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Thread: Open Carry at Church

  1. #1
    Regular Member Lokster's Avatar
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    Open Carry at Church

    I've been scouring these forums for the past few weeks trying to soak up as much as possible about OC and the logistics thereof so that I may become more informed and able to draw my own conclusions about a variety of topics having to do with it.

    Since I don't recall reading much about OC at church in past threads and because the Colorado sub-forum seems to be somewhat stale I figured I would raise the topic for discussion.

    I'm curious to hear others reasoning as to why OC at church would or would not be appropriate. How important is it to you that your minister or pastor or what have you respect your decision to OC? Also, feel free to share any stories you might have regarding this topic.

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    I have a friend who works at Woodman Calvary Chapel and the church has a their own security force, was told by him the church would prob. ask you to leave. Same prob. applies to New Life. I would CC in church but that's just me. Also be careful of the churches that use schools to do their services such as The Gathering, because it's still a school and you could still be charged even if kids aren't there I'm sure. These are just my own personal opinion though.

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    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
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    If I went to church, I would OC, if I were so inclined. I'd also respect the equivalent of management's decision to deny me, just like any business and private property.

  4. #4
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    Good question. I carry concealed in my church in Nevada. Open carry everywhere else. I did ask the pastor and he said no problem with the concealed firearm appeared to be in favor of it, did not ask about open carry. However, the pastor is a retired law enforcement officer and in favor of gun rights. I did see an open carry firearm at a funeral we had for a motorcyclist. I did not care and apparently, no one else cared.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I've CC'd in church, but have not yet OC'd in church. I think each church should sit down and figure out what's right for them. I'd prefer the same hands-off approach I think most of us would prefer from most (all?) of the establishments we frequent. If it's no-carry, however, then for me that would be a no-go / go-elsewhere item, particularly if they attempted to say, "well, a select few of our deacons carry for your protection so you don't have to."

    One of the dangers I see here is the concept of the church "flock," as in needed a shephard. I believe that to be absolutely true in spiritual terms, but Jesus himself often repeated the need to be on the lookout against evil, and sometimes, that manifests itself in quite real, concrete terms, as it did at New Life. I know one of the deacons there, and that they took security quite seriously beforehand (which is why the perp didn't get far), as well as the fact they take security much more seriously now.

    Question is: Would that preclude me from OC'ing at New Life?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  6. #6
    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Talk to your Pastor, Pray about it and see what the Lord tells you.

  7. #7
    Regular Member entartet17's Avatar
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    I know lots of people who CC at the church I attend. I CC when I'm there but I have never OC'd. I don't think there would be an issue with OCing, I just choose not to do it.

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    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    The following is my opinion only. You are free to agree or disagree.

    The purpose of church is not to be an open or public forum. It is to take time and reflect upon/worship God or whatever other deity you believe in. I would not appreciate anyone doing anything in the church that distracts or detracts from that activity. I don't appreciate anyone wearing ostentatious/flashy/revealing clothing or engaging in inappropriate freedom of speech such as discussing items of a too personal nature or politicking. There are of course the even more obvious ones such as being disruptive or confrontational.

    With that in mind, I choose not to OC at church. Is it a right that I have? Certainly. Is it wrong or un-Christian to be armed? Certainly not. The reason I do not OC even though others doing so wouldn't distract me from worship is because it might distract others the same way that their dress or inappropriate speech might distract me. It is the same reason I do not show up to church blaring loud music, use loud or profane speech, or endorse political candidates there. It is simply not an appropriate forum/place to do so.

    As for concealed carry, I see it as no different than the person who keeps any of the other above named inappropriate activities for church to themselves. Concealed means concealed.

  9. #9
    Regular Member entartet17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBratt View Post
    The reason I do not OC even though others doing so wouldn't distract me from worship is because it might distract others the same way that their dress or inappropriate speech might distract me.
    That's the same reason I don't OC. Even though having people OC wouldn't bother me in the slightest, it may distract others. I still carry a weapon, just not not openly.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The only circumstance that I believe would call for OC in church would be the existence of an active threat, in which case the "greeters"-acting in a security capacity - passing out programs at the entrance probably should be OC'ing as a deterent. Otherwise CC is appropriate in church.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokster View Post
    I'm curious to hear others reasoning as to why OC at church would or would not be appropriate. How important is it to you that your minister or pastor or what have you respect your decision to OC?
    As many church shootings as there've been I wouldn't call a church a safer space than a late night gas station in terms of not carrying at least CC. With the pastor being head of the congregation, I'd say you need to weigh your desire to OC against your desire to associate with that church. If it's going to be a big deal, is it a place you can pray and worship comfortably? I'd feel the same way if it was anything else about me that made others uncomfortable. Whether it's a gay family member, an eccentric kid, or my haircut.

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    22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

    22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

    22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

    Not only do I think He understands the need to be armed, I think He understands the need for a backup weapon.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Thanks, all - you've confirmed my statements and personal choices.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Lokster's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback everyone. It's obvious that being within the four walls of a church doesn't negate the necessity and responsibility to protect yourself or others should a legitimate threat present itself. I have opted to CC while at church; at least for now.

    I appreciate your insight, rushcreek2

    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    The only circumstance that I believe would call for OC in church would be the existence of an active threat, in which case the "greeters"-acting in a security capacity - passing out programs at the entrance probably should be OC'ing as a deterent. Otherwise CC is appropriate in church.

  15. #15
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    CC in Church

    [QUOTE=eBratt;1432747]The following is my opinion only. You are free to agree or disagree.

    The purpose of church is not to be an open or public forum. It is to take time and reflect upon/worship God or whatever other deity you believe in. I would not appreciate anyone doing anything in the church that distracts or detracts from that activity. I don't appreciate anyone wearing ostentatious/flashy/revealing clothing or engaging in inappropriate freedom of speech such as discussing items of a too personal nature or politicking. There are of course the even more obvious ones such as being disruptive or confrontational.

    With that in mind, I choose not to OC at church. Is it a right that I have? Certainly. Is it wrong or un-Christian to be armed? Certainly not. The reason I do not OC even though others doing so wouldn't distract me from worship is because it might distract others the same way that their dress or inappropriate speech might distract me. It is the same reason I do not show up to church blaring loud music, use loud or profane speech, or endorse political candidates there. It is simply not an appropriate forum/place to do so.

    I totally agree if you are a regular attender at the church You should be discreet enough to CC and not do something that could be Disruptive to others. Newer ones may but we need to be examples. Thanks

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    Church is one of the very few places I don't carry openly. (I only carry openly) I do it out of respect for that type of gathering. I also don't carry at a movie theater because of all of the children running around. Other than that it is open carry everywhere. Oh, and grandchildren's school plays.
    Last edited by jhco50; 04-27-2011 at 01:48 AM.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhco50 View Post
    I also don't carry at a movie theater because of all of the children running around.
    What kind of holster do you use that you would be concerned with children running around? Or is it that you are concerned with scaring the children?

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhco50 View Post
    I also don't carry at a movie theater because of all of the children running around.
    Last time I went to the theatre I was open carrying and all I got for response was a "nice shirt" comment.
    On the back it said "Guns don't kill people. Dads with pretty daughters do."

    Strangely the boys left her alone too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    What kind of holster do you use that you would be concerned with children running around? Or is it that you are concerned with scaring the children?
    I use a Hunter M1100, but it mostly because of the kids running around. Also, the theater we go to has seats so narrow they catch on my holster. Must be kid seats for sure.

  20. #20
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    OC is the only legal way in WI for now.
    The only church I've ever been to OCing called police (after I'd been there through the whole service, and not on the emergency line) & I was arrested (the whole out-of-your-car-at-gunpoint, hancuffed, groped, transported, photographed, fingerprinted, experience).
    Audio of the phone call available here.
    Needless to say, I was not being the least bit threatening (which they told the calltaker, & police).
    Turned out that the city agreed to pay me several thousand dollars.

    If I ever return to a church, I will conceal unless I know that other people there OC.
    Hopefully concealing will be legal in WI by then.
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    I don't go to church, but seems like a personal decision and your pastor/leaders decision also. If you respect the church, you should respect their decision. There are sometimes where maybe taking the gun off is appropriate, but that's really a personal thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass View Post
    22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

    22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

    22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

    Not only do I think He understands the need to be armed, I think He understands the need for a backup weapon.

    i have explained this passage and why it does not pertain to self defense so many times, i have grown sick of it. and every single time i explain it, it bounces off the "faithful" like a dried piece of ****.

    people read what they want to read. you feel like church is a good place to carry? interesting that all christ ever asked of his people was to lay down their lives like he did in order to follow him.

    church is the last place you should be carrying.

  23. #23
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    i have explained this passage and why it does not pertain to self defense so many times, i have grown sick of it. and every single time i explain it, it bounces off the "faithful" like a dried piece of ****.

    people read what they want to read. you feel like church is a good place to carry? interesting that all christ ever asked of his people was to lay down their lives like he did in order to follow him.

    church is the last place you should be carrying.
    Wow. I just so don't even know where to start that I guess I'll have to just leave it alone.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    i have explained this passage and why it does not pertain to self defense so many times, i have grown sick of it. and every single time i explain it, it bounces off the "faithful" like a dried piece of ****.
    Perhaps because the "faithful" of which I'm one, and having read the Bible thrice through in it's entirety, and many times through (more than 20) of the new testament, simply don't agree with your "dried piece of ****" derogatory against us as if we were some sort of imbecilic fools as you're purporting us to be.

    Grow a brain.

    Your post indicates you're obviously one of the last people on this forum who might find yourself in church, so since you're so lacking in experience with respect to these matters, and by your own admission, please butt out.

    Thanks.

    It appears as if you're attempting to misuse this OC forum for the purpose of bashing religion, which, if I'm not mistaken, is a gross violation of the rules of this forum.

    Wrong move.

    Church is the last place you should be carrying...
    What? Are you kidding me?

    Who are you? Are you the next one in line to unleash mayhem against the New Life Church here in Colorado Springs? Perhaps another church?

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    Last edited by since9; 05-11-2011 at 06:53 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
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    I CC frequently, but not at church. I know, I know - be prepared at all times, etc. . .but for me, it's a personal choice NOT to carry in a house of worship. For me, it just doesn't feel right. I also respect others' choice to carry if they so desire. Doesn't bother me either way.

    That said, when I'm in church, I usually have my spare mag and an IWB holster so I can rearm immediately after church.

    Like I said, personal choice!

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