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Thread: It's official...firearm possession and carry is illegal in city of Wayne!

  1. #1
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    It's official...firearm possession and carry is illegal in city of Wayne!

    Because of the furniture store explosion, the mayor has declared a state of emergency in the city of Wayne. Upon a quick search of their city ordinances, they have banned firearm possession or carry during this time!!

    (a) Power to Proclaim Emergency. The Mayor, or in his or her absence, the Mayor Pro-Tempore, is hereby authorized to proclaim a state of emergency in the City whenever he or she is advised by the Deputy Director, Department of Public Safety-Police Division, that a civil disturbance, riot or civil commotion is in progress, and that there is present within the City limits or in immediate proximity thereto, large groups of persons engaged in rioting, looting and the destruction of property, or threatening physical violence in defiance of the ordinances of the City or statutes of the State, and that the presence of such groups of persons is likely to require extraordinary measures to quell, subdue or control the same, including an appeal to the civil authority of the surrounding communities for additional police personnel to meet such conditions. Having received such report from the Deputy Director, the Mayor, or in his or her absence, the Mayor Pro-Tempore, is hereby authorized to proclaim the existence of an emergency.

    (b) Issuance of Emergency Orders. Upon the proclamation of the existence of such emergency, the Mayor is hereby granted emergency powers to declare, issue and decree emergency orders, and may also issue orders incidental to the emergency, placing into effect any of the following restrictions, prohibitions and affirmative commands, as conservator of the peace of the City, and such restrictions shall thereafter be in full force and effect for the duration of the emergency so determined and proclaimed:

    (1) He or she may order that no person, except a duly authorized law enforcement officer, shall possess or have on his or her person or carry any firearms, ammunition, explosives, inflammable materials or liquids, or other dangerous weapons, including, but not limited to, chains, clubs or missiles, within the boundaries of the City.

    http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Michigan/wayne/parttwo-administrationcode/titlefour-legislation/chapter214mayor?f=templates$fn=document-frameset.htm$q=firearms%20$x=server$3.0#LPHit1
    Last edited by scot623; 12-29-2010 at 09:16 PM.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    As far as I see it the ability of a local unit of govt. to restrict firearm possession, even in a declared state of emergency, is nullified by preemption.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    As far as I see it the ability of a local unit of govt. to restrict firearm possession, even in a declared state of emergency, is nullified by preemption.

    Bronson
    Well at least we all know that. Now we get to bring their Mayor and City Council up to speed.

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    Interesting...can't carry a gun into a cemetery in the city of Wayne either. That's rather creative.

    1066.26 WEAPONS.

    No person shall take any firearm or explosive into any cemetery, except that military or other organizations may carry arms therein for the purpose of firing a salute over the grave at the burial of a member of their organization or upon observance of memorial services.

    (Ord. 16. Passed 9-1-64.)

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    I hope they are smart enough not to arrest anybody carrying for violation of this ordinance. This could be a very costly lawsuit waiting to happen.

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    It would be my assumption, these ordinances like many other we come across and fix, are long forgotten by the City. Now if they prove me wrong and actually enforce it...that would be one large, expensive can of worms.

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    The only way a person shouldn't carry in a cemetery is if they are a resident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    The only way a person shouldn't carry in a cemetery is if they are a resident.
    I see what you did there

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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    The only way a person shouldn't carry in a cemetery is if they are a resident.
    Isn't that like "you can take it with you when you go" I plan on taking mine with me! Never know what bad guy I might meet up with DOWN THERE!
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    (1) He or she may order that no person, except a duly authorized law enforcement officer, shall possess or have on his or her person or carry any firearms, ammunition, explosives, inflammable materials or liquids, or other dangerous weapons, including, but not limited to, chains, clubs or missiles, within the boundaries of the City.
    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    I hope they are smart enough not to arrest anybody carrying for violation of this ordinance. This could be a very costly lawsuit waiting to happen.
    The ordinance doesn't outlaw carrying during a declared state of emergency. It grants the mayor the power, after declaring a state of emergency, to order a prohibition on carrying.

    So far as reported, an order has not come from the mayor prohibiting lawful carry. Lawful firearm possession and carry in Wayne has not been made illegal, and you won't be arrested for it, pursuant to any orders so far reported as issued for the state of emergency.

    The ordinance granting the mayor this potential power is illegal by preemption and will be dealt with. But it looks like the mayor has not attempted to exercise the specific power of ordering a prohibition on lawful carry. As long as there's no attempt to exercise it and illegal citations/detentions/arrests resulting from that, there's no potential for a relevant lawsuit against the city.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    The only way a person shouldn't carry in a cemetery is if they are a resident.
    I'll leave my firearms to my heirs... but I want my cell phone, fully charged of course, to go with me into that box because.................

    If the cause of my death is due to the side effects of some medicine I took sometime or other during my life I want to be able to call a lawyer! After all... I might be entitled to monetary recompense!










    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    What if for someone reason it was the state under the state of emergency. Could our firearms legally be seized and or not allowed to carry them anymore? Looking at the fact our pistols are registered they would know where to go to get them. Do we have anything to protect us in case that situation would arise after a horrific tornado, terrorist attack, or even the zombies!?

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    Regular Member ISMOID's Avatar
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    Source: http://www.ammoland.com/2010/06/07/gun-seizures/

    Gun Seizures & Michigan Gun Owner Frequently Asked Questions

    Michigan - -(Ammoland.com)- Q: I have read about the nightmare of gun seizures that occurred in New Orleans directly after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. What guarantees do we have that such an abuse of power cannot take place here in Michigan?

    A: MCL 10.31 (Public Act 302 of 1945), entitled: “Emergency Powers of the Governor,” states in Section 1 that,”During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting, catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the state, or reasonable apprehension of immediate danger of a public emergency of that kind, when public safety is imperiled, either upon application of the mayor of a city, sheriff of a county, or the commissioner of the Michigan state police or upon his or her own volition, the governor may proclaim a state of emergency and designate the area involved.”

    The powers granted in 1945 when the law was enacted are quite broad and do include “…control of the storage, use, and transportation of explosives or inflammable materials or liquids deemed to be dangerous to public safety.”

    However, the law was amended in 2006 (Public Acts 545 & 546) with the full support and cooperation of MCRGO, to include Subsection (3), which states: “(3) Subsection (1) does not authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of lawfully possessed firearms, ammunition, or other weapons.”

    So, the Governor of Michigan does not have the legal authority to seize otherwise lawfully owned guns or ammunition from citizens, even during a properly declared emergency.

    Steve Dulan (www.StevenWDulan.com) is a member of the Board of Directors of the MCRGO and the MCRGO Foundation, and a member of the Board of Trustees of the MCRGO Foundation. He is an attorney in private practice in East Lansing and Adjunct Professor of firearms law at The Thomas M. Cooley Law School. as well as an NRA Life Member.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkshadow62988 View Post
    I see what you did there
    I want to take at least one with me, grave robbers you know.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Interesting...can't carry a gun into a cemetery in the city of Wayne either. That's rather creative.

    1066.26 WEAPONS.

    No person shall take any firearm or explosive into any cemetery, except that military or other organizations may carry arms therein for the purpose of firing a salute over the grave at the burial of a member of their organization or upon observance of memorial services.

    (Ord. 16. Passed 9-1-64.)
    Zombie protection law.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Zombie protection law.
    Damn Zombie lobby and special interest group. ZOMBIE= Zombies of Michigan Believe in Equality.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  17. #17
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Royal Oak, Clawson, and Troy have similar provisions. Royal Oak and Clawson have been notified and are in process of changing them. Troy, I have not yet contacted.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Because of the furniture store explosion, the mayor has declared a state of emergency in the city of Wayne. Upon a quick search of their city ordinances, they have banned firearm possession or carry during this time!!

    (a) Power to Proclaim Emergency. The Mayor, or in his or her absence, the Mayor Pro-Tempore, is hereby authorized to proclaim a state of emergency in the City whenever he or she is advised by the Deputy Director, Department of Public Safety-Police Division, that a civil disturbance, riot or civil commotion is in progress, and that there is present within the City limits or in immediate proximity thereto, large groups of persons engaged in rioting, looting and the destruction of property, or threatening physical violence in defiance of the ordinances of the City or statutes of the State, and that the presence of such groups of persons is likely to require extraordinary measures to quell, subdue or control the same, including an appeal to the civil authority of the surrounding communities for additional police personnel to meet such conditions. Having received such report from the Deputy Director, the Mayor, or in his or her absence, the Mayor Pro-Tempore, is hereby authorized to proclaim the existence of an emergency.

    (b) Issuance of Emergency Orders. Upon the proclamation of the existence of such emergency, the Mayor is hereby granted emergency powers to declare, issue and decree emergency orders, and may also issue orders incidental to the emergency, placing into effect any of the following restrictions, prohibitions and affirmative commands, as conservator of the peace of the City, and such restrictions shall thereafter be in full force and effect for the duration of the emergency so determined and proclaimed:

    (1) He or she may order that no person, except a duly authorized law enforcement officer, shall possess or have on his or her person or carry any firearms, ammunition, explosives, inflammable materials or liquids, or other dangerous weapons, including, but not limited to, chains, clubs or missiles, within the boundaries of the City.

    http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Michigan/wayne/parttwo-administrationcode/titlefour-legislation/chapter214mayor?f=templates$fn=document-frameset.htm$q=firearms%20$x=server$3.0#LPHit1
    I was under the assumption that MI had state preemption. If so, the mayor cannot lawfully do this.

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    While the ordinance should be contested in court, ordinances are civil statues—not criminal statues. What this means is that with an ordinance violation, you will be subjected to a fine—and no criminal record. That said, some fines can be as high as $10,000 for some ordinance violations.

    I believe this ordinance should be challenged... no declaration of absolute or qualified martial law had been declared to my understanding.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    I forgot all about ZOMBIES!
    Now what do I do! I been playing COD on xbox to get practice but they move too fast for a semi automatic handgun, I may need a Ray gun!
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    Im not a lawyer, but I did play a Klingon once at Universal Studios

  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFPVet View Post
    While the ordinance should be contested in court, ordinances are civil statues—not criminal statues. What this means is that with an ordinance violation, you will be subjected to a fine—and no criminal record. That said, some fines can be as high as $10,000 for some ordinance violations.

    I believe this ordinance should be challenged... no declaration of absolute or qualified martial law had been declared to my understanding.
    Maybe in Indiana, In Michigan ordinances can be misdemeanors and are part of your criminal record.
    Last edited by Venator; 12-30-2010 at 07:37 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I was under the assumption that MI had state preemption. If so, the mayor cannot lawfully do this.
    Correct, Even the Governor can't do it during a state emergency via a State law.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I'll leave my firearms to my heirs... but I want my cell phone, fully charged of course, to go with me into that box because.................

    If the cause of my death is due to the side effects of some medicine I took sometime or other during my life I want to be able to call a lawyer! After all... I might be entitled to monetary recompense!







    Just call Sam !!!!!
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

  24. #24
    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear1098 View Post
    Just call Sam !!!!!
    Best hurry up, I think his kids are taking over his empire!
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
    American Tactical Imports C45 45 AP
    S&W sigma 40 Cal
    Bersa 380 Thunder Plus
    Hi point C9 9mm
    Chiappa 1911-22 Semi-Auto .22 LR

    Im not a lawyer, but I did play a Klingon once at Universal Studios

  25. #25
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    a) everybody that said premption is correct
    b) how would you know this emergency provision was in place if you were driving thru nowhere near the emergency? the culpable mental state of knowingly or intentionally could not be used
    c) why disarm citizens in a state of emergency? what better time to BE armed?
    d) LOVE ZOMBIE MOVIES!!!!!!
    excellent zombie movies -
    Shaun of the Dead
    Dawn of the Dead (both)
    Zombieland
    Return of the Living Dead
    Night of the Living dead (original and 1990 remake - not the 3D garbage that came out a few years ago)
    28 Days Later and 28 Weeks Later (some argue not a zombie movie because they weren't dead - just infected)
    Evil Dead 2
    Shaun of the Dead



    .......................----Moderator Note--Please Heed----
    Please stay OT - The Social Lounge is the appropriate place for discourse on movies and such.

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