.44 Magnum: Dirty Harry Style

SouthernBoy said:

I was under the impression the .454 Casull Magnum was introduced in 1972. I have an issue of Guns & Ammo which has it featured in a gun test. Quite impressive at 2000 fps and 2100 ft/lbs of energy as I recall (I'm not going to go down into my basement to did up the magazine for this). And yes, it was more powerful than the .44 Magnum by a good margin. It used a tri-plex load behind a 300gr bullet as memory serves.

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I think your right SB.
The 44 Mag isn't the awesome powerhouse it's made out to be. It really isn't much more powerful than the 30/30 which is considered minimum for Deer in many circles.

It is a very versatile cartridge though.

The Casull is more powerful and you can shoot 45lc in it. I love the 45 but accuracy falls off in the Casull chamber though.

peter nap said:

I think your right SB.
The 44 Mag isn't the awesome powerhouse it's made out to be. It really isn't much more powerful than the 30/30 which is considered minimum for Deer in many circles.

It is a very versatile cartridge though.

The Casull is more powerful and you can shoot 45lc in it. I love the 45 but accuracy falls off in the Casull chamber though.

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If I was staring at some 700lb toothy critter, I would choose the .44 over the .30-30 anyday.
I find it kind of annoying that many people (I'm not saying you're one of them, Peter) only consider energy figures when looking at how effective or powerful a cartridge is. There is way more to the picture. If energy is the only criteria then the .30-30 is a better cartridge for killing buffalo than the old 400 and 500 grain .45-70 loads that the buffalo hunters used. I think they'd laugh at the notion.
The .30-30 has about as much muzzle energy as a .454 Casull, but I wonder how many of Africa's big 5 could be safely taken with a .30-30... The .454, .475, and even the .44 Mag have accounted for quite a few.

Sorry, I guess that was a bit of a rant. :banghead:

stickbow95 said:

If I was staring at some 700lb toothy critter, I would choose the .44 over the .30-30 anyday.
I find it kind of annoying that many people (I'm not saying you're one of them, Peter) only consider energy figures when looking at how effective or powerful a cartridge is. There is way more to the picture. If energy is the only criteria then the .30-30 is a better cartridge for killing buffalo than the old 400 and 500 grain .45-70 loads that the buffalo hunters used. I think they'd laugh at the notion.
The .30-30 has about as much muzzle energy as a .454 Casull, but I wonder how many of Africa's big 5 could be safely taken with a .30-30... The .454, .475, and even the .44 Mag have accounted for quite a few.

Sorry, I guess that was a bit of a rant. :banghead:

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No, it's a legitimate rant and one I happen to agree with. The comparison was meant to show that the 44 isn't a doomsday cartridge. Shot placment is still key because it won't blow heads off or huge chunks of meat.

Getting killing power in the real world, I always prefer large bores. The .730 DDR is sort of an extreme example, but I love the thing.

I don't like to depend on controlled expansion. There are too many variables. Big bores are pre expanded and all I have to do is put in the right spot.

I feel the term "controlled expansion" is an oxy-moron for the exact reason you mention: Too many variables. It's almost a crap-shoot as to whether you get too much expansion, not enough, or the bullet fails to hold together.
Better to just sling a larger hunk of lead.

"It's like killing roaches - you have to kill 'em all, otherwise what's the use?"

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Ah, and therein lies the problem: Paul unquestionably has the better gun, but lacks adequate respect for the human race.

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One must only look at BAJA to know a simple truth.....
Sometimes the "race track" is cluttered with "vehicles" that should not be allowed to participate


Whether the bleeding hearted like it or not, the "Kersey Quote" is more fact than rhetoric.

It is the cancer of "tolerance" and "compassion" toward the criminal element of our society that has led us to where we are today.

Sorry.
Sometimes you have to abandon the failed policies of the late 20th and 21st Centuries and fight your wars with the proven tactic of ATTRITION.
Only when there are no longer any "enemies" left, you become truly safe from attack.

marionmedic said:

One must only look at BAJA to know a simple truth.....
Sometimes the "race track" is cluttered with "vehicles" that should not be allowed to participate


Whether the bleeding hearted like it or not, the "Kersey Quote" is more fact than rhetoric.

It is the cancer of "tolerance" and "compassion" toward the criminal element of our society that has led us to where we are today.

Sorry.
Sometimes you have to abandon the failed policies of the late 20th and 21st Centuries and fight your wars with the proven tactic of ATTRITION.
Only when there are no longer any "enemies" left, you become truly safe from attack.

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Rather than crashing my car into those other racers from time to time I may feel should not be allowed to participate, I tend to favor relying on the track officials.

The Donkey said:

Rather than crashing my car into those other racers from time to time I may feel should not be allowed to participate, I tend to favor relying on the track officials.

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yeah, that's working out oh so very well across the Nation.

I don't drink kool-aid.

TWO facts you need to keep at the very TOP of your thoughts every day......

1) The average response time (Nationally) to a 911 call, by those "track officials", is TWELVE MINUTES.

Without going into gorid detail, there is a LOT that can happen to a person in 12 minutes.....

I sit nightly on the phone with scared and violated 911 callers who are surprised and dismayed to find this to be true.

2) The number of "solved" crimes is substantially LOWER than what the MSM and HOLLYWEIRD would have you believe.

ONLY 4.7 out of every 10 MURDERS, aggrevated assaults, rapes, and robberies was "solved" by arrest.
That is LESS THAN HALF.

In the Nation in 2009, 47.1 percent of violent crimes and 18.6 percent of property crimes were cleared by arrest or exceptional means.

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http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/clearances/index.html#figure

The RAPE figures were 4 out of 10 "solved" by arrest.

UNFORTUNATELY, there is NO WAY to track the number of crimes "prevented".
But I am sure the "new breed" of criminal would gladly tell you that if they wanted to do something to you it WOULD get done.
(i reference the shootings in AZ where LEO and "security" was actually THERE and could not prevent it)

Law Enforcement is VERY good at citations and things they SEE.
But the sad fact is they are nothing more than "report takers" for over 50% of crimes.

I carry a gun.
Because a COP is far bulkier, AND because the gun is actually a DEFENSE to being violated and EFFECTIVE in STOPPING violations.

Sorry if this offends, or if the loud popping sound of balloon bursting startles anyone.

You misunderstand.

You are not talking about self defense when you say:

marionmedic said:

One must only look at BAJA to know a simple truth.....
Sometimes the "race track" is cluttered with "vehicles" that should not be allowed to participate


Whether the bleeding hearted like it or not, the "Kersey Quote" is more fact than rhetoric.

It is the cancer of "tolerance" and "compassion" toward the criminal element of our society that has led us to where we are today.

Sorry.
Sometimes you have to abandon the failed policies of the late 20th and 21st Centuries and fight your wars with the proven tactic of ATTRITION.
Only when there are no longer any "enemies" left, you become truly safe from attack.

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You are talking about murder.



If some other car is trying to wreck you, then you must do what is required to avoid the wreck -- even if it means the other car is wrecked.

Otherwise, rely on the track officials, please.

The Donkey said:

You misunderstand.

You are not talking about self defense when you say:



You are talking about murder.

If some other car is trying to wreck you, then you must do what is required to avoid the wreck -- even if it means the other car is wrecked.

Otherwise, rely on the track officials, please.

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No.

I said those "cars" don't belong on the track.

Not that we should "ram them", but that they should be elsewhere altogether.
Off the track, parked, or just on the side and not endangering others.

But lets stop mincing words and using euphamisms altogether......

I am talking about being realistic and not having PC ideals about what it takes to ELIMINATE a threat.

"Killing" and "murder" are two totally different things.
We don't MURDER attackers, and neither do our troops in battle.
We KILL the "enemy".

Your "enemy" is people who desire to harm you and your loved ones.

Yes....... ENEMY.

If you are carrying a firearm, you ARE prepared to KILL.
Or you are lying to yourself.
(assuming you are not one of the "just wing-em" crowd)

What I did above was agree with the proven tactic that.....The only way to STOP criminals, is to eliminate them entirely.
ALL of them.
And I mean they should be too scared to act, locked up, or DEAD.

NO QUARTER.

As long as there is "tolerance" of the behaviour, it will ALWAYS occur.
But when you take a "no tolerance" stance, you bring it to an end.

To think otherwise is like saying you think a gallon of drinking water is "okay" if it only has a tablespoon of raw sewerage added to it.

In direct response to the original intent of this thread. It's just IMHO that Dirty Harry was just trying to scare the criminal into peeing his pants. I believe he achieved the desired result. And at the time, the general population assumed, because they were not well informed, that the .44 magnum was the most powerful handgun in the world. It was touted as such during that time. I know, I lived through it. We can dissect this ad infinitum or we can just keep BS'in around to find out who is the best BS'er. As to taking a humans head "clean off his shoulders" I don't think nor do I care if indeed it can be done by a handgun. I know for certain that it will leave a very large gaping hole in the exit wound of a .44 magnum loaded with 240 grain hollow points. Just me sayin' it. And I wonder, was that Quote from marionmedic one from me, or was I not the one that originally said it in this forum or elsewhere? If it is I'll sure take credit, if I wasn't, then give credit where credit is due.

Also this is a quote from a Hollywood film. When was the last time you saw a film with weapons in it and thought gee that was a pretty accurate portrayal of that weapon's capabilities? Or for that matter a pretty accurate portrayal of anything? Just showmanship meant to entertain the masses, trying to read anymore into it is probably not helpful.

The only thing I know of that will blow your head "clean off" is a 120mm APFSDS-T. And I know that because I witnessed it at Range 301, Grafenwöhr, when an M1 gunner lost the safety fans and shot up two M3 Bradleys. One sabot round entered a Bradley driver through the left scapula and exited under under the right clavicle.

There was nothing left above the wound channel.

That's a pretty hard gun to pack, though, and it's hardly "clean". If you want to take someone's head off, use a guillotine.

I'd read a book, and I can't remember the name nor the writer, but it had as the opening an Egyptian offcer got his head removed by the same round from a Tank cannon. Never heard of that accident in Graf. But it's wayyy bad. From one DAT to another,,Howdy!

c45man said:

The 454 casull, developed in 1957, was more powerful than the 44 Mag. This cartridge was not a wildcat, factory ammo was available before 1972, the release of the first dirty harry movie.

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According to the Cartridges of the World: 11th Edition the first production revolver chambered for the .454 Casull was not introduced until 1983 by Freedom Arms. So while the cartridge may have been available, there was apparently no commercially available handgun chambered for it. When taken in the context of the movie it seems reasonable to conclude he would only be making a claim about what was commercially available at the time, and not including any custom handgun some obscure (or not so obscure) gunsmith could produce. YMMV.

KBCraig said:

The only thing I know of that will blow your head "clean off" is a 120mm APFSDS-T.

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Any of the rounds used in the GAU-8 Avenger will do the same. 5,556 grains of 30mm travelling at 3,500 fps... It'd be like shooting a grape with the .44.

so would anyone OC a 44 mag?...i just got a taurus 44mag 4" fullsize and im thinkin bout it replacin the judge for OC and a nice shoulder holster for CC

JoeGlock40 said:

so would anyone OC a 44 mag?...i just got a taurus 44mag 4" fullsize and im thinkin bout it replacin the judge for OC and a nice shoulder holster for CC

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I do it not infrequently with a 4" Smith and Wesson 629. In the city I load it with 44 special rounds which are pretty tame to shoot but plenty effective for two-legged predators; in the woods I load a hard-cast 320 grain max-pressure cartridge for bears and such. The .44 is actually pretty versatile that way.

JoeGlock40 said:

so would anyone OC a 44 mag?...i just got a taurus 44mag 4" fullsize and im thinkin bout it replacin the judge for OC and a nice shoulder holster for CC

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I plan to both OC and CC my 329PD when I get it.

i just picked up a taurus 44ss4 4" 44mag and its pretty sweet, i got a blackhawk leather belt holster for it and it seems to be like its gona be good for OC, im loaded up with hornady 225grain leverevolutions..anyone have any good or bad experiences with them or the gun?

FTG-05 said:

I plan to both OC and CC my 329PD when I get it.

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Just curious. What load do you shoot out of that? 329s are a handful with any full house magnum load. Most people don't like to shoot more than a full cylinder's worth (if that).