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Thread: Connecticut Resident Wants to Shoot In NY

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    Connecticut Resident Wants to Shoot In NY

    Hi, first post in the NY forum.
    Last edited by RR917; 04-06-2016 at 08:33 AM.

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    Handguns no,rifle,shotgun,muzzleloaders ok,you cant even touch his/her handguns without a nys pp,legally.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    But as with any other state, what's in the locked case in your closed, locked car trunk isn't anyone's business but yours. Your choice.
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    If you bring a handgun into New York State you do so at your own peril. It's not legal for you to possess a handgun, locked in your trunk, stuffed in your ear, whatever, without a New York State pistol permit, and they don't issue them to out-of-staters.

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    Does NY not have an exemption for hunting/recreational shooting? Even NJ has one as long as you transport directly to/from the range/home.

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    Thumbs down

    wel
    Last edited by RR917; 04-06-2016 at 08:41 AM.

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    what
    Last edited by RR917; 04-06-2016 at 08:41 AM.

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    I'll bet they can only be fired at night so no one can see it.

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    Does NY not have an exemption for hunting/recreational shooting? Even NJ has one as long as you transport directly to/from the range/home.
    Nope. NY State resident here, and CCW holder. NY State only issues handgun licenses to state residents.

    NY State WILL NOT issue a handgun license to a non-resident.

    NY State allows its RESIDENTS to hunt (during specified seasons) with a handgun. Out of state residents holding a non-resident HUNTING license cannot hunt with a pistol, because possession of a pistol requires a license, and licenses are not issued to non-residents, ergo non-residents cannot pistol hunt.

    NY State also DOES NOT honor ANY OTHER STATES CCW/CCL license.

    Transporting THROUGH NY State is exactly what it says...you MUST be going THROUGH the state, with the handgun locked in a carry box, said carry box locked in trunk of vehicle, (+1 if you have it locked up with the slide retracted and locked back, and no mag inserted in the grip) with ammo stored separately, such as in the glovebox, with the glovebox locked.

    The only stops while transporting are for gasoline and restroom stops. Stopping to eat is REALLY iffy...best bet is to go through a McDonalds drive-thru, grab food, and eat while traveling.

    Also...the transport of two handguns is a misdemeanor, transporting three or more might be a felony (don't recall exactly where the felony/misdemeanor limit is, need to re-read the penal codes) unless you are a licensed NY CCW holder, in which case you can have a loaded gun in your holster while you drive, or two loaded guns, or three, and a few locked up in the trunk for the trip to the range, etc...

    Bottom line...even if you are following the letter of the law, its best to not transport a handgun into/through NY State.

    As for rifles,shotguns, and muzzleloaders...those are OK. AR builds are subject to the NY State AWB, which pretty much followed the Federal AWB that has long since expired. Only two attachments/enhancements are allowed, full auto EVEN WITH A FFL-7 FEDERAL LICENSE is BANNED in NY State.

    Play it safe...leave your AR build and handguns at home. Bring a skeet/trap shooting gun, or a typical deer gun such as a .308, .30-30, .30-06, etc., and you'll be OK.

    Or, just avoid NY like the Plague, go to a free state like Vermont or New Hampshire, and have fun shooting what you want the way you want...
    Last edited by DragonLW; 01-06-2011 at 12:16 AM. Reason: additional info

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    ^^^ very informative
    Last edited by RR917; 04-06-2016 at 08:42 AM.

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    NJ gun owner wants to shoot with me in CT

    My father in law is a NJ resident and gun owner. He wants to come shoot with me in CT. I am a CCW permit holder in CT. He can come and shoot with me at the range I go to with my guns but I wanted to know if he is allowed to bring his gun from NJ. If so, what are the stipulations and most importantly, where do I find documentation on this? (PS I am aware he cannot carry in CT and that is not what I'm asking. I figure he can transport through CT so if he stops at my house and the gun is in my possession from then on out, its ok? Whats the deal? On a related note, if he wanted to transfer ownership to me of his firearm at some point, how does he do that?)

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    Regular Member ronmanci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    Does NY not have an exemption for hunting/recreational shooting? Even NJ has one as long as you transport directly to/from the range/home.
    Yes we do, but it has to be a NRA sanctioned event. You must also show upon request proof of your participation in that event.

    Line #13


    http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$PEN265.20 $$@TXPEN0265.20+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=EXPLORER+&TOKEN =46612307+&TARGET=VIEW
    Last edited by ronmanci; 02-15-2011 at 10:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimano091 View Post
    My father in law is a NJ resident and gun owner. He wants to come shoot with me in CT. I am a CCW permit holder in CT. He can come and shoot with me at the range I go to with my guns but I wanted to know if he is allowed to bring his gun from NJ. If so, what are the stipulations and most importantly, where do I find documentation on this? (PS I am aware he cannot carry in CT and that is not what I'm asking. I figure he can transport through CT so if he stops at my house and the gun is in my possession from then on out, its ok? Whats the deal? On a related note, if he wanted to transfer ownership to me of his firearm at some point, how does he do that?)
    Here is the link your looking for:

    http://www.nraila.org/recmap/usrecmap.aspx

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    Follow up to NJ - CT question

    Is it correct to assume that because a NJ gunowner/permit holder is allowed to transport through the state of CT that as long as he followed the law to the letter(lock box, locked trunk, no ammo etc) then if he drove into my driveway and I opened his trunk, unlocked the box and took out the gun (as a CCW permit holder in CT) everything would be legal as the gun would no be in the hands of a permit holder with a valid CT permit? Sorry if this was already answered, but its so frustrating to have family in different state who want to shoot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimano091 View Post
    Is it correct to assume that because a NJ gunowner/permit holder is allowed to transport through the state of CT that as long as he followed the law to the letter(lock box, locked trunk, no ammo etc) then if he drove into my driveway and I opened his trunk, unlocked the box and took out the gun (as a CCW permit holder in CT) everything would be legal as the gun would no be in the hands of a permit holder with a valid CT permit? Sorry if this was already answered, but its so frustrating to have family in different state who want to shoot.
    I hold and utilize a CT permit as well as my NY license.

    I question whether a NJ pistol owner can even bring guns into Connecticut for this purpose. Before you even consider the legality of the transport through New York, you must address the threshold issue of whether 926a (FOPA) applies to this trip. 926a requires that the possession be lawful at the place of origin and lawful at the destination. New Jersey is not an issue if he is already allowed to possess them there, but my problem is with CT. CT only allows purchase and limited transportation without a CT permit:
    Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28.

    The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise,

    or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business,

    or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another,

    or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired,

    or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides,

    or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority,

    or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33.

    For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.
    You tell me which exemption applies to someone who wants to go shooting in CT with a friend/relative...because I don't think there is an exemption. During the course of target shooting you inevitably "carry" the weapon at some point, possession at the range would be illegal, any activities outside of the range would be more illegal. I don't think the person would have a legal destination under FOPA, and therefore, the transport through New York wouldn't be protected. They would then be subject to possessory offenses in both NY and CT.

    The short answer to your quoted question is no. To be a protected journey he must be able to stop at his destination, get out and possess the firearm, either loaded or unloaded. If there is no legitimate legal destination within the state, then not only is he illegal in CT but he is illegal in NY as well.

    PS. Anyone who claims to know anything with any degree of certainty, about how FOPA applies to magazines and ammunition is either lying or misinformed.
    Last edited by emsjeep; 02-16-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emsjeep View Post
    I hold and utilize a CT permit as well as my NY license.

    I question whether a NJ pistol owner can even bring guns into Connecticut for this purpose. Before you even consider the legality of the transport through New York, you must address the threshold issue of whether 926a (FOPA) applies to this trip. 926a requires that the possession be lawful at the place of origin and lawful at the destination. New Jersey is not an issue if he is already allowed to possess them there, but my problem is with CT. CT only allows purchase and limited transportation without a CT permit:


    You tell me which exemption applies to someone who wants to go shooting in CT with a friend/relative...because I don't think there is an exemption. During the course of target shooting you inevitably "carry" the weapon at some point, possession at the range would be illegal, any activities outside of the range would be more illegal. I don't think the person would have a legal destination under FOPA, and therefore, the transport through New York wouldn't be protected. They would then be subject to possessory offenses in both NY and CT.

    The short answer to your quoted question is no. To be a protected journey he must be able to stop at his destination, get out and possess the firearm, either loaded or unloaded. If there is no legitimate legal destination within the state, then not only is he illegal in CT but he is illegal in NY as well.

    PS. Anyone who claims to know anything with any degree of certainty, about how FOPA applies to magazines and ammunition is either lying or misinformed.
    I agree with you and I don't think this would fall under FOPA because of the destination issue. I'm not so sure I agree with your P.S. I'm gonna do a little research because I am positive that I have read that a gun is considered loaded even if only, the magazine is loaded. I was under the impression that the mag is considered to be part of the gun and must be stored separate of ammo, and a loaded mag is considered a loaded weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmanci View Post
    I agree with you and I don't think this would fall under FOPA because of the destination issue. I'm not so sure I agree with your P.S. I'm gonna do a little research because I am positive that I have read that a gun is considered loaded even if only, the magazine is loaded. I was under the impression that the mag is considered to be part of the gun and must be stored separate of ammo, and a loaded mag is considered a loaded weapon.
    There is no definition of "unloaded" that applies to the federal statute and in NY if I have an automatic and one round of ammunition in my simultaneous possession the gun is loaded, the magazine never even comes into the discussion.

    A loaded magazine with no actual firearm present wouldn't fulfill the operability requirement of the possessory offense.
    Last edited by emsjeep; 02-16-2011 at 09:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emsjeep View Post
    There is no definition of "unloaded" that applies to the federal statute and in NY if I have an automatic and one round of ammunition in my simultaneous possession the gun is loaded, the magazine never even comes into the discussion.

    A loaded magazine with no actual firearm present wouldn't fulfill the operability requirement of the possessory offense.
    Not sure about that. I'll let you know what I come up with. I have read in print that the mag is considered part of the gun. Now I have to try to find it again. I can't remember where I saw it but it stuck with me because I never knew of it before I read it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmanci View Post
    Not sure about that. I'll let you know what I come up with. I have read in print that the mag is considered part of the gun. Now I have to try to find it again. I can't remember where I saw it but it stuck with me because I never knew of it before I read it.
    It is the case in maybe one or two states, CA IIRC, but on a federal level and here in NY I see no evidence after an extensive search. If you find something, I would love to see it.
    "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Inappropriate and not welcome here even if said in jest

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushwacker View Post
    hummm can I make a lot of money bringing handguns to ny if so how much should i ask


    You should ask for the state minimum 3 1/2 years in prison instead of the state max of 15.

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    Actually reading the law the way it was written, it seems that the gun can be considered loaded even it there is ammo present anywhere at the same time as the weapon is present. mag or no mag. As a LEO I think it's really grasping and just ammo for a plea, but it still real and from case law that exists, officers have made the arrest and DA's have decided to prosecute, with the verdicts being uphelp.
    What do you think after reading this?

    As featured at the 'New York Criminal Attorney Blog' as published by Tilem & Campbell:

    Posted On: March 23, 2009 by John Campbell
    New York Gun Laws - When Your Unloaded Gun Is Really Loaded

    Tilem & Campbell is fortunate to have former Firearms Trafficking prosecutor Peter H. Tilem as its Senior Partner able to advise clients on all aspects of New York gun possession. Under New York law, the severity of a Criminal Possession of a Weapon charge dealing with a firearm can hinge on whether the firearm was loaded or not. For example, one may be charged with Criminal Possession of a Weapon (CPW) in the Fourth Degree for simply possessing a firearm [See PL 265.01(1)]. Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree does not require that the firearm be loaded. Therefore, one is guilty of CPW 4th if they simply possess an unloaded firearm without proper licensing. Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the 4th degree is an “A” misdemeanor that carries up to one year in jail.

    However, if one possess a loaded firearm outside their home or business, the charge is CPW 2nd, a “C” felony which carries a mandatory minimum 3 year to a maximum 15 years in state prison. [See PL 265.03(3); PL 70.02(3)(b)]. Therefore, if you possess an operable firearm outside your home or place of business, the difference between facing an “A” misdemeanor (CPW 4th) which carries up to one year in jail with no mandatory minimum (which means probation is possible) and the “C” felony (CPW 2nd) which carries a mandatory minimum of 3 years in state prison has everything to do with whether the firearm was loaded.

    Here’s the problem. Your unloaded gun might be considered loaded under New York law. Under the Penal Law, a “Loaded firearm” is defined as any firearm actually loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses ammunition for that firearm. [See PL 265.00(15) for the exact definition of “loaded firearm”]. Therefore, the term loaded firearm means not only a truly loaded firearm but also the contemporaneous possession of an unloaded firearm and ammunition for that firearm. Accordingly, under the law of New York State, an unloaded firearm may actually be considered a loaded firearm.

    For more information or if you have been charged with any weapons offense, contact Tilem & Campbell toll-free at 1-877-377-8666 or visit us on the web at www.tilemandcampbell.com. For more information about New York’s gun laws, visit www.HandGunAttorney.com.

    Source - http://www.newyorkcriminalattorneybl...n_your_un.html
    Last edited by ronmanci; 02-17-2011 at 08:12 PM.

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    Thanks

    Thanks for all the responses. So basically, the only way I can get this gun from NJ to CT is to have him sell it to me and ship it from a gun store to a gun store in CT? If I'm hearing you right? That sucks, but if thats the case than thats the case...stupid laws. Thanks for bringing up NY too, I don't know why I didn't consider that, unless in my haste, I thought he was going to magically appear in CT from NJ. He would have to have a permit to possess a firearm in the place of origin and destination. I wonder if there is a place in NJ where he could throw the gun to me without crossing the border...short of that, it looks like I'm out of luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmanci View Post
    Actually reading the law the way it was written, it seems that the gun can be considered loaded even it there is ammo present anywhere at the same time as the weapon is present. mag or no mag. As a LEO I think it's really grasping and just ammo for a plea, but it still real and from case law that exists, officers have made the arrest and DA's have decided to prosecute, with the verdicts being uphelp.
    What do you think after reading this?
    OMG that is what I told you last month when we had this discussion...

    A loaded weapon is just as loaded if the rounds were sitting on the floor instead of in a magazine. The question is whether FOPA requires the magazines to be empty for transport, and no one has clarified that yet....
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1452477

    A magazine with ammunition is not a "handgun;" a handgun in one box and a box of ammunition in another box is a "loaded handgun."
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1452938
    If it is NYS law we are talking about, the mag has no part in the equation; the ammunition could be tucked up my rectum and the gun would be considered just as loaded as if the loaded magazine was sitting in it.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1453326
    An out of state resident with ammunition for their legally owned handgun must have a legal origin and destination, if not, the state law applies and they have a loaded "firearm" within the terms of state law which has nothing to do with magazines or locked containers for the ammunition etc.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1452198
    the distinction for "loaded" within the PL encompasses the mere possession of loose rounds
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1452428

    Ur killin me here guy.
    Last edited by emsjeep; 02-18-2011 at 01:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimano091 View Post
    Thanks for all the responses. So basically, the only way I can get this gun from NJ to CT is to have him sell it to me and ship it from a gun store to a gun store in CT? If I'm hearing you right? That sucks, but if thats the case than thats the case...stupid laws. Thanks for bringing up NY too, I don't know why I didn't consider that, unless in my haste, I thought he was going to magically appear in CT from NJ. He would have to have a permit to possess a firearm in the place of origin and destination. I wonder if there is a place in NJ where he could throw the gun to me without crossing the border...short of that, it looks like I'm out of luck.
    Its not exactly that you have to have a license or permit in the destination state, its just that you must be in legal possession at the destination. You could transport to PA for example without a PA LTCF because simple possession does not require a license.

    Diverse residents need to do handgun and long gun transfers through an FFL.
    "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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