Where is the VCDL 2011 Legislative Agenda? We need to watch for it and rate it.

Mr. Y · Dec 31, 2010

Everyone should try not to be underwhelmed. We've basically mortally wounded the Great Satan- the restaurant ban on concealed carry. The issue now is very complex, where to go from here. While everyone here has opinions on what should be done next somebody has to carry those bills. I've seen quite a few legislative sessions where my personal priorities weren't highlighted, and some where we had some really good bills. The trick here is to please give the full backing to the pro-gun bills even if they're not high on your personal priority list.

Success tends to snowball so even if the bill seems small in significance, showing political success is a long term strategy that will someday pay dividends politically.

peter nap · Dec 31, 2010

Mr. Y said:
Everyone should try not to be underwhelmed. We've basically mortally wounded the Great Satan- the restaurant ban on concealed carry. The issue now is very complex, where to go from here. While everyone here has opinions on what should be done next somebody has to carry those bills. I've seen quite a few legislative sessions where my personal priorities weren't highlighted, and some where we had some really good bills. The trick here is to please give the full backing to the pro-gun bills even if they're not high on your personal priority list.

Success tends to snowball so even if the bill seems small in significance, showing political success is a long term strategy that will someday pay dividends politically.

There are a couple more factors this year, not the least is if Saslaw and Marsh will have the Death Committee.
There are two camps on that.
Some feel that because of the coming election, it will not be there.

My feeling is different. Many legislators were relieved last year because it took the pressure off of them. They didn't have to take a position because the committee stopped the bills dead.

I don't see where that has changed. I may be wrong though.

Mr. Y · Dec 31, 2010

Tess said:
You probably still won't have an answer. You probably won't get it until a couple of days before the GA opens, at best.

There's a reason.

NOTE: My opinion only; this is not a VCDL-approved response.

Any activist organization needs to put out a consistent message. Philip and the Board have been soliciting our opinions constantly. There comes a point at which they have to prioritize, suggest wording, and find legislators to carry the bills. If VCDL is unable to find a legislator to carry a high-priority item, it tends to get put off. No matter how badly we may want something, the time to make it our #1 with no support is NOT at the beginning of the legislative session. Nor should the organization advertise "We want X but can't have it so we're going with A, B, and C." The agenda has to match up with what can be accomplished during a given time frame.

The time for working on the other items - the ones no one will step up to carry - is during the election season, not during the legislative season. That's when we must find people who agree with us on priorities, get them elected, and get coalitions formed so the bills can realistically be presented and passed.

The way VCDL continues to be successful is by understanding there's a time and place for things.

While none of us may find our #1 priorities addressed, we have to understand that sometimes the foundation is necessary first. If you can find a legislator to carry your #1 priority to the GA, please, do so. Just don't do it in VCDL's name; only one person is authorized to speak for the organization. That's another way to keep the organization focused and successful. You may believe you speak on behalf of thousands of gun owners, and it would be wise to convince your bill-carrier of that, but don't misrepresent yourself.

And, there is an equal and opposing opinion that generating support for legislative priorities occurs long before the legislative session begins. This strategy is employed by numerous successful groups in the RKBA community. If you look to ILA for example probably the first thing that a member notices is a short mention in an article of one of the NRA magazines, or possibly their email alerts. Next will be a more detailed article and then an announcement of their intent to push the issue. Then sponsors, bill introduction, more articles & updates and activism alerts. This carries forward until the final outcome.

Opinions and strategy vary, but basic military leadership has an element of keeping the troops informed, and it carries into other aspects of life - office work, advocacy, and many more.

My opinion: People should evaluate a politician as if there is a scale weighing their legislative and other support of RKBA vs. their priorities for RKBA support. Each legislative season the politician needs to either balance or exceed your priorities or not be worthy of reelection, period. The seasons may be different but you should absolutely make it clear that the scale is always tipped in favor of un electing them until or unless they prove worthy of (re)election.

TFred · Dec 31, 2010

Mr. Y said:
Everyone should try not to be underwhelmed. We've basically mortally wounded the Great Satan- the restaurant ban on concealed carry.

I was thinking about this just yesterday... has there been one, even one incident since July 1st that can be attributed to the passing of this bill?

Where is the blood in the streets?

TFred

Thundar · Dec 31, 2010

This is OCDO not a VCDL Blog. Comparing VCDL to other liberty minded groups isn't bad

My intent was certainly not to bash VCDL. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is better off with them than it would nbe without them.

My intent with this thread was to compare different political movements to see which ones were actually most beneficial to open carry and the RKBA in the Commonwealth.

If some are upset by the P4P or the C2I2 acronyms, then please go to different threads on the boards or fight hard for constitutional carry! These acronyms have been used for a long time on the board, and they have a definite meaning and connotation in the Virginia sub-forum.

My wish list for the legislative session:

Constitutional Carry

This ends the squabbling over open vs. concealed carry and resores concealed carry from a priveledge to a right in the eyes of the court.

Virginia Firearms Freedom Act

(Tied to the necessity of a Virginia Militia free from Federal oversite) Firearms Freedom Acts are being struck down on federal supremacy grounds. The US constitution calls for states to have an independent militia. Making the Firearms Freedom Act a necessary part of the State Militia would be much harder for Eric Holder to stop.

Repeal of the Virginia Criminal History Record Information (CHRI) Check

The Virginia system is broken, costs Virginia taxpayers money and the VSP routinely exceed their general assembley granted authority in implementing CHRI Checks.

Tess · Dec 31, 2010

Thundar said:
<snip>

My wish list for the legislative session:

Constitutional Carry

This ends the squabbling over open vs. concealed carry and resores concealed carry from a priveledge to a right in the eyes of the court.

Virginia Firearms Freedom Act

(Tied to the necessity of a Virginia Militia free from Federal oversite) Firearms Freedom Acts are being struck down on federal supremacy grounds. The US constitution calls for states to have an independent militia. Making the Firearms Freedom Act a necessary part of the State Militia would be much harder for Eric Holder to stop.

Repeal of the Virginia Criminal History Record Information (CHRI) Check

The Virginia system is broken, costs Virginia taxpayers money and the VSP routinely exceed their general assembley granted authority in implementing CHRI Checks.

Do you have patrons identified for these actions?

Repeater · Jan 2, 2011

Will Virginia's Attorney General help or hurt this Session?

Tess said:
Do you have patrons identified for these actions?

Will Ken Cuccinelli make the case for Virginia gun owners?

Cuccinelli makes his case

Cuccinelli insists that his pursuit does not make him an activist attorney general.

"I don't see how one can be an activist playing defense," he says. "Activists play offense. They go create new causes of action.

"But I am hair-trigger-ready to defend the laws of Virginia, the Constitution of Virginia, the Constitution of the United States."

"I think a lot of the liberal media is used to being able to scream otherwise-conservative people down — they just cower. I don't do that. That just makes them all the madder."

Well okay then, how about defending the rights of Virginia gun owners?

skidmark · Jan 2, 2011

Repeater said:
Will Ken Cuccinelli make the case for Virginia gun owners?

Cuccinelli makes his case

Well okay then, how about defending the rights of Virginia gun owners?

Seriously, do you have a case/issue that needs his defending the rights of Virginians? Who is violating those rights, and how are they doing it?

I'm not talking about laws that you want changed, or procedures that you'd like to see done differently. I'm talking about outright violations of rights by some government entity that cannot be addressed through the courts by the individual/group effected and needs the state's own lawyer to represent us collectively. (as, for instance, the Obamacare matter Virginia is persuing as oppopsed to the other Obamacare matter the other states are collectively persuing)

I'm just curious, in case I missed something.

stay safe.

Thundar · Jan 12, 2011

My 1st crack at a scorecard

Here is my scorecard so far:

House of Delegates .... RKBA - 1 , P4P - 3, Neutral - 2, Gun Grabbers - 2

Senate ..................... RKBA - 2 , P4P - 0, Neutral - 3, Gun Grabbers - 0

Here is how I scored them. I included links so you could form your own opinions:

House of Delegates:

HB995 Officer Mil ID or CHPincluded as accepted identification to purchase Assault Firearms P4P http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB995
HB1411 Increase inhunting permit sanction for reckless handling of a firearm Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1411
HB1422 Add one firearm to homestead exemption Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1422
HB1552 Clerk to mail defacto CHP within 5 days P4P http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1552
HB1600 Localities can make gun posession illegal in Libraries Gun Grabber http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1600
HB1669 CHRI for private sales at gun shows Gun Grabber http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1669
HB1731 Virginia Firearms Freedom Act RKBA Enhancement http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1731
HB1732 Recognize all out of state concealed handgun permits P4P http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1732

Senate:

SB755 Residential treatment a disqualifier for CHPs Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB755
SB757 BB gun exemption RKBA Enhancement http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB757
SB 754 Preliminary protective order must include fining of abuse Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB0754
SB758 Preliminary protective order must include fining of abuse Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB0758
SB850 Hunt on Sundays RKBA Enhancement http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB850

peter nap · Jan 12, 2011

Thundar said:
Here is my scorecard so far:

House of Delegates .... RKBA - 1 , P4P - 3, Neutral - 2, Gun Grabbers - 2

Senate ..................... RKBA - 2 , P4P - 0, Neutral - 3, Gun Grabbers - 0

Here is how I scored them. I included links so you could form your own opinions:

House of Delegates:

HB995 Officer Mil ID or CHPincluded as accepted identification to purchase Assault Firearms P4P http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB995
HB1411 Increase inhunting permit sanction for reckless handling of a firearm Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1411
HB1422 Add one firearm to homestead exemption Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1422
HB1552 Clerk to mail defacto CHP within 5 days P4P http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1552
HB1600 Localities can make gun posession illegal in Libraries Gun Grabber http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1600
HB1669 CHRI for private sales at gun shows Gun Grabber http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1669
HB1731 Virginia Firearms Freedom Act RKBA Enhancement http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1731
HB1732 Recognize all out of state concealed handgun permits P4P http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+HB1732

Senate:

SB755 Residential treatment a disqualifier for CHPs Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB755
SB757 BB gun exemption RKBA Enhancement http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB757
SB 754 Preliminary protective order must include fining of abuse Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB0754
SB758 Preliminary protective order must include fining of abuse Neutral http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB0758
SB850 Hunt on Sundays RKBA Enhancement http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+sum+SB850

Looks about right so far. I'm working on derailing a couple of hunting bills also and rooting for a couple of banking bills.
There is at least one Agriculture bill and this is a short session.

DontTreadOnMeVa · Jan 12, 2011

Parking lot bill....

I am very disturbed that there might not be a parking lot bill put forth this year! Did I miss something??

Mr. Y · Jan 12, 2011

Your scorecard looks pretty accurate.

Not much in the way of "freedom" in the Virginia firearms freedom act:

This section shall not apply to:

1. A firearm that cannot be carried and used by one person;

2. A firearm that has a bore diameter greater than one and one-half inches and that used smokeless powder, and not black powder, as a propellant;

3. Ammunition with a projectile that explodes using an explosion of chemical energy after the projectile leaves the firearm; or

4. A firearm that discharges two or more projectiles with open activation of the trigger or other firing device.

longwatch · Jan 13, 2011

Mr. Y said:
Not much in the way of "freedom" in the Virginia firearms freedom act:

This section shall not apply to:

1. A firearm that cannot be carried and used by one person;

2. A firearm that has a bore diameter greater than one and one-half inches and that used smokeless powder, and not black powder, as a propellant;

3. Ammunition with a projectile that explodes using an explosion of chemical energy after the projectile leaves the firearm; or

4. A firearm that discharges two or more projectiles with open activation of the trigger or other firing device.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that give Virginians our own class of very large bore rifles? Something like a Solothurn or Lahti rifle if you can carry it?

peter nap · Jan 13, 2011

longwatch said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that give Virginians our own class of very large bore rifles? Something like a Solothurn or Lahti rifle if you can carry it?

It would which is a major benefit for some of us that make and shoot ultra large bore rifles.

For instance, I would no longer have to add a rim in 12ga configuration to my 730.DDR.
I've been itching to build something based on 20mm cases.:dude:

Mr. Y · Jan 13, 2011

peter nap said:
It would which is a major benefit for some of us that make and shoot ultra large bore rifles.

For instance, I would no longer have to add a rim in 12ga configuration to my 730.DDR.
I've been itching to build something based on 20mm cases.:dude:

I think you could go up to 38mm and at that point "man portable" becomes difficult. I think a 40 Bofors barrel from the l60 weighs ~300 pounds.

I suppose that as an incremental step it's not moving backwards but the avoidance of tangling with NFA is troubling. As if they know it's a loser and it's not (necessarily).

wylde007 · Jan 13, 2011

longwatch said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that give Virginians our own class of very large bore rifles? Something like a Solothurn or Lahti rifle if you can carry it?

We would be getting into Blunderbusses and the like (or bigger) and field artillery at that point.

Heck, a mountain howitzer from the 'civil' [sic] war had a bore of about 2"... but you weren't going to go around carrying one on your person.

peter nap · Jan 13, 2011

Mr. Y said:
I think you could go up to 38mm and at that point "man portable" becomes difficult. I think a 40 Bofors barrel from the l60 weighs ~300 pounds.

I suppose that as an incremental step it's not moving backwards but the avoidance of tangling with NFA is troubling. As if they know it's a loser and it's not (necessarily).

Hmmm...The .790DDR has a certain ring to it:uhoh:

Mr. Y · Jan 13, 2011

peter nap said:
Hmmm...The .790DDR has a certain ring to it:uhoh:

Yeah... When you shoot it

A friend of mine had a .458 Socom upper for his AR that made a ringing noise every time you shot it. It was quite entertaining to shoot.

peter nap · Jan 13, 2011

Mr. Y said:
Yeah... When you shoot it

A friend of mine had a .458 Socom upper for his AR that made a ringing noise every time you shot it. It was quite entertaining to shoot.

I'll let you shoot the .730 sometime. Those 1200 gr slugs make a ringing noise seem tame.:lol:

Mr. Y · Jan 13, 2011

peter nap said:
I'll let you shoot the .730 sometime. Those 1200 gr slugs make a ringing noise seem tame.:lol:

I like the sound of this...

I am fond of large boomers

Where is the VCDL 2011 Legislative Agenda? We need to watch for it and rate it.

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