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Thread: Ohio man accuses Owsley deputy of assault

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    Ohio man accuses Owsley deputy of assault

    Has anyone heard of this?

    http://www.kentucky.com/2010/12/30/1...ey-deputy.html

    An Owsley County sheriff's deputy assaulted an Ohio man without provocation, breaking his left eye socket and nose, a federal lawsuit alleges.

    State police and the FBI are believed to be investigating the deputy, Michael Havicus, and Booneville Officer Timothy Marshall, who failed to stop the attack, and both might face criminal charges, the lawsuit says.

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    The action seeks unspecified damages from the two officers.


    Read more: http://www.kentucky.com/2010/12/30/1...#ixzz19hFQPaxa

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    What this is doing in an OC forum, I have no idea.


    I'd like to hear the other side of the story. Cops don't punch people for no reason at all, which is what the lawsuit is saying. I wouldn't be surprised if it was excessive force, but it's important to note we don't have the full story.

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    The officer had a perfectly valid reason for beating the crap out of someone.


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    Cool

    You're right. I probably shouldn't have posted this here. Not much going on here in the Kentucky forum lately, so I was trying to add some content.

    The LEO was probably OC'ing though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zrukman View Post
    SNIP Havicus kept yelling for Adkins to stop resisting, but Adkins didn't resist, the lawsuit says.
    I've seen two or three videos where police shouted "stop resisting", yet the arrestee was not visibly resisting.

    I have a feeling police are automatically shouting "stop resisting", regardless of any resistance, in order to give witnesses an impression and cover themselves if any cops get carried away in their use of force.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    What this is doing in an OC forum, I have no idea.


    I'd like to hear the other side of the story. Cops don't punch people for no reason at all, which is what the lawsuit is saying. I wouldn't be surprised if it was excessive force, but it's important to note we don't have the full story.
    WTF? Really, well I'll be damned.
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    Have a problem with my statement Venator? If a cop hits someone for no reason at all, they must be literally insane. People don't hit people out of the blue. I'm not saying he had a good reason or a legitimate reason, I'm saying there must have been some antecedent to the punch and I'm curious as to what that was.

    I have a general dislike and distrust for just about all law enforcement, nevertheless, we don't have the whole story. In the name of fairness, we can't really say what did or should have happened.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    Have a problem with my statement Venator? If a cop hits someone for no reason at all, they must be literally insane. People don't hit people out of the blue. I'm not saying he had a good reason or a legitimate reason, I'm saying there must have been some antecedent to the punch and I'm curious as to what that was.

    I have a general dislike and distrust for just about all law enforcement, nevertheless, we don't have the whole story. In the name of fairness, we can't really say what did or should have happened.
    You may be right they have a reason...brutallity, psychosis, Napoleon complex....
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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Sometimes They Do.

    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    Have a problem with my statement Venator? If a cop hits someone for no reason at all, they must be literally insane. People don't hit people out of the blue. I'm not saying he had a good reason or a legitimate reason, I'm saying there must have been some antecedent to the punch and I'm curious as to what that was.

    I have a general dislike and distrust for just about all law enforcement, nevertheless, we don't have the whole story. In the name of fairness, we can't really say what did or should have happened.
    This reply is on 2 fronts:

    1. Like you, I view and approach LEO's with a weary-neutral POV. I give them the respect they are due but never kiss ass for their sake.

    2. We had a PD that had some bad officer's. Certain officer's were known for their excessive use of force with their Mag Lights and drawing on individuals that had no priors, no warrants and a clean records! Due to the way things USED to work, their were no cases ever brought. It took nearly 10 years to expose them and their misdeeds, ultimately leading to their disgraceful discharge from the force. With that being said, this is all a done deal and over with now. Out current PD seems to be more upstanding and legit than those in the past, thankfully!
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    Cops are human too. We are all prone to irrational, unreasonable responses to situations that call for a lot less sometimes.

    That means looking at someone the wrong way can get you stabbed, spilling water on someone's pantleg can get you mob-lynched, and saying something wrong to a cop can get you beaten and arrested. It's stupid, unreasomable, unfair, unjust, and a lot of other things, but that's the way it is.

    There is more evidence to suggest the cop had no reason to strike than to suggest that he did. Witness testimony is pretty solid in court. But this notion of giving a cop the benefit of the doubt because "cops don't just hit people" is insane. Cops should be held to a HIGHER standard, especially when accused of misconduct. The attitude of giving them a break is how crooked cops get retirement plans instead of jail time.

    Not my place to judge, but if this really is the way it happened, I hope they are extra hard on them in court.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    What this is doing in an OC forum, I have no idea.


    Cops don't punch people for no reason at all, which is what the lawsuit is saying. .
    Agree with why is it here? But to say the above, you must have missed a few dozen reports of where that is exactly what they do. More facts are needed, but to whitewash cops in totality is as inane as saying they are all scum. Most assuredly are not; too many are.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    Cops don't punch people for no reason at all, which is what the lawsuit is saying.
    s

    Ever seen CATO's Avitar in the CA sub-forum?

    We don't know what happened, but this doesn't look good for the thin blue line.

    Expandable batons are a good discussion item. Are they legal for citizens to carry in Ky?
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    I think I've been completely misunderstood here. I am far from saying that this cop is innocent and am not defending him in any way. I will say once again: we do not have all the facts. We cannot make a judgement until the facts are published. The cop is innocent until proven guilty, like anyone else. I also absolutely agree that they should be held to a higher standard.

    I will stand by my words that cops don't just hit people for no reason. That logic applies to any sane human being. As a special education teacher, I realize that all behavior happens for a reason. Again, it may not be a good reason. In fact, if I had to put money on it, I would agree with Venator's mention of a napoleon complex.

    I'm not whitewashing anyone here; I'm just trying to be rational, fair, and logical. As the facts lay, we just have one side of the story and nobody in here can speak to the guilt of anyone involved without knowing exactly what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    I think I've been completely misunderstood here. I am far from saying that this cop is innocent and am not defending him in any way. I will say once again: we do not have all the facts. We cannot make a judgement until the facts are published. The cop is innocent until proven guilty, like anyone else. I also absolutely agree that they should be held to a higher standard.

    I will stand by my words that cops don't just hit people for no reason. That logic applies to any sane human being. As a special education teacher, I realize that all behavior happens for a reason. Again, it may not be a good reason. In fact, if I had to put money on it, I would agree with Venator's mention of a napoleon complex.

    I'm not whitewashing anyone here; I'm just trying to be rational, fair, and logical. As the facts lay, we just have one side of the story and nobody in here can speak to the guilt of anyone involved without knowing exactly what happened.
    I think I understand better now. While I think that there are some exceptions to that, I agree that all behavior is a reaction to something, even if it's an unreasonable reaction. And I agree that no sane person would hit anyone for no reason, but there are a lot of crazies out there, and sometimes the craziest thing about them is how much power they have, be it a badge or a political office or anything else.

    In other news...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Expandable batons are a good discussion item. Are they legal for citizens to carry in Ky?
    They are legal to openly carry, as is just about anything that is legal to own. But they are considered a deadly weapon, which means to keep one in your pocket you'll need a CCDW (and a pretty deep pocket-- literally, not monetarily). I regularly OC a baton in areas in which a "firearns prohibitied" sign is displayed (although a "no weapons" sign does apply to batons, most places won't immediately recognize it on your belt as a weapon).

    IANAL, not legal advice, blah blah blah.
    Last edited by Tribunal Power; 01-02-2011 at 06:13 PM.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    s

    Ever seen CATO's Avitar in the CA sub-forum?

    We don't know what happened, but this doesn't look good for the thin blue line.

    Expandable batons are a good discussion item. Are they legal for citizens to carry in Ky?
    For individuals that DO NOT have CCDW, they are ILLEGAL!!!
    Last edited by neuroblades; 01-02-2011 at 10:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    For individuals that DO NOT have CCDW, [expandable batons] are ILLEGAL!!!
    Cite, please.

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    This thread has gotten out of hand! Can we all just get along!
    Capricorn

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Sample View Post
    This thread has gotten out of hand! Can we all just get along!
    Are you kidding me, RK? If it weren't for the constant arguing or debating going on here, this forum would practically dry up on the vine.
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    @Citizen Assuming a baton is considered a billy club or a night stick, it is considered a "deadly weapon" in KY. So if the deadly weapon is to be concealed, a CCDW is going to be needed. KRS 500.080

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    @Citizen Assuming a baton is considered a billy club or a night stick, it is considered a "deadly weapon" in KY. So if the deadly weapon is to be concealed, a CCDW is going to be needed. KRS 500.080
    +1
    Capricorn

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    Regular Member Ivan Sample's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Cite, please.
    +1 for the simple fact is before I got my CCDW permit I used to carry a expandable baton on my person and was never stop and I was working for a Security outfit-remain nameless because they are a piece of **** company to work for. Sorry for going off-lets get back to point. All I had to do was get trained and I was good to go!
    Capricorn

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    @Citizen Assuming a baton is considered a billy club or a night stick, it is considered a "deadly weapon" in KY. So if the deadly weapon is to be concealed, a CCDW is going to be needed. KRS 500.080
    I see. So, possession, carry, etc. of an expandable baton is not limited to CCDW holders as implied in the post from which I requested a cite? Only CC of an expandable baton requires a CCDW?
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-05-2011 at 12:04 AM.

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    Correct, from what I understand, open carry of a baton is fine. CC of a baton requires a license.

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