Walt_Kowalski
Regular Member
:facepalm:
A RIGHT is being denied to you, and you think that there should be more training? for a RIGHT? jeez
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Texas: Rep. Burnam files bill in Legislature to restrict recognition of Right-to-Carr
- Thread starter Harleyman007
- Start date
:facepalm:
A RIGHT is being denied to you, and you think that there should be more training? for a RIGHT? jeez
CliffH
Regular Member
Some do see the licensing as a business opportunity. Why else would there be monetary objections to non-licensed carry? Such as the arguments that the state and instructors would loose money by not having the classes.
Your statement that the training makes sure one "can actually make the weapon function" isn't quite true - if you mean one's carry weapon. At the time I took the course I didn't own a semi-auto, only revolvers. In order to get the permission slip that would allow me to carry either type, I rented a range gun. So, I "qualified" with a range gun that I'd never seen before and will never carry.
rushcreek2
Regular Member
The argument about being familiar with relevant State law sounds reasonable - at first glimpse - until you reflect upon the fact that we live in the computer age - and who in Heaven's name can't google a law ? They google everything else.
As for as handgun proficiency goes - I think the gang-bangers manage pretty well without the training. But ofcourse I forgot - when your dealing with the "sheep" ........
Back to the issue of this Texas resident -Texas CHL only bill. Very bad idea.
No. 1 If it's about the money - which it IS - that's illegal. The fees are only supposed to balance the actual cost of processing applications for the Texas CHL.
No.2 Reciprocity is on the line here. I don't see this bill getting anywhere. If it were to make it to the Governor's desk - he SHOULD veto it - because he has put too much effort into reaching out to other states with reciprocity agreements, and unilateral proclamations. This bill would weaken the chain of reciprocity that has been a work in progress for years.
I would take it a step further by saying that based upon that figure that 6,000 people "living in Texas" -that's only .015 percent of the nearly 400,000 CHL's issued. My daughter-in-law in Grand Prairie, Texas finally got her CHL about 3 months ago, and she never entertained a thought about getting anything but a Texas CHL. As I've stated - many non-Texans place a higher value on their Texas CHL to cover their cross-country travels than their own State issued permit. Fees are diverted to Utah, BUT so is the COST of processing.
As for as handgun proficiency goes - I think the gang-bangers manage pretty well without the training. But ofcourse I forgot - when your dealing with the "sheep" ........
Back to the issue of this Texas resident -Texas CHL only bill. Very bad idea.
No. 1 If it's about the money - which it IS - that's illegal. The fees are only supposed to balance the actual cost of processing applications for the Texas CHL.
No.2 Reciprocity is on the line here. I don't see this bill getting anywhere. If it were to make it to the Governor's desk - he SHOULD veto it - because he has put too much effort into reaching out to other states with reciprocity agreements, and unilateral proclamations. This bill would weaken the chain of reciprocity that has been a work in progress for years.
I would take it a step further by saying that based upon that figure that 6,000 people "living in Texas" -that's only .015 percent of the nearly 400,000 CHL's issued. My daughter-in-law in Grand Prairie, Texas finally got her CHL about 3 months ago, and she never entertained a thought about getting anything but a Texas CHL. As I've stated - many non-Texans place a higher value on their Texas CHL to cover their cross-country travels than their own State issued permit. Fees are diverted to Utah, BUT so is the COST of processing.
Last edited:
emk
Regular Member
I would submit to these ideas requiring training that, again, there are no mass killings or accidental discharges by people in states with easy to acquire permits (or none at all). Take Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia, Washington, and all the rest of the states where people OC with no license all the time: Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia, New Mexico, Nevada, Wyoming, Idaho, South Dakota, North Carolina, etc.
Just to put it underneath a coat I need training and an expensive permit? Pretty empty argument there. None of these states where carry is easy to do have these massive gun problems with tons of stupid people going crazy shooting everything in sight, and hardly any of them require more than a background check to conceal.
Just to put it underneath a coat I need training and an expensive permit? Pretty empty argument there. None of these states where carry is easy to do have these massive gun problems with tons of stupid people going crazy shooting everything in sight, and hardly any of them require more than a background check to conceal.
bushwacker
Regular Member
residents?
WHAT A BUNCH OF C*** texas residents must get texas CHL but out of state residents get to use their own , so this would say that people from texas are not smart enough to understand how other states train their classes or others states residents arn't smart enough to understand texas training so they can go ahead and use their own . like it has been said this is just a money thing in reallity we arn't suppose to have the infringement of licensing on our possesion of arms ( you know where I am going and what I am talking about ) if it was about safety then texas would require all states residents to go thru the same criteria as texins in order to carry in texas. humm (just think how much money texas would loose then, maybe thats why texas will let them slide as to where texins can't) I got mine in florida and it is reconized in just as many if not 2-4 more states than tx ,it is 7 yrs and cost less,is a weapons license ( allowed to carry more than pistolas i can carry kinves, nunchucks, black jacks.ect,ect,ect ) thats right in fl ,i can beat them , blast them or cut them.only in fl can i do this , the rest of states reconized . i can only blast them with the gun also florida theaches that the need for a weapon is usually when the criminal is up close on you not at some of the distances that you need to score for tx chl ( like at 15 feet a mugger is going to tell you he gonna mug ya), kind of a shoot em up gunbattle mentallity.and it is expensive to shoot all them bullets for the test anyway. thats why this texin got his cwl in fl. besides I drive a truck and need the expanded coverage of a florida license
WHAT A BUNCH OF C*** texas residents must get texas CHL but out of state residents get to use their own , so this would say that people from texas are not smart enough to understand how other states train their classes or others states residents arn't smart enough to understand texas training so they can go ahead and use their own . like it has been said this is just a money thing in reallity we arn't suppose to have the infringement of licensing on our possesion of arms ( you know where I am going and what I am talking about ) if it was about safety then texas would require all states residents to go thru the same criteria as texins in order to carry in texas. humm (just think how much money texas would loose then, maybe thats why texas will let them slide as to where texins can't) I got mine in florida and it is reconized in just as many if not 2-4 more states than tx ,it is 7 yrs and cost less,is a weapons license ( allowed to carry more than pistolas i can carry kinves, nunchucks, black jacks.ect,ect,ect ) thats right in fl ,i can beat them , blast them or cut them.only in fl can i do this , the rest of states reconized . i can only blast them with the gun also florida theaches that the need for a weapon is usually when the criminal is up close on you not at some of the distances that you need to score for tx chl ( like at 15 feet a mugger is going to tell you he gonna mug ya), kind of a shoot em up gunbattle mentallity.and it is expensive to shoot all them bullets for the test anyway. thats why this texin got his cwl in fl. besides I drive a truck and need the expanded coverage of a florida license
Last edited:
nonameisgood
Regular Member
I never said that we shouldn't be working toward unlicensed carry. I said that Texas has the authority (has taken the authority?) to license the carry of concealed handguns, and as such, they have the authority to restrict said licensing and use it to raise revenue for lawful purposes. When you move to the state, you are required to obtain a Texas drivers license. There is a period during which your out of state license is valid. I see nothing wrong with doing the same for as long as the state issues CHL's. Once we reestablish this as a right, such a fee would be illegal (as poll taxes were found to be.)
If the state desires to license carry, and we allow that to continue, then I see nothing wrong with causing people to obtain minimal training on use of the weapon, and allowing the state to collect fees. I disagree about people getting training is they think they need it. There are many people who keep guns in the home for defensive purposes, yet have never taken the weapon to the range and do not know the legalities of using said weapon. I have known people who carry weapons elsewhere and I have had a difficult time convincing them to get a small amount of training - above the one time the ex took them to the range and let them shoot 6 shots in the old S&W. We have failed as a society to prepare people to carry weapons, and this need to be rectified.
Someone mentions gang bangers "doing ok" without handgun training... last year, in a drive-by (not 3 miles from my house in a nice neighborhood), a shooter hit a windshield of one car, the tire on another, almost shot a nearby girl, and shot one guy in the ankle. And how often do we hear about bystanders being shot? Bad choice of strawman.
If the state desires to license carry, and we allow that to continue, then I see nothing wrong with causing people to obtain minimal training on use of the weapon, and allowing the state to collect fees. I disagree about people getting training is they think they need it. There are many people who keep guns in the home for defensive purposes, yet have never taken the weapon to the range and do not know the legalities of using said weapon. I have known people who carry weapons elsewhere and I have had a difficult time convincing them to get a small amount of training - above the one time the ex took them to the range and let them shoot 6 shots in the old S&W. We have failed as a society to prepare people to carry weapons, and this need to be rectified.
Someone mentions gang bangers "doing ok" without handgun training... last year, in a drive-by (not 3 miles from my house in a nice neighborhood), a shooter hit a windshield of one car, the tire on another, almost shot a nearby girl, and shot one guy in the ankle. And how often do we hear about bystanders being shot? Bad choice of strawman.
billv
Regular Member
Ah CHL stories - in my class the instructor said he's had guys ask him "how can I legally kill someone". They get thrown out on their butts fairly quickly. Then in his truck on the way to the range, he's talking on the phone to someone about what the guy needs to do to get a felony conviction expunged so the guy can CC. Go figure.
Then there's the old man - in TX if you qualify with semi, you can carry either a semi or revolver, but if you qualify with a revolver you only carry a revolver. So old guy goes home to get his brand spanking new, never fired before Ruger. I had qualified earlier so didn't go to the range that day. When I return for the rest of the class the old guy is arguing with the gun store salesman that the Ruger sucks - seemed it jammed four times in 60 rounds and wanted his money back because the gun was defective. The guy was acting like a child - they eventually told him to leave when started to become abusive. Not sure if it ever got his CHL, but if I'd been the instructor, he'd had not.
The instructor mentioned another instructor where you get your paperwork in 15 minutes with no time on the range (all this is illegal of course). Says that 90% of the people that get CHL from him wind up losing it within a year since they don't know the laws, etc.
DKSuddeth
Accomplished Advocate
supreme court precedent tells us that it's unconstitutional for a state to license a right protected by the US constitution.
bushwacker
Regular Member
hey listen up fellow Texans, even Commifornia allows you to open carry ...don't believe me ....just search california open carry videos and watch the many examples available. kinda of making texas look a little more anti- american when commifornia allows open carry and taxes thats right ,i said it ,TAXES doesn't or you can change the name one more time to texass after all it was tajas before it was texas...right
MR Redenck
Regular Member
Everybody I know has gun's. Everybody I know understands that if you point it at something and pull the trigger a bullet will fly out of the end of it. Everybody I know really has no intention on killing anyone that isnt a direct threat to them. Everybody I know understand criminal dont give a crap about your helth or what the laws say. Everybody I know doesnt need a "class" to teach them how to point a damn gun and pull the trigger!
I dont know anyone who has not ever seen a gun!
nonameisgood, where do you get your information? Do you live in a Liberal Austin neighborhood or something?
Actually I couldnt give less of a crap if people need gun training or not. Constitutional Right's should not be regulated or restricted. If people do not choose to exercise them because they feel to stupid to, then that's fine with me. Just dont compair me to the stupidity of others!
I dont know anyone who has not ever seen a gun!
nonameisgood, where do you get your information? Do you live in a Liberal Austin neighborhood or something?
Actually I couldnt give less of a crap if people need gun training or not. Constitutional Right's should not be regulated or restricted. If people do not choose to exercise them because they feel to stupid to, then that's fine with me. Just dont compair me to the stupidity of others!
Cowboy_Rick
Regular Member
I was raised in a place and time whereas everybody was taught how to care for and use firearms for protection of oneself and others, also the protection of cattle and property, but those days are gone. Yesterday, I had a horse shot in the face with a .30 caliber rifle, was it an accident? No one will know because the witness, the horse, is now dead. It is being worked as a FELONY (cruelty ot Animals), but the outcome, is of course, UNKNOWN. For people to carry in this day and age TRAINING is of the utmost importance. It would be nice and most appreciated if people would seek such information on their own without the necessary of obtaining a LICENSE to prove that they had, but we must be real. You may trust in GOD but everybody else pays CASH. I am a LIFETIME member of the NRA and retired U.S.ARMY, ex-LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, FARRIER, BLACKSMITH and CREW CHIEF with a MAJOR AIRLINES-education is a GOOD THING. I also have a Concealed Carry License and am patiently waiting the ruling on OPEN CARRY, and VEHICLE CARRY to and from WORK-I pray that it will come soon, if not sooner. If A LICENSE is required-then so be it!
Last edited:
bushwacker
Regular Member
well as an ex lawman you should have some buddies that could get a bullistic done on that slug, if not Iam sure p.e.t.a. or one of those groups would be glad to help, after all dna was used to collar the pocher of which shot that big elk for his rack on yellowstone.. so if shooter is unknown how is it known to be 30 cal unless you do have the bullet or the shell. well good luck with it
Cowboy_Rick
Regular Member
Thank You, Bushwacker, it is hard for me because I have had horses all of my life and have worked cattle for many ranches throughout the Southwest-hence the Nick name COWBOY. This is like one of my family has been murdered. Today the Mare that was with her coliced and has also died before I could get to her to help. I definitely am waiting for OPEN CARRY and PARKING LOT CARRY at our places of work so that I can hopefully make a difference next time. The LEO's in this area are going to keep a vigil on this place hourly while I am not at home. Since it is a FELONY everybody in the LEO community are looking so hopefully this person can be apprehended.
Cowboy_Rick
Regular Member
Update on Scarlet and MOMMA
These are the two horses that died due to the dastardly deeds of persons or persons unknown. Just to the north of my property line lays the City of New Fairview, the City has an Ordinance that there is to be NO firearms fired within their City Limits. They have NO LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL, approximately 3000 people live there, found out yesterday that when the Coyotes are running it is mayhem and the coyotes are fired at no matter where they happen to be, in short, you are taking your life in your own hands when you are on your own property because the Coyotes are running. The "HOME SITES" are 2 acres on average, and the residents are firing all calibers of firearms in all directions-no matter what may be in their path! This must be stopped. This City lays in the jurisdiction of WISE COUNTY. WISE COUNTY is to send an Investigator to speak with me because I have lost 2 horses within 2 days of each's passing. The first, SCARLET, is being handled as a FELONY-I need OPEN CARRY for my own safety and as soon as possible also carry to and from work. Spoke with some of the residents and their mental capability is definitely in need of being expanded. I own approximately 8 acres and it is NOT SAFE to be out in my yard or pasture after dark when the Coyotes are "running". This is NOT right, and it is NOT my fault!
These are the two horses that died due to the dastardly deeds of persons or persons unknown. Just to the north of my property line lays the City of New Fairview, the City has an Ordinance that there is to be NO firearms fired within their City Limits. They have NO LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL, approximately 3000 people live there, found out yesterday that when the Coyotes are running it is mayhem and the coyotes are fired at no matter where they happen to be, in short, you are taking your life in your own hands when you are on your own property because the Coyotes are running. The "HOME SITES" are 2 acres on average, and the residents are firing all calibers of firearms in all directions-no matter what may be in their path! This must be stopped. This City lays in the jurisdiction of WISE COUNTY. WISE COUNTY is to send an Investigator to speak with me because I have lost 2 horses within 2 days of each's passing. The first, SCARLET, is being handled as a FELONY-I need OPEN CARRY for my own safety and as soon as possible also carry to and from work. Spoke with some of the residents and their mental capability is definitely in need of being expanded. I own approximately 8 acres and it is NOT SAFE to be out in my yard or pasture after dark when the Coyotes are "running". This is NOT right, and it is NOT my fault!
Last edited:
PT111
Regular Member
Cowboy_Rick brings up a great point that I have no real solution for that would not violate either 2A or the opinions of many about the curriculum of schools. I have known many people that are great shots, have hunted all their life, been around guns all their life but have no idea of the laws or safety rules of guns. What you have right here is people shooting the yotes yet having no idea of what is beyond their target or even sometime probably what is in front of their target. The discussion about how much better someone is at hitting targets on the range than the average LEO is a valid discussion but doesn't cover the entire gun scope. While I am all on favor of a person being allowed to carry a weapon I also am in favor of being sure that in some way that they know how to safely carry the weapon and use it. The average bullet can easily travel over a mile and that is more than a 2 acre tract will cover. I don't have a solution but I do know that it is a problem and I have seen it all my life. Too many people carrying a gun for defense, fun or hunting just do not understand anything other than how to shoot it.
Cowboy_Rick
Regular Member
2nd UPDATE ON SCARLET & MOMMA
I was told, today by a Neighbor to be "CAREFUL" because the people living north of me (approximately 40 residences) Half of them are ILLEGAL MEXICANS. So far the Sheriff's Office of Wise County says that it is under investigation-we'll see. I was told that if they find out then they may take "RETRIBUTION" against me. Can you imagine-they murder Scarlet and its my fault? MOMMA dies from STRESS and GRIEVING the loss of her best friend, SCARLET and they will take retribution against me for reporting the FELONY? Today I called the INS but the agent for Texas has not returned my call as of yet.
I was told, today by a Neighbor to be "CAREFUL" because the people living north of me (approximately 40 residences) Half of them are ILLEGAL MEXICANS. So far the Sheriff's Office of Wise County says that it is under investigation-we'll see. I was told that if they find out then they may take "RETRIBUTION" against me. Can you imagine-they murder Scarlet and its my fault? MOMMA dies from STRESS and GRIEVING the loss of her best friend, SCARLET and they will take retribution against me for reporting the FELONY? Today I called the INS but the agent for Texas has not returned my call as of yet.
Gunslinger
Regular Member
Last edited:
Last edited: