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Thread: Tallahassee Democrat - Open carry bill "passage is all but assured"

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Tallahassee Democrat - Open carry bill "passage is all but assured"

    http://www.tallahassee.com/article/2...t-another-shot

    Now, 23 years later, the National Rifle Association wants to undo it. And why not, with the stated support of incoming Gov. Rick Scott and huge GOP majorities in both the House and Senate? Florida is one of seven states with a full ban on open-carry. There are slim exceptions — gun owners can carry holstered weapons on their own land or while traveling to and from fishing and hunting.
    State Sen. Greg Evers, a Republican from Baker, has introduced a bill to allow Florida pistol owners to carry their guns openly. The proposal also changes existing law to allow licensed owners to carry concealed guns on college campuses and at private schools.

    . . .

    OpenCarry.org is a national advocacy group. Its members in Florida have an online petition — "It is an old right, not a new threat" — with 2,227 signatories. They hold regular meetups to openly carry guns. The next one is Jan. 8 in seven cities around the state. Online instructions include directions on getting a free fishing license and bringing along rods and reels to meet the exceptions allowing open-carry while on the way to angling.

    Evers' bill is coming and its passage is all but assured. It's right out there in the open, and you know it's loaded.
    Last edited by Mike; 12-31-2010 at 01:15 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    That would get a big thumb's-up from me.

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    Looks like they require log in to read the article.

    Anyway, it sounds like progress is being made in Florida. Thanks for all the work you guys are doing to keep things moving down there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paknon2wheels View Post
    Looks like they require log in to read the article.
    Link is live for me without registration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Link is live for me without registration.
    Not for me.Click image for larger version. 

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    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I picked out two serious problems with it.

    1) Elimination of 4th amendment, License and ID on demand.
    2) No more private transfers, NICS required for all sales.
    Last edited by ixtow; 01-02-2011 at 10:31 PM.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I picked out two serious problems with it.

    1) Elimination of 4th amendment, License and ID on demand.
    2) No more private transfers, NICS required for all sales.
    What are you talking about?

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I picked out two serious problems with it.

    1) Elimination of 4th amendment, License and ID on demand.
    2) No more private transfers, NICS required for all sales.
    1. All or nothing, absolutist hysteria. Sorry, this is real life where things usually must be done one step at a time. Legalize, normalize, and then deregulate.

    2. Absolutely false.

    I'm done feeding the trolls.
    Last edited by StogieC; 01-03-2011 at 12:40 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paknon2wheels View Post
    Looks like they require log in to read the article. .
    Try this link:
    http://www.news-press.com/article/20...24/1002/NEWS01

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    1. All or nothing, absolutist hysteria. Sorry, this is real life where things usually must be done one step at a time. Legalize, normalize, and then deregulate.

    2. Absolutely false.

    I'm done feeding the trolls.
    No trolling about it, I can read... That's what it says.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    2 only applies to out of state transfers at gun dealers. Federal law dictates that for private transfers, both parties be residents of the same state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    That one worked. Thank you.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I resided in central and northern FL from '60 to '64 and again in '68/69. People carried guns. I dunno legally or illegally but it was done. I remember the 'shall issue' permit thing in '87, which surprised me 'cause I never thought there was a problem with it. It was just 'a right'. What happened?

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Just as is happening now, a privilege was created that required trading in Rights.

    SOP for FL.

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    Regular Member James J O'Brien's Avatar
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    Sounds Good to me Thumbs up for me too

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    open carry law

    can you reference where you saw the requirement to show i.d. on demand from law enforcement.thank you!

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobthegunslinger View Post
    can you reference where you saw the requirement to show i.d. on demand from law enforcement.thank you!
    I can answer that one. SB 234 would authorize CWFL holders to carry openly at their option. §790.06 (1) states, "The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer."

    Although the statute specifically says "in possession of a concealed weapon or firearm", it is resonable to believe that this would extend to any firearm carried under the provision.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    I can answer that one. SB 234 would authorize CWFL holders to carry openly at their option. §790.06 (1) states, "The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer."

    Although the statute specifically says "in possession of a concealed weapon or firearm", it is resonable to believe that this would extend to any firearm carried under the provision.
    No, it wouldn't.

    Florida v. J.L.

    Delaware v. Prouse

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
    I don't know Gray. If SB 234 passes as written, open carry would only be authorized to CWFL holders. Why would a LEO be prohibited from asking to see both your CWFL and ID? By open carrying, you are affirming you have a license to do so, and statute allows the LEO to confirm that.

  20. #20
    coolfrmn
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    Two thumbs up for Florida!!! Lots of hard work starting to bare fruit. Hopefully the momentum will travel up to GA, SC.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    I don't know Gray. If SB 234 passes as written, open carry would only be authorized to CWFL holders. Why would a LEO be prohibited from asking to see both your CWFL and ID? By open carrying, you are affirming you have a license to do so, and statute allows the LEO to confirm that.
    You also have to show your driver's license on demand while driving (same requirements for pilot's licenses to show on demand). The legislative assumption is that the LEO's demand is being made lawfully.
    To lawfully stop and ID someone you need probable cause or reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed. Just openly carrying does not create reasonable suspicion that you are committing a crime for a stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    I don't know Gray. If SB 234 passes as written, open carry would only be authorized to CWFL holders. Why would a LEO be prohibited from asking to see both your CWFL and ID? By open carrying, you are affirming you have a license to do so, and statute allows the LEO to confirm that.
    In Regalado v. State, Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 4th Dist. 2009, the court has this to say:

    Despite the obvious potential danger to officers and the public by a person in possession of a concealed gun in a crowd, this is not illegal in Florida unless the person does not have a concealed weapons permit, a fact that an officer cannot glean by mere observation. Based upon our understanding of both Florida and United States Supreme Court precedent, stopping a person solely on the ground that the individual possesses a gun violates the Fourth Amendment.
    So this answers the question of whether a LEO can demand production of a CWFL in the following situations
    1) The open carry of a pistol magazine now, and
    2) The open carry of a firearm (when open carry is 'more legal' than it is today) next year.
    without RAS of some criminal activity taking place. The court had this to say (Paraphrased):

    Possession of a concealed gun is not illegal in Florida unless the person does not have a concealed weapons permit.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    To the letter of the law, yes.

    This is Case Law defined before the passage of OC. Looking forward into the past (???), will it still stand? I personally know of one Assistant State Attorney who will challenge that notion and take it all the way again. He doesn't think anyone should be allowed to have a gun at all. He used to be a Fed, go figure...

    If this goes into effect, I expect OCers to get arrested, and worse, for not showing papers on demand.

    Short of a Brady-esque 'blood in the streets' cry, COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: LEO Bashing
    Last edited by ixtow; 01-04-2011 at 11:38 PM.

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    When?

    So, with Rick Scott being on TV last night I decided to check on his open carry stuff which led me to this website. And I must first say, GREAT SITE HERE!

    My question is when is Scott planning on getting the ball rolling on this? When can we actually expect it to be the new law of the land and not just political bs like all of Obama's campaign promises.

    I am by no means comparing Scott and Obama, I think you get my point tho. I don't want to be on this forum 2 years from now saying, "Scott said he was going to... and now I hate him." Like all the Obama supporters are doing.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 day at a time View Post
    So, with Rick Scott being on TV last night I decided to check on his open carry stuff which led me to this website. And I must first say, GREAT SITE HERE!

    My question is when is Scott planning on getting the ball rolling on this? When can we actually expect it to be the new law of the land and not just political bs like all of Obama's campaign promises.

    I am by no means comparing Scott and Obama, I think you get my point tho. I don't want to be on this forum 2 years from now saying, "Scott said he was going to... and now I hate him." Like all the Obama supporters are doing.
    The ball is rolling about as fast as it can. Senate Bill 234 has been filed and a lot of other behind-the-scenes work is ongoing to reform Florida gun laws.

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