification card, or a passport, showing the minor's age to be at least the required age for purchase and bearing a physical description of the person named on the card reasonably describing the minor; or

    b. Produces evidence of other facts that reasonably indicated at the time of sale that the minor was at least the required age. (1893, c. 514; Rev., s. 3832; C.S., s. 4440; 1985, c. 199; 1993, c. 259, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 217; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 597, s. 2; 1996, 2nd Ex. Sess., c. 18, s. 20.13(b).)

    link
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl...gs_14-315.html

    § 14‑404. Issuance or refusal of permit; appeal from refusal; grounds for refusal; sheriff's fee.

    (a) Upon application, the sheriff shall issue the license or permit to a resident of that county, unless the purpose of the permit is for collecting, in which case a sheriff can issue a permit to a nonresident, when the sheriff has done all of the following:

    (1) Verified, before the issuance of a permit, by a criminal history background investigation that it is not a violation of State or federal law for the applicant to purchase, transfer, receive, or possess a handgun. The sheriff shall determine the criminal and background history of any applicant by accessing computerized criminal history records as maintained by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by conducting a national criminal history records check, by conducting a check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and by conducting a criminal history check through the Administrative Office of the Courts.

    (2) Fully satisfied himself or herself by affidavits, oral evidence, or otherwise, as to the good moral character of the applicant.

    (3) Fully satisfied himself or herself that the applicant desires the possession of the weapon mentioned for (i) the protection of the home, business, person, family or property, (ii) target shooting, (iii) collecting, or (iv) hunting.

    (b) If the sheriff is not fully satisfied, the sheriff may, for good cause shown, decline to issue the license or permit and shall provide to the applicant within seven days of the refusal a written statement of the reason(s) for the refusal. An appeal from the refusal shall lie by way of petition to the chief judge of the district court for the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal, and shall be final.

    (c) A permit may not be issued to the following persons:

    (1) (Effective until February 1, 2011) One who is under an indictment or information for or has been convicted in any state, or in any court of the United States, of a felony (other than an offense pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, or restraints of trade). However, a person who has been convicted of a felony in a court of any state or in a court of the United States and who is later pardoned may obtain a permit, if the purchase or receipt of a pistol or crossbow permitted in this Article does not violate a condition of the pardon.

    (1) (Effective February 1, 2011) One who is under an indictment or information for or has been convicted in any state, or in any court of the United States, of a felony (other than an offense pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, or restraints of trade). However, a person who has been convicted of a felony in a court of any state or in a court of the United States and (i) who is later pardoned, or (ii) whose firearms rights have been restored pursuant to G.S. 14‑415.4, may obtain a permit, if the purchase or receipt of a pistol or crossbow permitted in this Article does not violate a condition of the pardon or restoration of firearms rights.

    (2) One who is a fugitive from justice.

    (3) One who is an unlawful user of or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug (as defined in 21 U.S.C. § 802).

    (4) One who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or has been committed to any mental institution.

    (5) One who is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States.

    (6) One who has been discharged from the armed forces under dishonorable conditions.

    (7) One who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.

    (8) One who is subject to a court order that:

    a. Was issued after a hearing of which the person received actual notice, and at which the person had an opportunity to participate;

    b. Restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of the person or child of the intimate partner of the person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and

    c. Includes a finding that the person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of the intimate partner or child; or by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury.

    (d) Nothing in this Article shall apply to officers authorized by law to carry firearms if the officers identify themselves to the vendor or donor as being officers authorized by law to carry firearms and state that the purpose for the purchase of the firearms is directly related to the law officers' official duties.

    (e) The sheriff shall charge for the sheriff's services upon issuing the license or permit a fee of five dollars ($5.00).

    (f) Each applicant for a license or permit shall be informed by the sheriff within 30 days of the date of the application whether the license or permit will be granted or denied and, if granted, the license or permit shall be immediately issued to the applicant.

    (g) An applicant shall not be ineligible to receive a permit under subdivision (c)(4) of this section because of involuntary commitment to mental health services if the individual's rights have been restored under G.S. 122C‑54.1. (1919, c. 197, s. 3; C.S., s. 5108; 1959, c. 1073, s. 2; 1969, c. 73; 1981 (Reg. Sess., 1982), c. 1395, s. 1; 1987, c. 518, s. 1; 1995, c. 487, s. 2; 2006‑39, s. 1; 2006‑264, s. 4; 2008‑210, s. 3(a); 2009‑570, s. 7; 2010‑108, s. 4.)

    link
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl...gs_14-404.html

    Article 39.

    Protection of Minors.

    § 14‑313. Youth access to tobacco products.

    (a) Definitions. – The following definitions apply in this section:

    (1) Distribute. – To sell, furnish, give, or provide tobacco products, including tobacco product samples, or cigarette wrapping papers to the ultimate consumer.

    (2) Proof of age. – A drivers license or other photographic identification that includes the bearer's date of birth that purports to establish that the person is 18 years of age or older.

    (3) Sample. – A tobacco product distributed to members of the general public at no cost for the purpose of promoting the product.

    (4) Tobacco product. – Any product that contains tobacco and is intended for human consumption.

    (b) Sale or distribution to persons under the age of 18 years. – If any person shall distribute, or aid, assist, or abet any other person in distributing tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers to any person under the age of 18 years, or if any person shall purchase tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers on behalf of a person, less than 18 years, the person shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor; provided, however, that it shall not be unlawful to distribute tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers to an employee when required in the performance of the employee's duties. Retail distributors of tobacco products shall prominently display near the point of sale a sign in letters at least five‑eighths of an inch high which states the following:



    N.C. LAW STRICTLY PROHIBITS



    THE PURCHASE OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS



    BY PERSONS UNDER THE AGE OF 18.



    PROOF OF AGE REQUIRED.



    Failure to post the required sign shall be an infraction punishable by a fine of twenty‑five dollars ($25.00) for the first offense and seventy‑five dollars ($75.00) for each succeeding offense.

    A person engaged in the sale of tobacco products shall demand proof of age from a prospective purchaser if the person has reasonable grounds to believe that the prospective purchaser is under 18 years of age. Failure to demand proof of age as required by this subsection is a Class 2 misdemeanor if in fact the prospective purchaser is under 18 years of age. Retail distributors of tobacco products shall train their sales employees in the requirements of this law. Proof of any of the following shall be a defense to any action brought under this subsection:

    (1) The defendant demanded, was shown, and reasonably relied upon proof of age in the case of a retailer, or any other documentary or written evidence of age in the case of a nonretailer.

    (2) The defendant relied on the electronic system established and operated by the Division of Motor Vehicles pursuant to G.S. 20‑37.02.

    (3) The defendant relied on a biometric identification system that demonstrated (i) the purchaser's age to be at least the required age for the purchase and (ii) the purchaser had previously registered with the seller or seller's agent a drivers license, a special identification card issued under G.S. 20‑377.7, a military identification card, or a passport showing the purchaser's date of birth and bearing a physical description of the person named on the card.

    (b1) Vending machines. – Tobacco products shall not be distributed in vending machines; provided, however, vending machines distributing tobacco products are permitted (i) in any establishment which is open only to persons 18 years of age and older; or (ii) in any establishment if the vending machine is under the continuous control of the owner or licensee of the premises or an employee thereof and can be operated only upon activation by the owner, licensee, or employee prior to each purchase and the vending machine is not accessible to the public when the establishment is closed. The owner, licensee, or employee shall demand proof of age from a prospective purchaser if the person has reasonable grounds to believe that the prospective purchaser is under 18 years of age. Failure to demand proof of age as required by this subsection is a Class 2 misdemeanor if in fact the prospective purchaser is under 18 years of age. Proof that the defendant demanded, was shown, and reasonably relied upon proof of age shall be a defense to any action brought under this subsection. Vending machines distributing tobacco products in establishments not meeting the above conditions shall be removed prior to December 1, 1997. Any person distributing tobacco products through vending machines in violation of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

    (c) Purchase by persons under the age of 18 years. – If any person under the age of 18 years purchases or accepts receipt, or attempts to purchase or accept receipt, of tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers, or presents or offers to any person any purported proof of age which is false, fraudulent, or not actually his or her own, for the purpose of purchasing or receiving any tobacco product or cigarette wrapping papers, the person shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

    (d) Send or assist person less than 18 years to purchase or receive tobacco product. – If any person shall send a person less than 18 years of age to purchase, acquire, receive, or attempt to purchase, acquire, or receive tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers, or if any person shall aid or abet a person who is less than 18 years of age in purchasing, acquiring, or receiving or attempting to purchase, acquire, or receive tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers, the person shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor; provided, however, persons under the age of 18 may be enlisted by police or local sheriffs' departments to test compliance if the testing is under the direct supervision of that law enforcement department and written parental consent is provided; provided further, that the Department of Health and Human Services shall have the authority, pursuant to a written plan prepared by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, to use persons under 18 years of age in annual, random, unannounced inspections, provided that prior written parental consent is given for the involvement of these persons and that the inspections are conducted for the sole purpose of preparing a scientifically and methodologically valid statistical study of the extent of success the State has achieved in reducing the availability of tobacco products to persons under the age of 18, and preparing any report to the extent required by section 1926 of the federal Public Health Service Act (42 USC § 300x‑26).

    (e) Statewide uniformity. – It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe this uniform system for the regulation of tobacco products to ensure the eligibility for and receipt of any federal funds or grants that the State now receives or may receive relating to the provisions of G.S. 14‑313. To ensure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules or regulations concerning the sale, distribution, display or promotion of tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers on or after September 1, 1995. This subsection does not apply to the regulation of vending machines, nor does it prohibit the Secretary of Revenue from adopting rules with respect to the administration of the tobacco products taxes levied under Article 2A of Chapter 105 of the General Statutes.

    (f) Deferred prosecution. – Notwithstanding G.S. 15A‑1341(a1), any person charged with a misdemeanor under this section shall be qualified for deferred prosecution pursuant to Article 82 of Chapter 15A of the General Statutes provided the defendant has not previously been placed on probation for a violation of this section and so states under oath. (1891, c. 276; Rev., s. 3804; C.S., s. 4438; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1991, c. 628, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 216; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1995, c. 241, s. 1; 1997‑434, ss. 1‑6; 1997‑443, s. 11A.118(a); 2001‑461, s. 5; 2002‑159, s. 5; 2005‑350, s. 6(b).)



    § 14‑314. Repealed by Session Laws 1971, c. 31.



    § 14‑315. Selling or giving weapons to minors.

    (a) Sale of Weapons Other Than Handguns. – If a person sells, offers for sale, gives, or in any way transfers to a minor any pistol cartridge, brass knucks, bowie knife, dirk, shurikin, leaded cane, or slungshot, the person is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor and, in addition, shall forfeit the proceeds of any sale made in violation of this section.

    (a1) Sale of Handguns. – If a person sells, offers for sale, gives, or in any way transfers to a minor any handgun as defined in G.S. 14‑269.7, the person is guilty of a Class H felony and, in addition, shall forfeit the proceeds of any sale made in violation of this section. This section does not apply in any of the following circumstances:

    (1) The handgun is lent to a minor for temporary use if the minor's possession of the handgun is lawful under G.S. 14‑269.7 and G.S. 14‑316 and is not otherwise unlawful.

    (2) The handgun is transferred to an adult custodian pursuant to Chapter 33A of the General Statutes, and the minor does not take possession of the handgun except that the adult custodian may allow the minor temporary possession of the handgun in circumstances in which the minor's possession of the handgun is lawful under G.S. 14‑269.7 and G.S. 14‑316 and is not otherwise unlawful.

    (3) The handgun is a devise or legacy and is distributed to a parent or guardian under G.S. 28A‑22‑7, and the minor does not take possession of the handgun except that the parent or guardian may allow the minor temporary possession of the handgun in circumstances in which the minor's possession of the handgun is lawful under G.S. 14‑269.7 and G.S. 14‑316 and is not otherwise unlawful.

    (b) Repealed by Session Laws 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 597, s. 2.

    (b1) Defense. – It shall be a defense to a violation of this section if all of the following conditions are met:

    (1) The person shows that the minor produced an apparently valid permit to receive the weapon, if such a permit would be required under G.S. 14‑402 or G.S. 14‑409.1 for transfer of the weapon to an adult.

    (2) The person reasonably believed that the minor was not a minor.

    (3) The person either:

    a. Shows that the minor produced a drivers license, a special identification card issued under G.S. 20‑37.7, a military identification card, or a passport, showing the minor's age to be at least the required age for purchase and bearing a physical description of the person named on the card reasonably describing the minor; or

    b. Produces evidence of other facts that reasonably indicated at the time of sale that the minor was at least the required age. (1893, c. 514; Rev., s. 3832; C.S., s. 4440; 1985, c. 199; 1993, c. 259, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 217; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 597, s. 2; 1996, 2nd Ex. Sess., c. 18, s. 20.13(b).)



    § 14‑315.1. Storage of firearms to protect minors.

    (a) Any person who resides in the same premises as a minor, owns or possesses a firearm, and stores or leaves the firearm (i) in a condition that the firearm can be discharged and (ii) in a manner that the person knew or should have known that an unsupervised minor would be able to gain access to the firearm, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor if a minor gains access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parents or a person having charge of the minor and the minor:

    (1) Possesses it in violation of G.S. 14‑269.2(b);

    (2) Exhibits it in a public place in a careless, angry, or threatening manner;

    (3) Causes personal injury or death with it not in self defense; or

    (4) Uses it in the commission of a crime.

    (b) Nothing in this section shall prohibit a person from carrying a firearm on his or her body, or placed in such close proximity that it can be used as easily and quickly as if carried on the body.

    (c) This section shall not apply if the minor obtained the firearm as a result of an unlawful entry by any person.

    (d) "Minor" as used in this section means a person under 18 years of age who is not emancipated. (1993, c. 558, s. 2; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 11.)



    § 14‑315.2. Warning upon sale or transfer of firearm to protect minor.

    (a) Upon the retail commercial sale or transfer of any firearm, the seller or transferor shall deliver a written copy of G.S. 14‑315.1 to the purchaser or transferee.

    (b) Any retail or wholesale store, shop, or sales outlet that sells firearms shall conspicuously post at each purchase counter the following warning in block letters not less than one inch in height the phrase: "IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE OR LEAVE A FIREARM THAT CAN BE DISCHARGED IN A MANNER THAT A REASONABLE PERSON SHOULD KNOW IS ACCESSIBLE TO A MINOR."

    (c) A violation of subsection (a) or (b) of this section is a Class 1 misdemeanor. (1993, c. 558, s. 2; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 12.)



    § 14‑316. Permitting young children to use dangerous firearms.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any parent, guardian, or person standing in loco parentis, to knowingly permit his child under the age of 12 years to have the possession, custody or use in any manner whatever, any gun, pistol or other dangerous firearm, whether such weapon be loaded or unloaded, except when such child is under the supervision of the parent, guardian or person standing in loco parentis. It shall be unlawful for any other person to knowingly furnish such child any weapon enumerated herein. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

    (b) Air rifles, air pistols, and BB guns shall not be deemed "dangerous firearms" within the meaning of subsection (a) of this section except in the following counties: Anson, Caldwell, Caswell, Chowan, Cleveland, Cumberland, Durham, Forsyth, Gaston, Harnett, Haywood, Mecklenburg, Stanly, Stokes, Surry, Union, Vance. (1913, c. 32; C.S., s. 4441; 1965, c. 813; 1971, c. 309; 1993, c. 539, s. 218; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    § 14‑316.1. Contributing to delinquency and neglect by parents and others.

    Any person who is at least 16 years old who knowingly or willfully causes, encourages, or aids any juvenile within the jurisdiction of the court to be in a place or condition, or to commit an act whereby the juvenile could be adjudicated delinquent, undisciplined, abused, or neglected as defined by G.S. 7B‑101 and G.S. 7B‑1501 shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    It is not necessary for the district court exercising juvenile jurisdiction to make an adjudication that any juvenile is delinquent, undisciplined, abused, or neglected in order to prosecute a parent or any person, including an employee of the Department of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention under this section. An adjudication that a juvenile is delinquent, undisciplined, abused, or neglected shall not preclude a subsequent prosecution of a parent or any other person including an employee of the Department of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, who contributes to the delinquent, undisciplined, abused, or neglected condition of any juvenile. (1919, c. 97, s. 19; C.S., s. 5057; 1959, c. 1284; 1969, c. 911, s. 4; 1971, c. 1180, s. 5; 1979, c. 692; 1983, c. 175, ss. 8, 10; c. 720, s. 4; 1993, c. 539, s. 219; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1997‑443, s. 11A.118(a); 1998‑202, s. 4(b); 2000‑137, s. 4.(c).)



    § 14‑317. Permitting minors to enter barrooms or billiard rooms.

    If the manager or owner of any barroom, wherein beer, wine, or any alcoholic beverages are sold or consumed, or billiard room shall knowingly allow any minor under 18 years of age to enter or remain in such barroom or billiard room, where before such minor under 18 years of age enters or remains in such barroom or billiard room, the manager or owner thereof has been notified in writing by the parents or guardian of such minor under 18 years of age not to allow him to enter or remain in such barroom or billiard room, he shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. (1897, c. 278; Rev., s. 3729; C.S., s. 4442; 1967, c. 1089; 1993, c. 539, s. 220; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    § 14‑318. Exposing children to fire.

    If any person shall leave any child under the age of eight years locked or otherwise confined in any dwelling, building or enclosure, and go away from such dwelling, building or enclosure without leaving some person of the age of discretion in charge of the same, so as to expose the child to danger by fire, the person so offending shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. (1893, c. 12; Rev., s. 3795; C.S., s. 4443; 1983, c. 175, s. 9, 10, c. 720, s. 4; 1993, c. 539, s. 221; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    § 14‑318.1. Discarding or abandoning iceboxes, etc.; precautions required.

    It shall be unlawful for any person, firm or corporation to discard, abandon, leave or allow to remain in any place any icebox, refrigerator or other container, device or equipment of any kind with an interior storage area of more than one and one‑half cubic feet of clear space which is airtight, without first removing the door or doors or hinges from such icebox, refrigerator, container, device or equipment. This section shall not apply to any icebox, refrigerator, container, device or equipment which is being used for the purpose for which it was originally designed, or is being used for display purposes by any retail or wholesale merchant, or is crated, strapped or locked to such an extent that it is impossible for a child to obtain access to any airtight compartment thereof. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. (1955, c. 305; 1993, c. 539, s. 222; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    § 14‑318.2. Child abuse a misdemeanor.

    (a) Any parent of a child less than 16 years of age, or any other person providing care to or supervision of such child, who inflicts physical injury, or who allows physical injury to be inflicted, or who creates or allows to be created a substantial risk of physical injury, upon or to such child by other than accidental means is guilty of the Class A1 misdemeanor of child abuse.

    (b) The Class A1 misdemeanor of child abuse is an offense additional to other civil and criminal provisions and is not intended to repeal or preclude any other sanctions or remedies.

    (c) A parent who abandons an infant less than seven days of age pursuant to G.S. 14‑322.3 shall not be prosecuted under this section for any acts or omissions related to the care of that infant. (1965, c. 472, s. 1; 1971, c. 710, s. 6; 1993, c. 539, s. 223; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 13; c. 24, s. 14(c); 2001‑291, s. 4; 2008‑191, s. 1; 2009‑570, s. 6.)



    § 14‑318.3. Repealed by Session Laws 1971, c. 710, s. 7.



    § 14‑318.4. Child abuse a felony.

    (a) A parent or any other person providing care to or supervision of a child less than 16 years of age who intentionally inflicts any serious physical injury upon or to the child or who intentionally commits an assault upon the child which results in any serious physical injury to the child is guilty of a Class E felony, except as otherwise provided in subsection (a3) of this section.

    (a1) Any parent of a child less than 16 years of age, or any other person providing care to or supervision of the child, who commits, permits, or encourages any act of prostitution with or by the child is guilty of child abuse and shall be punished as a Class E felon.

    (a2) Any parent or legal guardian of a child less than 16 years of age who commits or allows the commission of any sexual act upon the child is guilty of a Class E felony.

    (a3) A parent or any other person providing care to or supervision of a child less than 16 years of age who intentionally inflicts any serious bodily injury to the child or who intentionally commits an assault upon the child which results in any serious bodily injury to the child, or which results in permanent or protracted loss or impairment of any mental or emotional function of the child, is guilty of a Class C felony.

    (a4) A parent or any other person providing care to or supervision of a child less than 16 years of age whose willful act or grossly negligent omission in the care of the child shows a reckless disregard for human life is guilty of a Class E felony if the act or omission results in serious bodily injury to the child.

    (a5) A parent or any other person providing care to or supervision of a child less than 16 years of age whose willful act or grossly negligent omission in the care of the child shows a reckless disregard for human life is guilty of a Class H felony if the act or omission results in serious physical injury to the child.

    (b) The felony of child abuse is an offense additional to other civil and criminal provisions and is not intended to repeal or preclude any other sanctions or remedies.

    (c) Abandonment of an infant less than seven days of age pursuant to G.S. 14‑322.3 may be treated as a mitigating factor in sentencing for a conviction under this section involving that infant.

    (d) The following definitions apply in this section:

    (1) Serious bodily injury. – Bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death or that causes serious permanent disfigurement, coma, a permanent or protracted condition that causes extreme pain, or permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ, or that results in prolonged hospitalization.

    (2) Serious physical injury. – Physical injury that causes great pain and suffering. The term includes serious mental injury. (1979, c. 897, s. 1; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1316, s. 18; 1981, c. 63, s. 1; c. 179, s. 14; 1983, c. 653, s. 1; c. 916, § 1; 1985, c. 509, s. 5; c. 668; 1993, c. 539, s. 1233; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1999‑451, s. 1; 2001‑291, s. 5; 2008‑191, s. 2.)



    § 14‑319. Repealed by Session Laws 1975, c. 402.



    § 14‑320. Repealed by Session Laws 1987, c. 716, s. 2.



    § 14‑320.1. Transporting child outside the State with intent to violate custody order.

    When any federal court or state court in the United States shall have awarded custody of a child under the age of 16 years, it shall be a felony for any person with the intent to violate the court order to take or transport, or cause to be taken or transported, any such child from any point within this State to any point outside the limits of this State or to keep any such child outside the limits of this State. Such crime shall be punishable as a Class I felony. Provided that keeping a child outside the limits of the State in violation of a court order for a period in excess of 72 hours shall be prima facie evidence that the person charged intended to violate the order at the time of taking. (1969, c. 81; 1979, c. 760, s. 5; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1316, s. 47; 1981, c. 63, s. 1, c. 179, s. 14; 1983, c. 563, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 1234; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    § 14‑321. Failing to pay minors for doing certain work.

    Whenever any person, having a contract with any corporation, company or person for the manufacture or change of any raw material by the piece or pound, shall employ any minor to assist in the work upon the faith of and by color of such contract, with intent to cheat and defraud such minor, and, having secured the contract price, shall willfully fail to pay the minor when he shall have performed his part of the contract work, whether done by the day or by the job, the person so offending shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. (1893, c. 309; Rev., s. 3428a; C.S., s. 4446; 1993, c. 539, s. 224; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    § 14‑321.1. Prohibit baby sitting service by sex offender or in the home of a sex offender.

    (a) For purposes of this section the term "baby sitting service" means providing, for profit, supervision or care for a child under the age of 13 years who is unrelated to the provider by blood, marriage, or adoption, for more than two hours per day while the child's parents or guardian are not on the premises.

    (b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person who is an adult may provide or offer to provide a baby sitting service in any of the following circumstances:

    (1) The baby sitting service is offered in a home and a resident of the home is a sex offender who is registered in accordance with Article 27A of Chapter 14 of the General Statutes.

    (2) A provider of care for the baby sitting service is a sex offender who is registered in accordance with Article 27A of Chapter 14 of the General Statutes.

    (c) A violation of this section that is a first offense is a Class 1 misdemeanor. A violation of this section that is a second or subsequent offense is a Class H felony. (2005‑416, s. 4.)

    link
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl...rticle_39.html

  11. #11
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Whoa buddy...

    Quote Originally Posted by bgreene89 View Post
    SNIP
    Here is all the laws I could find the links are below each one.
    In the future just give links please.
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
    And the Sultans...
    Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

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  12. #12
    Regular Member Resto Guy's Avatar
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    What county is this happening in?

  13. #13
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    I'd rather not say until this issue is resolved.

  14. #14
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    I understand. Good luck to you. It's a damned shame that citizens have to educate "law enforcement" people on what the law is.

  15. #15
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Round 3:

    I'm livid right now. Today I made my third trip to the Sheriff's office to get a PPP to receive a handgun from my father. I walked up to the desk and was happy to see the clerk that is on my side working the desk, unfortunately, the other guy was in back there also, before I could even get 'Good Afternoon' out of my mouth, the guy said 'one minute' and disappeared to find the Sheriff.

    As I waited, (probably 4-5 minutes) the desk clerk and I made small talk, she asked how long I'd lived in the county, if I was in school, ect. Nice lady for sure. Anyway, the Sheriff comes out into the lobby and asks in a rather rude tone 'Are you Mr. X' I said yes, shook his hand, introduced myself, asked how he was doing, being as nice as anyone could possibly be. He kept the short, you're wasting my time tone and said 'Listen, I'm not going to grant you the permit, plain and simple, even if you have the law stating I'm able to, I will not give one to you because you're 18." He didn't even invite me to speak in his office, I asked If I could plead my case, give him my reasons for needing the permit, prove I was of good moral character, and pass a background check. He wasn't having it. He said I'll look but it’s still not gonna happen, then he glanced at my evidence for maybe a total of 45 seconds. He read the part about how I can appeal to the Chief Judge of the district court and told me to take it up with him. I left without getting his signature stating that he denied my application

    I sure hope he isn't too busy tomorrow denying citizens their rights because per his application he has to do a background check, then deny my application and notify me within 7 days in writing his reason for denial. Can't wait to start the appeal process.

  16. #16
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: LEO Bashing.

  17. #17
    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    It is entirely beyond me why anyone in this country would have a default positive view of law enforcement, short of being ignorant or a r'tard. I'm sorry you're getting the shaft, mate. Sounds like you've got a campaign to replace the Sheriff in your future.

    Why don't we just drop the facade and spell it "Sharif"? Oh, right, because racist a-holes would think it's a slur against Muslims and adopt it in a hurry. Nevermind, carry on.
    I have a default positive of LE. I find your post offensive and uninformed. I'm not ignorant nor a retard.

    I served 21 years in the Armed Forces and believe in the Rule of Law. Your proclamation of anarchy is insulting at it's lowest form, you then throw out the racist card. Immature at best....and you call yourself a responsible gun owner?

    What we'd LIKE TO SEE is a more dedicated educated LE. THAT'S what this forum is about.

    Stay in Dallas, please.

    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Inappropriate.
    Last edited by razor_baghdad; 01-04-2011 at 06:13 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Resto Guy's Avatar
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    Maybe you and your father should exchange Christmas gifts. You can give him an envelope with cash in it, and he can give you a gift in return.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    FYI you can legally 'posess' at 18 without owning.

    That's not to say you should accept what the Sheriff is doing, I'm all for proving him wrong.
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
    And the Sultans...
    Yeah the Sultans, they play Creole"

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  20. #20
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    FYI you can legally 'posess' at 18 without owning.

    That's not to say you should accept what the Sheriff is doing, I'm all for proving him wrong.
    I'm aware that I can posess at 18. I need the permit to receive the handgun as a gift. I want it to be mine so I can report it stolen, answer yes if ever asked by leo if it is mine, ect. I'm going to start the appeal process tomorrow, my voice will be heard.

  21. #21
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    It is entirely beyond me why anyone in this country would have a default positive view of law enforcement, short of being ignorant or a r'tard. I'm sorry you're getting the shaft, mate. Sounds like you've got a campaign to replace the Sheriff in your future.

    Why don't we just drop the facade and spell it "Sharif"? Oh, right, because racist a-holes would think it's a slur against Muslims and adopt it in a hurry. Nevermind, carry on.
    Although in this instance I'm displeased with what is happening, I'd rather you not paint every LEO and Agency with the same brush. I've had plenty of positive encounters with Law Enforcement. For instance, one time I’d run out of gas while it was raining. A local PD officer road by, turned around and asked if everything was okay and offered to take me to a gas station. I also umpire Little League and have done games with other personnel from that department.

    Quote Originally Posted by razor_baghdad View Post
    @ CDT COX........BUY A FVCKING DVR!!!!!!! 35$ and all your problems disappear......wtf.

  22. #22
    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    DIGITAL VOICE RECORDER $$$$ 35.00

    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...ection=digital

    You record his convo so that he cannot go back on his word in front of a judge. Problem solved, judge says issue the permit.

    Last edited by razor_baghdad; 01-04-2011 at 07:11 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    IANAL, and it's probably too early to be thinking seriously about this, but it's always a good idea to keep the possibility of a 1983 Denial of Civil Rights lawsuit in the back of your mind. This Sheriff, acting under the color of law (in his official capacity) is denying you your lawful civil right to own a firearm.

    There are many people who have learned the very hard way that this is a no-no.

    As I said, just something to keep in mind... document everything. Talk to a lawyer, at least casually at first.

    TFred

    P.S. If you can some how get him to put in writing a denial that does not fall under the letter of the law, I'd say that paper is worth its weight in gold!
    Last edited by TFred; 01-04-2011 at 07:17 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    IANAL, and it's probably too early to be thinking seriously about this, but it's always a good idea to keep the possibility of a 1983 Denial of Civil Rights lawsuit in the back of your mind. This Sheriff, acting under the color of law (in his official capacity) is denying you your lawful civil right to own a firearm.

    There are many people who have learned the very hard way that this is a no-no.

    As I said, just something to keep in mind... document everything. Talk to a lawyer, at least casually at first.

    TFred


    P.S. If you can some how get him to put in writing a denial that does not fall under the letter of the law, I'd say that paper is worth its weight in gold!
    Thanks for the info, according to § 14‑404 (b) If the sheriff is not fully satisfied, the sheriff may, for good cause shown, decline to issue the license or permit and shall provide to the applicant within seven days of the refusal a written statement of the reason(s) for the refusal. An appeal from the refusal shall lie by way of petition to the chief judge of the district court for the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal, and shall be final.

    Maybe the Sheriff will mess up in his written statement, regardless I believe that I will prevail as prescribed my the bolded. Facts: I'll pass the required background check(not even a speeding ticket on my record), I'm of good moral standing (ARMY ROTC Cadet, Eagle Scout, multiple mission trips). Law: The law states I need the permit to receive the handgun(No mention of age anywhere in the Statutes, unless you are a minor). Reasonableness of refusal: Although I'm old enough to vote, defend the Constitution of The US, have contracted with the DoD, and it is lawful, he refuses because of my age?

  25. #25
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor_baghdad View Post
    I have a default positive of LE. I find your post offensive and uninformed. I'm not ignorant nor a retard.

    I served 21 years in the Armed Forces and believe in the Rule of Law. Your proclamation of anarchy is insulting at it's lowest form, you then throw out the racist card. Immature at best....and you call yourself a responsible gun owner?
    You're naive, at best, my friend. I'm not trying to be pejorative. Law enforcement is an arm of government, and as the founders of this nation believed, government is to be mistrusted and warded against at all times. That any given person is endowed with the power to rescind your freedoms at his or her discretion should be terrifying to you, whether you believe it's necessary or not. At minimum you should be skeptical of the motives of law enforcement, as they are granted a priori presumption of honesty in a court of law, even though they're exactly as human, and therefore fallible, as you or me, and they are given precisely zero more scrutiny with regard to trustworthiness than anyone else before being rewarded with a badge and a gun. On top of this theoretically-deserved skepticism, it is demonstrated on a daily basis that there are countless law enforcement "officers" (you should scoff at that mis-accreditation, being ex-mil) who are among the worst of society's power-mad scoff-laws. Whether these represent a majority or a minority, their sheer number, and the utter ubiquity with which other so-called LEOs cover for their misdeeds, should give any rational citizen tremendous pause before granting them default deference, let alone respect.

    I heartily endorse your belief in the rule of law. All the more reason not to give automatic respect to law enforcement. They, more than any other member of society, are best equipped and positioned to abrogate it.

    Finally, the second paragraph of my previous post had nothing to do with the first paragraph. Yard Sale should try to oust the lawless bastard who holds the position of Sheriff. Also, and unrelated, there are a crap load of racist a-holes in this country who automatically associate Islam with terrorism. To hell with those people. My joke about Sheriff vs Sharif was a comment on the unabridged and extralegal power of law enforcement in this country. Then I realized that some ******* would think I was endorsing racism, so I made a point about that.

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