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Thread: Couple gets attacked at the movies. Armed bystander intervenes.

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    Regular Member bom1911's Avatar
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    Couple gets attacked at the movies. Armed bystander intervenes.


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    The reporter waits till the end of the story to mention (briefly) the armed citizen's role in stopping the attack.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    People keep saying you should only draw if you're going to shoot. This is an example where merely presenting a firearm de-escalated the situation.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Just be careful though. The use of deadly force does not mean that you actually fire... it means that you point your weapon. Use of deadly force does not always end up with a shooting; however, using deadly force implies that the subject has met the criteria to being lawfully shot.

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    TWENTY PEOPLE? And the marine was not the armed one? If I were attacked by twenty people, I would be glad I carry enough ammo for at least one each, but sad that I didn't have enough for two each.

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    just an FYI- i live 15 minutes from that movie theater in bradenton, and this is the first i'm hearing of a person with a gun...
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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    The response coulumns to the incident say all that needs saying.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Old News...

    I posted links to this story on 12/29/10 in the "News and Political Alerts" thread.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...LAC-CCer-in-FL...

    There were reports on local news websites that mentioned the armed citizen coming to the aid of the Marine and his wife. This fact has been in the news since day one...

    The reason I posted it in the "News" thread, and not here in the "True Tales" thread is because technically it wasn't "self defense". It was an armed citizen coming to the defense of someone else who was being attacked. It was a noble story of heroism, self-reliance, and personal responsibility. But its not really a "self" defense incident...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-04-2011 at 07:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    Are you saying all the racist idiots commenting on the video are correct? You hate black people?

    Not sure exactly how 6 comments from a bunch of rednecks "say all that needs to be said"... maybe you could elaborate?
    You can call it whatever you want, but because the black community has embraced and glorified the gangster lifestyle, you have young kids thinking that violent crime is normal and if you have a problem you uses violence to solve it even if it’s illegal . The simple fact what you call racist statements are in most case fact, even the FBI statics backs most of the stats that where posted... Simply blacks commit more crime per captia and the ghetto community glorifies this and they try to make themselves out to be the victims because they are black. Now there are hatefully posts on that video but the facts do not lie, because many blacks have been raised that these criminal actions are sociably acceptable and anyone who hold them accounting for their actions are bigots and racists. I certainly don't hate blacks; I hate the crimes they commit and the use of the race card as excuse for their actions. They say they hate the stereotypes that the government statics in most cases back, yet many refuse to stop glorifying the thug lifestyle and that they don't have to be held responsible for their actions. The stereotypes wont change if the black community refuses to change what they see as socially acceptable solutions to problems and the uses of the race card as an excuse for why they are "targeted"by law enforcement.

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2217

    Michael Rand, Jennifer Truman

    October 13, 2010 NCJ 231327

    Presents the annual estimates of rates and levels of violent crime (rape or sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault), property crime (burglary, motor vehicle theft, and property theft), and personal theft (pocket picking and purse snatching). This report describes the year-to-year change from 2008 and trends for the 10-year period from 2000 through 2009. The National Criminal Victimization Survey (NCVS) collects information on nonfatal crimes, reported and not reported to the police, against persons age 12 or older from a nationally representative sample of U.S. households. During 2009, 38,728 households and 68,665 individuals were interviewed twice for the NCVS. This report also includes data on the characteristics of victims of crime; estimates of intimate partner violence; and use of firearms and other weapons during the crime.

    Highlights include the following:

    * An estimated 4.3 million violent crimes, 15.6 million property crimes, and 133,000 personal thefts were committed against U.S. residents age 12 or older in 2009.
    * Violence against males, blacks, and persons age 24 or younger occurred at higher or somewhat higher rates than the rates of violence against females, whites, and persons age 25 or older in 2009.
    * About half (49%) of all violent crimes and about 40% of all property crimes were reported to the police in 2009. Violent crimes against females (53%) were more likely to be reported than violent crimes against males (45%).

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf
    Last edited by zack991; 01-04-2011 at 08:33 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AFPVet View Post
    Just be careful though. The use of deadly force does not mean that you actually fire... it means that you point your weapon. Use of deadly force does not always end up with a shooting; however, using deadly force implies that the subject has met the criteria to being lawfully shot.
    +1, and as those criteria vary quite a bit from state to state, it behooves us all to know them at least as thoroughly as we know our firearms!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
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    Funny how they leave out the part of the armed citizen scaring the kids away until an afterthought at the very end. Damned media...


    Here's a related video. It's got some racist editing and commentary, but has more footage:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc-2WYCh3pk

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooghost1oo View Post
    Funny how they leave out the part of the armed citizen scaring the kids away until an afterthought at the very end. Damned media...


    Here's a related video. It's got some racist editing and commentary, but has more footage:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc-2WYCh3pk
    "I just feel like I was embarrassed because I was plastered all over the news..." - "Destiny McNeil." My response: Yeah... Well, the video at 5:55 proves otherwise.

    "The movie theater did not have any security on staff that night..." My response: Has anyone ever gone to a movie where the theater had security? Not I, and I go to the theaters all the time. I've probably been to more than 100 theaters, including more than half a dozen in California. It's not the theater's responsibility to provide security. Security is the responsibility of all citizens.

    Video at around 5:48 is fairly accurate.

    You know what? This video has convinced me that if I'm ever forced to get into it in a crowded area, I'd better have more than a single spare magazine. From now on, I think I'll be wearing my two-pack on the left side, in addition to the spare magazine I carry in a pouch on my holster. That's 65 rounds, total. Should I ever go through it all, though, I'll have to hold my firearm until it cools. My holster is made of nylon.
    Last edited by since9; 01-07-2011 at 02:49 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    TWENTY PEOPLE? And the marine was not the armed one? If I were attacked by twenty people, I would be glad I carry enough ammo for at least one each, but sad that I didn't have enough for two each.
    I'd only have four shots to spare.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-07-2011 at 05:20 AM.

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    Good thing for the thugs that the Marine wasn't Brian Stann

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHMjshh1F9Y

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Just me sayin it Claytron but I think you're on the wrong forum. Folks in here believe in self defense. The man that brandished his firearm probably saved the life of that MARINE that is fighting on foreign soil for his country,was in grave danger,,,,right or wrong whether you believe in the war or not . The presentation of deadly force is a means to defuse a situation. The man did the right thing, he didn't feel the necessity of the use of deadly force and still got the desired results. I think sir you need to look at your core values an decide who the real victims here are. The couple that just wanted to watch a movie unmolested, or the "Black community" whom you say are being put in a category. Wrap your mind about the "what if" What if it were you and your lady? Get a grip on reality, the youth of America are becoming the problem, black , white or Hispanic. No one Parents their children anymore. No one teaches them respect for themselves or others.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member KevlarCowboy's Avatar
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    I'm just wondering if the LAC who brandished his weapon did not get the situation under control or the 20 or so teen's had turned on him, would he have been able to lawfully defend himself with lethal force?

    What I'm asking, is there some kind of law stating that a person can use lethal force due to an escalation of force? especially because there teenagers and possibly unarmed.

    I know you guys are arguing about statistics and who was right or wrong in this situation, regardless of who started this altercation its never right for 10, 15, or even 20 people to jump a person or a couple and no man should ever hit a women, period!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevlarCowboy View Post
    I'm just wondering if the LAC who brandished his weapon did not get the situation under control or the 20 or so teen's had turned on him, would he have been able to lawfully defend himself with lethal force?...
    Based on how those thugs behaved and the number of them, if they turned on the armed man, he would reasonably believe that his life was in danger which, in most States, is the standard by which his affirmative defense would be judged.

    IMO, yes.

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    well in the state of MO
    1) He or she reasonably believes that such deadly force is necessary to protect himself, or herself or her unborn child, or another against death, serious physical injury, or any forcible felony;

    5, 10, 15 guys would make me believe that deadly force would be necessary against serious physical injury. unless some of you think you are he-man and can take them all on and win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevlarCowboy View Post
    I'm just wondering if the LAC who brandished his weapon did not get the situation under control or the 20 or so teen's had turned on him, would he have been able to lawfully defend himself with lethal force?
    Well, there was a recent incident in Florida where a male jogger was deemed justified in shooting an 18 year old who assaulted him with fists. He was an older man and some people are angry that he didn't defend himself with his fists since he was initially up against fists. Who knows if the older gentleman is proficient in hand to hand combat amd if he has a chance in hell against a younger, stronger aggressor. Should he have to wait until the other man is grappling with him and strangling him or wait until he is knocked unconcious and then have a blade taken to his limp body before he makes that decision? Apparently there are some delusional people out there that think so.

    There is also a case of a fellow OC carrier in Wisconsin that was up against two inebriated men with violent histories that attacked him on the street and he's been charged with the murder of one of them as well as other charges in relation to his succesful self defense. He is also in a local enviroment where the authorities and some political activists are waging a war against self defense with the use of firearms despite the fact that he was legally able to do so under state laws.

    So much of this stuff can depend on the local authorities, their politics and their own personal beliefs as well as who the party is that initiated the attacks. If you defend yourself against the kinfolk of the local mayor or sheriff or wealthy business owner who with his friends started pummeling you with bricks, you may have a hard time in your attempts to justify it legally. Eyewitnesses, criminal history, and a litany of factors can come into play.

    The most important thing in my opinion is to save your life or the ones you love first and foremost.

    That man in Texas, he name escapes me, who in a well publicized event took a shotgun to the burglars killing them as they were leaving his neighbor's residence with their loot was never charged. In a state such as Maryland or New York, he would have for sure been charged with something, possibly murder. In an extremely liberal county in his home state of Texas, he could have been charged as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    That man in Texas, he name escapes me, who in a well publicized event took a shotgun to the burglars killing them as they were leaving his neighbor's residence with their loot was never charged. In a state such as Maryland or New York, he would have for sure been charged with something, possibly murder. In an extremely liberal county in his home state of Texas, he could have been charged as well.
    The only reason why he got away with that one is because the burglar turned to face him....
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    Are you saying all the racist idiots commenting on the video are correct? You hate black people?

    Not sure exactly how 6 comments from a bunch of rednecks "say all that needs to be said"... maybe you could elaborate?
    And just what the Hell is wrong with REDNECKS???

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    Quote Originally Posted by noname762 View Post
    And just what the Hell is wrong with REDNECKS???
    Those damn rednecks, always bringing up official gov't collected statistics to support their racist argument that committing violent crime is wrong.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    Im sorry but.... did say anything negative towards the marine or his wife....at ALL?

    The only thing i can think of is that i said we dont know if the couple were rude or racist, i entered it in a possibility for people to ponder while mulling over this story.

    are you saying because i dont hate black people that im automatically in cahoots with these criminals or something?? I responded to that guys post in this thread NOT because i thought the marine "deserved it" but because i didnt feel that every black person was at fault just because of the actions of a few.

    I think its YOU who needs to get a grip on reality and also better reading comprehension because i never implied in any way, shape or form that what this group of criminals did was ok. I never said that the man who ran for his gun was wrong.

    In the end, i think you are just peeved that someone is standing up for minorities. I honestly cant see anything from my posts that would lead an intelligent, articulate person to believe that i think these people deserved to be beaten by a group of thugs.
    Are you trying to say that I hate black people? Did I even imply such? I served 25 years in the US Army with men and women from all walks of life and most US states and territories. I did not try to imply that you had anything against the Marine nor his wife, just that the person who went after his pistol probably saved the couples lives.

    In the end you're just like most liberals that say "Some of my best friends are,," What makes you think that you are "standing up for minorities" and that you even have to. Did I say that "all black people are supportive of this activity" ??? I think not. Like I said,,rethink you're responses before you type it. I'm not peeved about anything.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    the man is right about that getto attitude tho. I have been in other places in the world and found that blacks in different countrys are mostly people that just try to make it from day to day and don't mind doing hard work to do it . but i also find that blacks form other countries do not like blacks from the u.s. some countries can't even stand american blacks and i have asked them why and they say that it is the attitude. hummm that says something when your own race in the world don't like ya which is to bad cause i have some blacks friends that are pretty good people and they don't suscribe to that getto attitude .their productive and have gone above what is really holding the black american back .....recycled getto attitude ... don't believe me ...just ask an african , english black . even nigerians, dominicans or others however , it doesn't matter if the couple were rude or racist ( which looking I don't think that he would put his woman in that kind of danger and he just came back from service where all races depend on each other and are trainer to curb any racist thought ) remember it is not against the law to hate in this country but it is against the law to harm ,which is what happened to this couple

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    The only reason why he got away with that one is because the burglar turned to face him....
    not just that but the burglars were violent crimminals from el salvadore and had been deported from us for violent crimes but came back , that and people petitioned in favor of the home owner and now the real reason ...the plain clothes detective that showed up was hiding behind his unmarked car so not to be mistaken as one of the perps (so he says) he was there in front of the mans house and could have identified himself and possibally prevented loss of life before shots were fired. that would look bad on the city of pasadena tx if the home owner was prosecuted and questions were raised, and now cause of that we have the right to protect neighbors property from events like this

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