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Thread: Another reason to hate the sun shine state's gun laws

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    Regular Member Kloutier's Avatar
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    Another reason to hate the Golden state's gun laws

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....t-restrictions

    Within the next few weeks, the law-abiding citizens of the State of California will find that their constitutionally guaranteed rights to self-defense and to be secure in their personal records against "unreasonable searches and seizures" have been violated once again. On February 1, the provisions of a 2009 law — AB 962 — will go into effect, with new reporting requirements for the purchase of ammunition, and the essential elimination of the rights of Californians to order ammunition from out of state.

    The adoption of AB 962 on October 11, 2009 is one more of the grave betrayals of the rights of Californians to occur under the misguided leadership of RINO Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who refused to veto the bill, despite his veto of similar legislation in 2004. Various legal challenges have been raised to provisions of the new law, but unless there is court action before the end of January, the law will go into effect February 1, 2011.

    The draconian provisions of AB 962 criminalize the transfer of ammunition in California in the absence of extensive reporting (including obtaining a thumbprint) for every sale. The Legislative Counsel Digest observes of the bill’s provisions:

    This bill would, subject to exceptions, commencing February 1, 2011, require handgun ammunition vendors to obtain a thumbprint and other information from ammunition purchasers, as specified. A violation of these provisions would be a misdemeanor.

    This bill would provide that a person enjoined from engaging in activity associated with a criminal street gang, as specified, would be prohibited from having under his or her possession, custody, or control, any ammunition. Violation of these provisions would be a misdemeanor.

    The bill would prohibit supplying or delivering, as specified, handgun ammunition to prohibited persons, as described, by persons or others who know, or by using reasonable care should know, that the recipient is a person prohibited from possessing ammunition or a minor prohibited from possessing ammunition, as specified. Violation of these provisions is a misdemeanor with specified penalties.

    The bill would provide, subject to exceptions, that commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction, with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of identity of the purchaser or other transferee. A violation of these provisions would be a misdemeanor.

    By creating new crimes, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

    Restricting ammunition sales is a relatively new tactic which the Left is using to deprive Americans of their constitutionally guaranteed right of self-defense. Since the Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionally enumerated right of possessing firearms for self-defense, the logical next line of attack for those who are waging war against our civil liberties is to take away the ammunition. The substantial penalties threatened against anyone violating the provisions of AB 962 (up to a year in jail and a $1000 fine) are enough to give pause to anyone except the criminals the law was purportedly enacted to stop from getting access to ammunition. And, in the minds of legislators, “ammunition” is a stunningly variable concept:

    For purposes of this subdivision, “ammunition” shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. “Ammunition” does not include blanks.

    Calling a speed loader or a magazine “ammunition” is like referring to an automobile transmission or a spare tire as “gasoline.”

    Thus far, the intimidation seems to be working. For example, Cheaperthandirt.com — one of the largest online retailers of ammunition, firearms, and related supplies — filed a Declaration in Support of a Preliminary Injuction in June which made it clear that the restrictions on “handgun” ammunition functionally banned the company from selling any ammunition to Californians:

    Because I do not know what “handgun ammunition” is under California Penal Code sections 12060, 12061, and 12318, CTD, Inc. will cease shipping all types of ammunition that are suitable for use in both handguns and long guns to non-exempt California customers beginning January 1, 2011 to avoid risking criminal prosecution under California Penal Code section 12318.

    At present, it appears that the only thing which could halt enactment of AB 962 would be a ruling in the case of Parker et al. v. State of California, et al. According to the “Daily Bulletin” at AccurateShooter.com:

    Right now it looks like “handgun ammunition” will be interpreted broadly, and this could include .223 Rem, 30/30, 7.62×39 — basically anything that has ever been shot in a handgun (even the single-shot variety).

    Not surprisingly, the California Department of Justice has not created any regulations to better define what constitutes “handgun ammunition” under AB 962. Currently, the Department of Justice is involved in litigation challenging the constitutionality of AB 962. The case, Parker et al. v. State of California, et al., is expected to go to trial January 18, 2011. The judge has indicated he intends to render a ruling before February 1.

    Meanwhile, the California Department of Justice has refused to provide any practical guidance that would better enable industry members to comply with the law’s vaguely worded definition of “handgun ammunition.”

    The Justice Department’s nebulousness in defining “handgun ammunition” is another element of the Left’s pattern of intimidation: Law-abiding citizens and frightened merchants will err on the side of caution, knowing that almost any sale might constitute the basis for jail time in the hands of a government which has apparently lost any regard for the rights of the citizens to whom it is supposedly accountable.
    Last edited by Kloutier; 01-01-2011 at 04:56 PM. Reason: wrong state nickname

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    you mean, Golden state?

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    Regular Member Kloutier's Avatar
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    Doh! your right!

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    you mean, Golden state?
    No, it's the Cereal State. What ain't fruits or nuts is flakes.

    This means ALL ammunition because of the Thompson Contender. I can't think of a caliber that TC hasn't made a handgun for, unless it's maybe a new caliber.
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    Might as well sell CA back to Mexico, or force all liberals to live in their utopia.
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    This means ALL ammunition because of the Thompson Contender. I can't think of a caliber that TC hasn't made a handgun for, unless it's maybe a new caliber.
    7.62X39, as far as I know was never chambered in the contender.

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    Regular Member Taz's Avatar
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    Should this go into effect, firearms shops, and ammunition suppliers, should just make every officer, local, state, and federal, stand for prints every time they want to buy. Thats even if there is some loophole in there for "only ones." That would include the ones that want to pick up for the department on purchase order. Might as well pay them back a little. Make them follow the law as well. No sense being shy about following the law. It would however, take a little effort on all the gunshops ans suppliers though. Just a thought.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper1 View Post
    7.62X39, as far as I know was never chambered in the contender.
    Wow! You got me on that one. I'm so proud and you are so smart.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper1 View Post
    7.62X39, as far as I know was never chambered in the contender.
    I have a 10 inch Gen 1 Contender barrel in this.

    Sorry...

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    Can I borrow it for a few months for accuracy testing?
    I've always been curious about whether the cartridge is inaccurate or whether it's the rifles that give it a reputation as an inaccurate cartridge.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper1 View Post
    Can I borrow it for a few months for accuracy testing?
    I've always been curious about whether the cartridge is inaccurate or whether it's the rifles that give it a reputation as an inaccurate cartridge.
    I'll make that one easy. It's the guns chambered for it. One of the most accurate match rounds ever was based on the 7.62x39 case. 6mm PPC. The .220 russian, 6mm AR, and I believe, the new 5.45 are based on it as well.
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    For purposes of this subdivision, “ammunition” shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence.
    Let's see, that includes rocks, marbles, nails, nuts, bolts, screws...

    So they're going to require Home Depot to keep accurate records, huh?

    This is what happens when citizens allow liberal, ignorant idiots to write laws.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Let's see, that includes rocks, marbles, nails, nuts, bolts, screws...

    So they're going to require Home Depot to keep accurate records, huh?

    This is what happens when citizens allow liberal, ignorant idiots to write laws.
    Clearly the definition is directed at material intended to be used as ammunition in a firearm, not to anything and everything that could be stuffed into the end of a muzzle-loader.

    This is not to say that I support the regulation. I just think that overreactions are counterproductive.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Clearly the definition is directed at material intended to be used as ammunition in a firearm, not to anything and everything that could be stuffed into the end of a muzzle-loader.

    This is not to say that I support the regulation. I just think that overreactions are counterproductive.
    I hear you, but would contend that including all non-ammunition items under the definition of "ammunition" is an overreaction on their part that's counterproductive with respect to our rights.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I hear you, but would contend that including all non-ammunition items under the definition of "ammunition" is an overreaction on their part that's counterproductive with respect to our rights.
    Peeking again? Or am I not "the only one on your ignore list" anymore?

    I would just remind you: "...projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence..." They ain't talking stuff you can shove into a muzzle loader or a Mythbusters cannon. They are merely covering themselves for any new-fangled projectile that the manufacturer chooses not to call a bullet.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    This is what happens when citizens allow liberal, ignorant idiots to write laws.
    Yep. It's like hiring a french teacher who's never ever spun a wrench or studied physics to draft legislation on vehicle emissions.

    I say it often, that the politicians who vote for these laws should be tried for treason.
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