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Thread: Posting of signs - Could you be prosecuted for sticking a sign to the door?

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Posting of signs - Could you be prosecuted for sticking a sign to the door?

    Could you be prosecuted for sticking a sign to the door of a business if it does no damage to the door?
    Has anyone posted a "defense free criminal zone" sign on the door of a business that doesn't allow firearms?
    It might be fun to do, but I wonder about the ramifications of such an action. Of course Ed's postcards are much nicer, but is this a possible alternative to sending a postcard?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member CHILINVLN's Avatar
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    If someone applied a sticker at random to my door/window at a business, I would be more pissed off than anything, and would not even give a sh*t about their cause. I would view it as solicitation.

    I don't think that's a good strategy at all.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Could you be prosecuted for sticking a sign to the door of a business if it does no damage to the door?
    Has anyone posted a "defense free criminal zone" sign on the door of a business that doesn't allow firearms?
    It might be fun to do, but I wonder about the ramifications of such an action. Of course Ed's postcards are much nicer, but is this a possible alternative to sending a postcard?
    I don't know the answer to your question, but your wording is a little "clunky."

    I'd say something more along the lines of "Unarmed Victim Zone"... or maybe "Guaranteed Victims Inside"... Or you could be more direct... "We have no guns... Come on in and ROB US!!"



    TFred

    ETA: But of course, CHILIN is right... you aren't going to win any friends doing this...
    Last edited by TFred; 12-29-2010 at 10:20 PM.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I've actually made a sign in MSWord but can't post it here because I'm computer-stupid and can't upload it. It has a ghostbusters symbol in the corner with the words "No Weapons Allowed" in large red letters followed by "ATTENTION CRIMINALS This is a defense free crime zone All law-abiding patrons of this establishment have been disarmed for your convenience".

    It is in landscape format on a plain sheet of printer paper. I thought about putting pieces of double-stick scotch tape in each corner and stealthily leaning against the glass door of a place that doesn't allow firearms.

    No damage to a glass door and it is easily removable.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  5. #5
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Posting signs on private property can lead to a whole litany of charges...

    Trespassing.
    Vandalism.
    Malicious destruction of property.
    Communicating Threats.
    Hate Crime.
    Violation of "post no bills" codes.
    Violation of anti-graffiti codes.


    It ultimately depends on how creative the local DA is, how much of an a-hole the property owner wants to be, and whether they actually can prove that YOU did it. And it doesn't matter if the property is physically damaged or not. The "violation" is a "private property crime" and all the offended party has to do to show "injury" is that you did something to his property that left it in a condition other than would normally be expected by routine interaction with the public.

    All that said, "flyposting" is an age-old practice, and has been used for centuries to influence public sentiment, educate people, and fight against tyranny.

    Just don't get caught, don't take pictures or video of yourself, and don't tell anyone you're going to do it beforehand...

    At least that's what I've heard. I can neither confirm or deny that I have ANY firsthand knowledge of the tactics, techniques, or operations of flyposting, or other forms of clandestine posting of bills, flyers, or posters...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-29-2010 at 10:37 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    Bad Bad bad idea. Would set us back at best. Make whoever put it there a criminal AND make us look very bad at the worst.
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    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    Bad Bad bad idea. Would set us back at best. Make whoever put it there a criminal AND make us look very bad at the worst.
    Doesn't set "us" back if no one knows who posted it and how would "they" know who "us" is anyway?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member Kevin108's Avatar
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    Sneaking around in private businesses sticking up tongue-in-cheek stuff you printed out doesn't help us at all. You shouldn't do anything to try to further our cause that you can't do openly and proudly.
    Last edited by Kevin108; 12-29-2010 at 11:18 PM.

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    You could try wearing a t-shirt that says the same thing to that establishment, just don't buy anything.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Its a matter of respect, and despite their contrary views and policies, I wouldn't tack anything to anyone's door or place of business.

    They can make their policies, and they can lose out on the money. With the economy as it is, 2A friendly places will appreciate the extra revenue.

    You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Sounds rather high-schoolish....if I was a property owner and caught someone sticking something to my door, we'd have a conversation.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Remember... they already think we're evil!

    TFred

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=MSC 45ACP;1431080]Could you be prosecuted for sticking a sign to the door of a business if it does no damage to the door?


    That's littering, its just like seeing the walmart stickers on the floor on the ground. Come to think of it, my walmart does not have those stickers.
    If you saw a no smoking sign, and stuck a cig or cig package to it, it would be littering.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 12-30-2010 at 01:46 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    I seem to recall charges

    A legal term of "Criminal Mischief" comes to mind. A rather nebulous "catch-all" that would apply rather well to such an endeavor. Bad form in general, and much worse for the movement when you get caught by the ubiquitous survelance cameras. But it does sound like fun.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Thinking about this a little more... you could get at least a portion of your desired effect by just making up the nice sign and mailing it to the business owner with a letter saying something like, "why beat around the bush, just let them know the facts, here's your sign..."

    Ha ha, well, you wouldn't really want to say "here's your sign" because of the connection to Bill Engvall, but... for what it's worth... that does make your point.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    I've actually made a sign in MSWord but can't post it here because I'm computer-stupid and can't upload it.
    I'd like to see what you put together, it's not that hard, follow the directions in the FAQ for attachments:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fa...b3_attachments

    TFred

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Here's your sign....

    Even better than taping it to someone's door. Be nice and upfront about it as suggested... I'll just give it to them!

    I may even see if there are any frames at the $1 store and put it in one of those. Heheheheh... More than one way to skin that critter!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    *SNIP*

    At least that's what I've heard. I can neither confirm or deny that I have ANY firsthand knowledge of the tactics, techniques, or operations of flyposting, or other forms of clandestine posting of bills, flyers, or posters...
    LOL Dreamer, good job

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Yes

    Yes.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat10k View Post
    Yes.
    agree. That's considered "destruction of private property", a class one misdemeanor (12 mo's. in jail + $2500 fine and costs). "Vandalism" in the vernacular. The key factor is that it is not a matter of whether the "damage" could be removed without injury to the underlying structure - the fact that some "repair" is required is the proof that the sticker is "damage". And there is no minimum or floor level of "destruction" that is allowed under the statute.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    agree. That's considered "destruction of private property", a class one misdemeanor (12 mo's. in jail + $2500 fine and costs). "Vandalism" in the vernacular. The key factor is that it is not a matter of whether the "damage" could be removed without injury to the underlying structure - the fact that some "repair" is required is the proof that the sticker is "damage". And there is no minimum or floor level of "destruction" that is allowed under the statute.
    +1

    Defacing another's property, even if temporary, is not good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Even better than taping it to someone's door. Be nice and upfront about it as suggested... I'll just give it to them!

    I may even see if there are any frames at the $1 store and put it in one of those. Heheheheh... More than one way to skin that critter!
    If I may make a suggestion.

    Perhaps the back of the sign can be used to provide a more in depth explanation and documentation of why gun free zones do not work as well as why similar signs should never be posted.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UglyGun View Post
    If I may make a suggestion.

    Perhaps the back of the sign can be used to provide a more in depth explanation and documentation of why gun free zones do not work as well as why similar signs should never be posted.
    That is a completely intelligent, lucid and rational idea.

    It will never fly, as long as Saturday Night Live continues to provide us with comedy fodder.
    James Reynolds

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  24. #24
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UglyGun View Post
    If I may make a suggestion.

    Perhaps the back of the sign can be used to provide a more in depth explanation and documentation of why gun free zones do not work as well as why similar signs should never be posted.
    Great idea, Folks. I can present them as "gifts" to businesses like Buffalo Wild Wings and other "Anti" establishments in the area. Amplifying info on the back would be a good idea. I was thinking about some famous quotes and some ACCURATE statistics. Any suggestions?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    I've actually made a sign in MSWord but can't post it here because I'm computer-stupid and can't upload it. It has a ghostbusters symbol in the corner with the words "No Weapons Allowed" in large red letters followed by "ATTENTION CRIMINALS This is a defense free crime zone All law-abiding patrons of this establishment have been disarmed for your convenience".

    It is in landscape format on a plain sheet of printer paper. I thought about putting pieces of double-stick scotch tape in each corner and stealthily leaning against the glass door of a place that doesn't allow firearms.

    No damage to a glass door and it is easily removable.
    I've seen something along those lines posted before. Of course I had to right click save.

    EDC=XDm40 16+1+16+16

    RED DRAGONS!!!!

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