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Thread: US to step up security at hotels and malls

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    US to step up security at hotels and malls

    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    I don't mind a little extra security as long as we dont sacrifice freedom to do it. Trouble is, the two don't mix well, and the authority can't be trusted with it. Even if todays authority could be trusted with it, tomorrows authority cannot.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Those who would give up Essential Liberty
    to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
    deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


    Ben Franklin.
    I don't mind extra security but like stainless said, I am not willing to give up freedom for it. And fear is the surest way to capitalize on trajic events. Knee jerk reactions to make everyone safer rarely makes anyone safer. IMO
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I don't mind a little extra security as long as we dont sacrifice freedom to do it. Trouble is, the two don't mix well, and the authority can't be trusted with it. Even if todays authority could be trusted with it, tomorrows authority cannot.
    I am beginning to think that maybe the two are opposites, especially after reading many of the posts on this and other forums. The articles talk about the addition of 100's of cameras but I think there was a thread on here talking about that same thing a day or two ago. We want to keep all illegals out of the country but get upset when we are stopped at the border and made to prove that we are US citizens. I don't know of any way to step up security without stepping on someones rights. Some may say there is a fine line between the two but I see a big line and the only question is how far to cross it.

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    What they are missing is the golden opportunity to use us as law abiding armed citizens as part of the solution, instead of the problem, or looking at us as subjects, or suspects.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    I am beginning to think that maybe the two are opposites, especially after reading many of the posts on this and other forums. The articles talk about the addition of 100's of cameras but I think there was a thread on here talking about that same thing a day or two ago. We want to keep all illegals out of the country but get upset when we are stopped at the border and made to prove that we are US citizens. I don't know of any way to step up security without stepping on someones rights. Some may say there is a fine line between the two but I see a big line and the only question is how far to cross it.
    The US doesn't really want to stop illegal immigration. Follow the money. If the US really wanted to slow the flow, they could do it in 6 months.

    1) Start executing a few illegals.
    2) Start jailing the employers that hire them.
    30 Repeat as necessary.

    The fact is illegals provide a cheap labor force (relating to cheap food costs.) and a political benefit.
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    +1

    No point in putting a man with a gun on a fence if he can't shoot those who cross it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    +1

    No point in putting a man with a gun on a fence if he can't shoot those who cross it.

    I say, either ENFORCE THE LAW we currently have ALL THE TIME, 100% of the TIME

    OR

    Repeal the law you won't enforce!

    Either way there will be political fallout but CHOOSING TO NOT MAKE A DECISION


    IS MAKING A DECISION! And it too, has political fallout!

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I'm not real good with electronics, other than cars and some home appliances, so I encourage anyone who knows better to tell me I'm talking out of my ass.

    I saw a TV program the other day where they showed how many modern security cameras, such as those used in Casinos can actually read someones retina from 200 feet, and ID them. I suspect that many of the new cameras will be designed to do just that, which if true is something I have a real problem with. That is some real Orwellian **** which we the people must not stand for if we wish to remain free. It's bad enough that cell phones can already be used to easily track people. The government cannot and must not be allowed to know where we're all at, because they should fear us, and we the law abiding shouldn't ever fear them, nor should we ever fear a fake threat they generate to keep us afraid, and garbage like these cameras amount to little more than a form of government exerted control.
    Last edited by Michigander; 01-01-2011 at 10:24 PM.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I'm not real good with electronics, other than cars and some home appliances, so I encourage anyone who knows better to tell me I'm talking out of my ass.

    I saw a TV program the other day where they showed how many modern security cameras, such as those used in Casinos can actually read someones retina from 200 feet, and ID them. I suspect that many of the new cameras will be designed to do just that, which if true is something I have a real problem with. That is some real Orwellian **** which we the people must not stand for if we wish to remain free. It's bad enough that cell phones can already be used to easily track people. The government cannot and must not be allowed to know where we're all at, because they should fear us, and we the law abiding shouldn't ever fear them, nor should we ever fear a fake threat they generate to keep us afraid, and garbage like these cameras amount to little more than a form of government exerted control.
    The problem is more a question of accuracy than ability. Facial recognition, which I presume would be more "accurate" has a variable positive rate based on facial traits which match known subjects. From what I understand, the use of this software is problematic because (A.) the false positive rate is so high that almost everyone is tagged as matching a known felon, subject, etc. or (B.), the software matches no one. Here is a knowledgeable perspective: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...ognitio_1.html

    There are always weaknesses in every system, and the people who wish to thwart the system will always be able to. The reliance on this sort of technology even has an appropriate name: Security Theater (Schneier).
    Don't think the new measures at airports can be thwarted, think again:
    see this link: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...ckscatter.html
    http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20101116-31209.html

    What a waste...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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