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Thread: decent weather brings out license checkpoint

  1. #1
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    decent weather brings out license checkpoint

    Went downtown Jamestown for some groceries. On my way out, I got caught up in a checkpoint. 5 or 6 guilford county deputies had traffic stopped in both directions. I was carrying concealed (Kimber 45). I presented my dl and carry permit while notifying the deputy that I was carrying. He asked where it was located and I said in a shoulder holster. He smiled and said OK, have a nice day.
    no trouble at all, professional and courteous.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Actually, it's not the nice weather.

    It's because today is New Years Eve...

    What is surprising though, is that there weren't a few Hummers full of Marines participating, and they weren't taking blood samples like they are doing in FL...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    blood samples????

    wtf

  4. #4
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by p85 View Post
    Went downtown Jamestown for some groceries. On my way out, I got caught up in a checkpoint. 5 or 6 guilford county deputies had traffic stopped in both directions. I was carrying concealed (Kimber 45). I presented my dl and carry permit while notifying the deputy that I was carrying. He asked where it was located and I said in a shoulder holster. He smiled and said OK, have a nice day.
    no trouble at all, professional and courteous. (emphasis added by Citizen)

    Roadblock. These things are suspicionless roadblocks.

    No sense going along with the government's spin terminology. If the government has to spin the word in order to avoid upsetting the citizenry, you immediately know they are up to something questionable.

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    while not germaine to my OP, I think they are overboard with drawing blood for routine suspected dui. they (leo) have the option of arresting for refusal to submit to breathalyser. here in nc, it is automatic and will result in loss of DL.

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    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    taking blood samples like they are doing in FL...
    They can do that in NC too. Any EMT - I or Higher certified can draw blood.

    The BAATU Mobile (Batmobile for short) The one that is in the commercials, has an on board breathalyzer and if you refuse the test they can get a court order and the On board RN can draw blood with or without your consent. If an officer suspect your were DUI at the scene or an accident and he has suspession to believe you are DUI and you refuse the breathalyzer then he can have medics on the scene draw blood as evidence. This has been going on for a while now .
    -----------------
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    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

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    I always thought you had the option of either taking the breathalyzer, or giving up your license for a year. Most attorneys say it's easier to defend against a charge if you did take the breathalyzer... Is that just NC?

    Yeah I hate that the courts have ruled that these checkpoints/roadblocks are constitutional.

    A- They completely circumvent the normal requirement of reasonable suspicion

    B- They are ineffectual compared to the officers actually driving around and stopping vehicles that do warrant reasonable suspicion. There is a study on this that I don't care to link to right now.

    Here is an interesting video though. I'm actually surprised this guy doesn't get his window bashed in like I've seen done before:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIupH...eature=related

    I do applaud him for his conviction, but I don't have the nuts for this
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

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    Sc0tt I thought I just saw a whole thread saying you were taking a break? That was short. Welcome back?!
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    So I guess if you do this it will land you in jail. Pretty damn scary.



    EDC=XDm40 16+1+16+16

    RED DRAGONS!!!!

  11. #11
    mattwestm
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    I love how the cop in the first video says the driver is trying to "instigate stuff". I also like how you aren't in custody, but aren't free to go. There should not be an in between allowed.

    The one thing I disagree with is the guy baiting the cop by going to the checkpoint again. A lot of OCers get flack about "baiting" cops and posting videos online.

    I'm on the fence about how to behave at these checkpoints. Usually they ask where you are going/where you are coming from and answering will let you pass. The other side of me wants to behave just like the guy in the video did.

    Quick question: I was having a conversation with my health professor about this last year. She said that if you refuse a breathalyser test at a club, etc. (cops trying to combat underage drinking) that you still lose your license. My argument was that your drivers license has nothing to do with you being in a club. Anybody know the answer to this one? Will you lose your license if you refuse a breath test while not driving?
    Last edited by mattwestm; 12-31-2010 at 07:12 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    That's not me in the video, but he is a member of this forum. Normally hangs out in the NV section using the same screen name.
    EDC=XDm40 16+1+16+16

    RED DRAGONS!!!!

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    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith45acp View Post
    Sc0tt I thought I just saw a whole thread saying you were taking a break? That was short. Welcome back?!
    Things worked out for the best and I didnt fell the need to do so, But thanks!
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    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabotage70 View Post
    RED DRAGONS!!!!
    Young Wing! Tussin Wolf!
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwestm View Post
    SNIP The one thing I disagree with is the guy baiting the cop by going to the checkpoint again. A lot of OCers get flack about "baiting" cops and posting videos online.
    You can counter the flak batteries by pointing out there is absolutely nothing wrong with citizens investigating police to ensure the police are conducting themselves properly.

    There is no reason to wait for the ACLU to run to the scene and possibly miss 4th Amendment violations. Or, perhaps never find out about them.

    Driving back through a roadblock to test that the police response is entirely legal and proper. In fact, it is patriotic.

    In this character of the Americans, a love of freedom is the predominating feature which marks and distinguishes the whole: and as an ardent is always a jealous affection, your colonies become suspicious, restive, and untractable, whenever they see the least attempt to wrest from them by force, or shuffle from them by chicane, what they think the only advantage worth living for. This fierce spirit of liberty is stronger in the English colonies probably than in any other people of the earth; and this from a great variety of powerful causes; which, to understand the true temper of their minds, and the direction which this spirit takes, it will not be amiss to lay open somewhat more largely...

    Permit me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit...In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study...all who read, and most do read, endeavour to obtain some smattering in that science...This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterous, prompt in attack, ready in defence, full of resources. In other countries, the people, more simple, and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principle in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principle. They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze...--Edmund Burke, speech to Parliament on conciliation with the colonies, March 22, 1775 (Note that date. Lexington and Concord were a little less than a month away.)

    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...s/v1ch1s2.html
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-31-2010 at 08:35 PM.

  16. #16
    mattwestm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    You can counter the flak batteries by pointing out there is absolutely nothing wrong with citizens investigating police to ensure the police are conducting themselves properly.

    There is no reason to wait for the ACLU to run to the scene and possibly miss 4th Amendment violations. Or, perhaps never find out about them.

    Driving back through a roadblock to test the police response is entirely proper.
    Good point. He wasn't interfering with their work and wasn't trespassing. Nothing the cops could have done.

    Edit: It's BS how they assume you are guilty if you try to avoid the checkpoint and even have a cop waiting for people making U-Turns. Maybe someone doesn't feel like waiting an hour in a line of cars...
    Last edited by mattwestm; 12-31-2010 at 08:31 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    They can do that in NC too. Any EMT - I or Higher certified can draw blood.

    The BAATU Mobile (Batmobile for short) The one that is in the commercials, has an on board breathalyzer and if you refuse the test they can get a court order and the On board RN can draw blood with or without your consent. If an officer suspect your were DUI at the scene or an accident and he has suspession to believe you are DUI and you refuse the breathalyzer then he can have medics on the scene draw blood as evidence. This has been going on for a while now .
    The Breath Alcohol Testing (BAT) Mobile Unit also has a Judge on it... been in it once

  18. #18
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoGlock4U View Post
    The Breath Alcohol Testing (BAT) Mobile Unit also has a Judge on it... been in it once
    Sure its a judge and not a magistrate? ( I was told it was a magistrate )
    -----------------
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    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    Sure its a judge and not a magistrate? ( I was told it was a magistrate )
    yeah magistrate :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith45acp View Post
    I always thought you had the option of either taking the breathalyzer, or giving up your license for a year. Most attorneys say it's easier to defend against a charge if you did take the breathalyzer... Is that just NC?

    Yeah I hate that the courts have ruled that these checkpoints/roadblocks are constitutional.

    A- They completely circumvent the normal requirement of reasonable suspicion

    B- They are ineffectual compared to the officers actually driving around and stopping vehicles that do warrant reasonable suspicion. There is a study on this that I don't care to link to right now.
    You are correct about the automatic revocation. Your refusal will also be used as evidence against you in your DWI trial. It is worth noting that you generally do have the ability to choose which test (blood/breath) you take, but if you use that as a delay tactic the officer (and judge) will eventually consider you to have refused to take a test.

    The justification legitimizing the stop is that operating a motor vehicle is a privilege, and you are always required to provide your authorization to do so (driver's license) at the demand of an LEO. As long as they are stopping everyone the stop theoretically isn't discriminatory, and will be considered constitutional. Interesting to note that in the seminal case here (Michigan v. Sitz if I recall correctly) the SCOTUS determined that checkpoint stop IS a violation of your Fourth Amendment rights, but that the State interest in preventing drunk driving is compelling enough to justify the infringement.
    Part of the "trick" is that the forced interaction gives the LEO the opportunity to form articulable suspicion of your being in violation of the law (i.e. being intoxicated or CCing without a permit). There is nothing about a roadblock that obviates the requirement that LEOs have probable cause to arrest you. Running because you see a cop, or avoiding a checkpoint both give rise to the suspicion required to stop you and investigate further under NC law. In some other states the mere avoidance of the roadblock is not sufficient to create the required suspicion.
    IIHS has details: http://www.iihs.org/laws/checkpoints.html

    Also, the State knows that checkpoints are not as effective at catching drunk drivers, but they are catering to public perception that they are catching more drunk drivers, which unquestionably escalates with the increase in roadblocks and "BATmobile" ads. The intent is to scare people away from drunk driving rather than catching them in the act.

    Tying back to the theme of this forum, I am sure that no-one here advocates mixing open-carry and alcohol, but for those interested in the legality of drinking and carrying, remember to check local ordinances. I would argue that there is a preemption problem here, but Apex Local Ord. 14-17.1. says:
    Firearms; display on public property while under the influence of an impairing substance.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person, while impaired, to display any firearm, gun, or pistol or any spring gun, pistol, or other similar device which impels with force any shot, pellet, or projectile of any kind on any street, sidewalk, alley, or other public property or within a motor vehicle on any street, sidewalk, alley, or other public property. Unless otherwise defined in Chapter 14 of this Code, all words and terms of this section shall have the same meaning as defined in Chapter 20 of the General Statutes and the phrase "while impaired" means:
    (1) While under the influence of an impairing substance; or
    (2) After having consumed sufficient alcohol such that a person has, at any relevant time after displaying of the firearm or device, an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more, as these terms are used in G.S. 20-138.1, impaired driving.
    (b) The chief of police or any member of the police department is authorized to seize and hold subject to order of court any firearm or device displayed in violation of subsection 14-17.1(a).
    (c) This section shall be enforced as provided in G.S. 160A-175 or as provided in this Code. Any criminal violation of this section shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $200.00 and up to 30 days in jail or both.
    (Ord. of 1-4-94, § 1)
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  21. #21
    Regular Member RoadKing's Avatar
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    Don't know about the Tampa story as it doesn't have a date, but I remember the West Palm Beach story, which is a year old. It kind of died away immediately after it was printed. Never went anywhere....

    RK
    Last edited by RoadKing; 01-06-2011 at 09:44 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    Any idea's as to what is on the paper he keeps holding up to the officers?
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

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