Why can't the Virginia State Police Follow Commonwealth LAW?

The Virginia State Police (VSP)execute the Criminal History Record Information Check. This is the Virginia Background Check.

Its code section is 18.2-308.2:2

What is the VSP Virginia Firearms Transaction Program doing wrong?

1) The VSP do not allow for the purchase of more than one curio and relic handgun per month.

2) The VSP require CHRI Checks for curently licensed Curio and Relic FFLs.

3) The VSP require payment of $2 for conducting NICs checks (federal checks required when no Virginia CHRI Check is needed), even though the code is clear that they cannot do this.

4) The VSP currently deny every non-resident alien check, even though these persons can lawfully have firearms transferred to them and openly carry them.

§ 18.2-308.2:2. Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms.



I. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors, manufacturers or dealers pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.; (ii) purchases by or sales to any law-enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the Commonwealth or any local government; or (iii) antique firearms, curios or relics.

Link: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.2C2

There is more, but this is a start. This is related to my FOIA thread. Expect more on that soon.

Better be careful...

Calling out criminals with badges for their criminal activity might be seen as "cop bashing" by some people.

Dreamer said:

Better be careful...

Calling out criminals with badges for their criminal activity might be seen as "cop bashing" by some people.

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The only one that sees factual complaints as cop bashing, is Novacop.
Fortunately, few people care what he thinks.

Dreamer said:

Better be careful...

Calling out criminals with badges for their criminal activity might be seen as "cop bashing" by some people.

Click to expand...

Dreamer,

I don't see VSP as criminals with badges. They are trying to execute a program that is complex with a shoestring budget.

They do not have the capacity to deal with the complexities of federal and Commonwealth firearms laws and regulation.

In my experience, the Virginia State Police have been very pro gun.

I intended to use this thread as a sort of sounding board. Should we push to end the Virginia checks or should we push to have the VSP be more meticulous in following the law?

Remember this law and the VSP killed the Brady waiting periods, bringing us instant checks instead.

I can't follow the original thread - please re-write to more clear - are you talking about all guns, curios and relics, what?

Clearly a fee per check is authorized by Va. law for example.

POC state to NICS state?

Thundar said:

I intended to use this thread as a sort of sounding board. Should we push to end the Virginia checks or should we push to have the VSP be more meticulous in following the law?

Remember this law and the VSP killed the Brady waiting periods, bringing us instant checks instead.

Click to expand...

Currently, Virginia is a Point-of-Contact state, as are a few others. Some states choose to have the FBI run all background checks -- paid for by Congress.

So, why not advocate becoming like most of the other states and have the FBI run the checks for purchases and transfers here?

No 'user fee' for NICS checks

Mike said:

I can't follow the original thread - please re-write to more clear - are you talking about all guns, curios and relics, what?

Clearly a fee per check is authorized by Va. law for example.

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That is correct.

But, courtesy the so-called "NICS Improvement" Amendments, user fees are prohibited for NICS checks:

(f) User Fee- The Federal Bureau of Investigation shall not charge a user fee for background checks pursuant to section 922(t) of title 18, United States Code.

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Dreamer said:

Better be careful...

Calling out criminals with badges for their criminal activity might be seen as "cop bashing" by some people.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I'm confused. Can you please explain what crime is being committed here? What I see is an agency not following (in the OP's estimation) a procedure. What is the criminal statute and associated penalty?

ProShooter said:

I'm sorry, I'm confused. Can you please explain what crime is being committed here? What I see is an agency not following (in the OP's estimation) a procedure. What is the criminal statute and associated penalty?

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malfeasance

Repeater said:

That is correct.

But, courtesy the so-called "NICS Improvement" Amendments, user fees are prohibited for NICS checks:

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But state law requires fees for checks run thru the VSP - I see nothing illegal here.

Mike said:

I can't follow the original thread - please re-write to more clear - are you talking about all guns, curios and relics, what?

Clearly a fee per check is authorized by Va. law for example.

Click to expand...

Please give a cite for your example.

My plain reading of the code is that a charge can only be made for checks required by 18.2-308.2:2 (subsection J1). Curio and Relic Firearms are exempt from CHRI checks (Section I) therefore no fee can be charged by the VSP.

Clearly a fee is not authorized by Va law for curio and relics.

Clearly a fee is not authorized for somebody with a valid Curio and Relics License. This applies even if they want to buy a modern Glock or even 2 or more modern Glocks - even if they don't have a CHP! (subsection I). Of course a NICs check is required for a C&R Collector to by two modern Glocks, but the VSP cannot collect $2 for NICs checks, only for CHRI (Virginia) Checks.

Repeater said:

Currently, Virginia is a Point-of-Contact state, as are a few others. Some states choose to have the FBI run all background checks -- paid for by Congress.

So, why not advocate becoming like most of the other states and have the FBI run the checks for purchases and transfers here?

Click to expand...

The FBI can only grant POC status to the extent that state agencies and localities are authorized by state law to conduct checks. There is no authorization in the Code of Virginia for the VSP to conduct checks for Curio and Relic Firearms or persons with C&R Licenses.

What that means is the FBI should make another distinction on their POC chart for Virginia. VSP for handguns and long guns except for Curio and Relic firearms and Modern Firearms transfers to C&R License holders.

What it also means is that the VSP should return all of the $2 fees that they have collected for curio and relic background checks, as well as any checks done on those with C&R licenses, as they were not authorized to collect them under Commonwealth law. I have about 40 of those checks myself in the past 3 years.

What it also means is that the FBI should give Virginia FFLs access to the NICs system, including ezcheck.

OK, now i think I know what you are trying to tell us - that per "I. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors, manufacturers or dealers pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.; (ii) purchases by or sales to any law-enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the Commonwealth or any local government; or (iii) antique firearms, curios or relics," (https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.2C2) people who buy "antique firearms, curios or relics" are exempt from virginia background checks.

OK, but what about federal law - do transfers of curios and relics from dealers require NICS checks? i think they do, yes?

Im confused with number 4, of the original post. Are you saying the VSP are denying every non resident check for no reason at all. I hate to say this but i call BS on this one.

Also the State does not require a check for curios and relics if a dealer is running that transaction they (the state police) would have no way of knowing. So for your statement that the State owes the 2.00 back to people that bought them and had checks done then they need to take it up with the dealer.

on a side note a curios and relics license is only good for curios and relics nothing more trying to use it to purchase a modern firearm does not work. you are reading way to much into the statute. with reguards to section I i think you are not following the part of pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq. which would lead me to believe that if NICS requires a check according to that section then VSP follows suit.

look i saw your previous post and all about the FOIA that you state the VSP were dragging their feet but you sent the request on 12/21 and then post that you are frustrated that they have not filled the request on 12/23 which was a state holiday by the way. So you sent the request on 12/21 and are complaining 2 days later that its not done. Maybe try and call the FTC and ask for Donna Tate and see what she says. Thats what i would do before i start claiming the sky is falling.

tkd2006 said:

Im confused with number 4, of the original post. Are you saying the VSP are denying every non resident check for no reason at all. I hate to say this but i call BS on this one.

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It is in the VSP manual. I'll get the quote in the morning.

Mike said:

OK, now i think I know what you are trying to tell us - that per "I. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) transactions between persons who are licensed as firearms importers or collectors, manufacturers or dealers pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.; (ii) purchases by or sales to any law-enforcement officer or agent of the United States, the Commonwealth or any local government; or (iii) antique firearms, curios or relics," (https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.2C2) people who buy "antique firearms, curios or relics" are exempt from virginia background checks.

OK, but what about federal law - do transfers of curios and relics from dealers require NICS checks? i think they do, yes?

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Yes, of course they require a NICs Check. But VSP can't charge for a NICs check, only a CHRI Check. I can't find any authorization in the code for the VSP to do NICs only checks, or to assume sole Piont of Contact (POC) responsibility for Virginia.

tkd2006 said:

look i saw your previous post and all about the FOIA that you state the VSP were dragging their feet but you sent the request on 12/21 and then post that you are frustrated that they have not filled the request on 12/23 which was a state holiday by the way. So you sent the request on 12/21 and are complaining 2 days later that its not done. Maybe try and call the FTC and ask for Donna Tate and see what she says. Thats what i would do before i start claiming the sky is falling.

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I never said the VSP were dragging their feet, nor have I complained about how long it takes. The FTC was my first call on the Virginia side. If they had reasonable answers I would not have filed the FOIA.

tkd2006 said:

on a side note a curios and relics license is only good for curios and relics nothing more trying to use it to purchase a modern firearm does not work. you are reading way to much into the statute. with reguards to section I i think you are not following the part of pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq. which would lead me to believe that if NICS requires a check according to that section then VSP follows suit.

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There is no doubt that a NICs check is required for a C&R Licensee to purchase modern firearms from a dealer.

There is also no doubt that a CHRI Check (Virginia Check) is not needed for a C&R Licensee to purchase modern firearms from a dealer.

Thundar said:

It is in the VSP manual. I'll get the quote in the morning.

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Ill go ahead and clarify this one for you, the manual does not say they deny every non resident transaction it says that all non resident transactions are delayed since a response from ICE is needed to go forward. Its small comments like this that when people read posts like this think the VSP is wrong when in fact its the poster that has his information wrong.