Conversation with Deputy Chief Brian Allan of Sparks PD, information on DUI thread

I spoke with Deputy Chief Brian Allan shortly ago regarding the incident which occurred at the DUI checkpoint along with Open Carry in Sparks, NV.

Conversation was about the following thread:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?84823-one-of-us-open-carry-at-dui-checkpoint

Open Carry
The police department in Sparks, NV knows about open carry and makes a good attempt to make sure they're not infringing on the rights of citizens. There are cases like the DUI checkpoint where the individual who originally made the statements regarding his incident left out details.

The DUI Incident
First off, the guy did _NOT_ file any complaint against the officers at the scene. Deputy Chief Brian Allan is one of the individuals responsible for reading the complaints against police officers. As of the time of the conversation we had, there is no complaint against the police over a fabrication of smelling alcohol.

What was discussed regarding the incident, (say-so from officer at the scene)<strike this>the individual not telling the whole story. The individual made movements towards his firearm which put law enforcement on high alert, triggering a response.</strike this>

I can't urge enough if an individual is having a lawful encounter with the police, to KEEP YOUR HANDS STILL AND NOT MANEUVERING AROUND THE GUN!

We also talked about individuals who believe they don't have to follow state law.

I'm not making any accusations, but the individual appears to be very much like the pastor in Arizona who was UNLAWFULLY tazed by border patrol for not getting out of his car during a LAWFUL checkpoint.

We'll see what happens as a result. I not to enthusiastic since he didn't file a police report yet.

My recommendation if you've a firearm on your hip, at night, and have a lawful encounter:
1) Inform the officer you have a weapon, but don't just say, "I've a gun."
2) Place your hand on your stomach, tuck a thumb in your belt away from the gun, or place your hand around your neck or head. (police would rather have your hand away from the gun(s))
3) If you want to follow the minimal set of required orders by law even if an officer is requesting more, don't be a douche.

Follow-up call:
Deputy Chief Allan was singing a different tune, as if he looked in to the issue further and is now clamming up. Probably after listening to parts of the Youtube video, which he stated to have listened to sections of the video.

insane.kangaroo said:

What was discussed regarding the incident, the individual not telling the whole story. The individual made movements towards his firearm which put law enforcement on high alert, triggering a response.

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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You'll pardon me if I take this assertion with a whole freaking salt-lick block.

I'm not making any accusations, but the individual appears to be very much like the pastor in Arizona who was LAWFULLY tazed by border patrol for not getting out of his car during a LAWFUL checkpoint.

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As I recall, when said pastor's case was tried in court he PREVAILED, and it was determined that the tazing was NOT lawful, and while the checkpoint itself may have been within the scope of the law the actions employed by those manning it exceeded the checkpoints objective AND authority.

Question for insane.kangaroo

Do the police ever lie to cover their backsides and stick up for each other? Just curious.

TBG

Lawful checkpoint, unlawful orders. Nobody is required to follow unlawful orders even if they are at a "lawful checkpoint". You are NOT required to engage the officer in any way, other than to indicate your non-consent. You are only required to obey lawful traffic direction orders, i.e. slow down, pull over, stop, etc. At a "lawful checkpoint" the officer is no more than a traffic control device, unless you CHOOSE to allow them to be more than that by consenting. The person in question here made it pretty clear that they did not consent to the confrontation, and had the officer been lawful, they should have been released at that time. End of story.

insane.kangaroo said:

First off, the guy did _NOT_ file any complaint against the officers at the scene.

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Correct.

As of the time of the conversation we had, there is no complaint against the police over a fabrication of smelling alcohol.

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Not by me, correct.

Deputy Chief Brian Allan

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As far as I know, he was not involved and did not witness the encounter. Let's see if I wrote his name, rank and badge number down in my notebook. Oh right, it was stolen.

The individual made movements towards his firearm which put law enforcement on high alert, triggering a response.

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Where did he get this info, from the stolen video camera? It's a crock of ****. I was scared of getting shot and consciously kept my hands up in plain view, away from my waist. Even without a gun, I would have done exactly what I did:

- hands on steering wheel at all times, except:
- left hand slowly moving to operate window control
- right hand slowly moving to turn ignition key in console to off position
- left hand slowly moving to operate door lock control
- right hand making a fist with an extended thumb in an exaggerated motion to operate the seatbelt lock
- right hand moving seatbelt away from body (weak extractor)
- right hand moving to passenger seat to pick up notebook in plain view

At the time I was attacked both hands were up near the steering wheel with the notebook in my right hand. Listen closely to the audio. He's got a clip...

We also talked about individuals who believe they don't have to follow state law.

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Like the Carson deputy who tried to enter my vehicle without a warrant? Like the arresting officers who contrived suspicion of a crime and probable cause to arrest for DUI/PWFI?

We'll see what happens as a result. I not to enthusiastic since he didn't file a police report yet.

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Why would I file a report with a department that has a documented history of harassing me? I could go to the Washoe Co. sheriff but they won't take reports of crimes committed in Sparks. I have other avenues to be exploited at a time of my choosing. Think of Heinz Guderian's combined arms attack: hit them with everything at once, Blitzkrieg.

Inform the officer you have a weapon, but don't just say, "I've a gun."

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From a locked vehicle where they can't put hands on me, I fear they'd just shoot.

Place your hand on your stomach, tuck a thumb in your belt away from the gun

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Place your hands near your waist, seriously?

Yard Sale said:

Where did he get this info, from the stolen video camera? It's a crock of ****. I was scared of getting shot and consciously kept my hands up in plain view, away from my waist. Even without a gun, I would have done exactly what I did:

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I reviews the youtube video again, I'm going to speak with Deputy Chief Allan again regarding the incident.

insane.kangaroo said:

I spoke with Deputy Chief Brian Allan shortly ago regarding the incident which occurred at the DUI checkpoint along with Open Carry in Sparks, NV.

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I am not sure why you bothered. Remember, there are two side of the story and it lies on them to prove their case. At least in theory anyways...

insane.kangaroo said:

Conversation was about the following thread:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?84823-one-of-us-open-carry-at-dui-checkpoint

Open Carry
The police department in Sparks, NV knows about open carry and makes a good attempt to make sure they're not infringing on the rights of citizens. There are cases like the DUI checkpoint where the individual who originally made the statements regarding his incident left out details.

Click to expand...

I am not sure which individual your referring to but it's pretty bold to make a statement of fact like this when you wern't there and don't have a shread of proof.

insane.kangaroo said:

The DUI Incident
First off, the guy did _NOT_ file any complaint against the officers at the scene. Deputy Chief Brian Allan is one of the individuals responsible for reading the complaints against police officers. As of the time of the conversation we had, there is no complaint against the police over a fabrication of smelling alcohol.

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Interesting that you would say this... is there a dead line on official complaints against Law enforcement officers? Does the OP only have 5 minutes to make the complaint or is it smarter to see how his charges play out and then get a lawyer to address his complaints.... Makes ya kinda go hmmm....

insane.kangaroo said:

What was discussed regarding the incident, the individual not telling the whole story. The individual made movements towards his firearm which put law enforcement on high alert, triggering a response.

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Yeah, I would assume officers would say something like that. Do they have proof? Other than their word that is...

insane.kangaroo said:

I can't urge enough if an individual is having a lawful encounter with the police, to KEEP YOUR HANDS STILL AND NOT MANEUVERING AROUND THE GUN!

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From the audio that was posted it "seems" as if this is what happened. Since there is no video I can't really tell. But it appears as if the OP was always trying to convey his intentions and trying to understand theirs.

insane.kangaroo said:

We also talked about individuals who believe they don't have to follow state law.

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Not sure what this is suppose to mean... IANAL but it appears the OP followed the constitution and the laws of NEVADA and WASHOE COUNTY.

insane.kangaroo said:

I'm not making any accusations, but the individual appears to be very much like the pastor in Arizona who was UNLAWFULLY tazed by border patrol for not getting out of his car during a LAWFUL checkpoint.

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Wait, you mean the pastor who was found not guilty because the border patrol agents violated his rights? Or is this some other pastor your referring to? You might want to check the facts before you post FUD as fact.

insane.kangaroo said:

We'll see what happens as a result. I not to enthusiastic since he didn't file a police report yet.

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Your enthusiasm not withstanding, I believe the OP has a year to file charges or complaint against the officers. Not sure why it is you think he should hurry into something like that.

insane.kangaroo said:

My recommendation if you've a firearm on your hip, at night, and have a lawful encounter:
1) Inform the officer you have a weapon, but don't just say, "I've a gun."

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No lawful reason to do so since the possesion of a firearm openly carried is lawful in the state of Nevada unless your a prohibited person.

insane.kangaroo said:

2) Place your hand on your stomach, tuck a thumb in your belt away from the gun, or place your hand around your neck or head.

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Typically firearms are carried on the waist "near" the stomach. Don't look now but you just advised people to do the very thing you were admonshing earlier. Putting their hands "near" the weapon.

insane.kangaroo said:

3) If you want to follow the minimal set of required orders by law even if an officer is requesting more, don't be a douche.

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Why is it that people are a "douche" when they stand up for their rights? Listening to the audio the OP seemed polite and considerate while trying to maintain his rights. While I assume some things could have been done better I think he did an excellent considering there were multiple law enforcement officers standing ready to kill him.

insane.kangaroo said:

I'm going to speak with Deputy Chief Allan again regarding the incident.

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Please don't.

I can't see why Mr. Kangaroo has taken such a vested interest that he feels he needs to contact the Deputy Chief, perhaps only to stir up more animosity.

The man complied with the law to the extent that he was required too, and nothing else. That was his right as an American. The only people who acted "douchey" were the people who violated his rights by force.

flagellum said:

I can't see why Mr. Kangaroo has taken such a vested interest that he feels he needs to contact the Deputy Chief, perhaps only to stir up more animosity.

The man complied with the law to the extent that he was required too, and nothing else. That was his right as an American. The only people who acted "douchey" were the people who violated his rights by force.

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I agree, maybe we could suggest a standing request for other posters that might want to take an active approach in another posters issue they do a private message to see if the help is wanted.

flagellum said:

I can't see why Mr. Kangaroo has taken such a vested interest that he feels he needs to contact the Deputy Chief, perhaps only to stir up more animosity.

The man complied with the law to the extent that he was required too, and nothing else. That was his right as an American. The only people who acted "douchey" were the people who violated his rights by force.

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Yep, its another good reminder of something else to think about before you make your story public. It could work either way where you have people who work to support you as well as people out there who work against you or try to tear you down. The press can be the same way but it helps to get some compassionate coverage if you are beaten, tazed and bloodied while also being a man of the cloth. I am not sure that a 2nd amendment supporter sticking up for his rights at a DUI checkpoint can expect to get favorable coverage unless he's shot down like a dog clearly for the whole world to see on tape, but you never know.

I don't see why there would be any rush to make a complaint when the police have taken some of the evidence of what has happened which might have been destroyed or made to dissapear. The victim here might want to exhaust all attempts to get that back first. Plus he has charges to concern himself with as well. I would imagine that those are of the highest priority to take care of right now.

Good luck Yard Sale. Watching and listening to your video scared the hell out of me. I am glad you weren't seriously hurt or killed during that incident.

insane.kangaroo said:

I reviews the youtube video again, I'm going to speak with Deputy Chief Allan again regarding the incident.

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Why is it that a Software Engineer, from a different state, that was not there, and is not a Lawyer that has not been retained by the person that this happned to, even getting involved in this anyway? :banghead::cuss:

john-in-reno said:

Why is it that a Software Engineer, from a different state, that was not there, and is not a Lawyer that has not been retained by the person that this happned to, even getting involved in this anyway? :banghead::cuss:

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I was wondering the same thing.

Maby Mr. Kangaroo needs to worry about cleaning up his own backyard before worring about the problems in our mountain states, after all we know that Pittsburgh, Pa. is the bastion of 2nd Amendment freedoms.

/facepalm

nomidlname said:

I am not sure why you bothered. Remember, there are two side of the story and it lies on them to prove their case. At least in theory anyways...

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. . .which is why it's worth "bothering."

The more we learn, the better we can judge. That doesn't mean that anything we've learned is accurate, but we should let them talk until we have a good picture of the real story.

DVC said:

. . .which is why it's worth "bothering."

The more we learn, the better we can judge. That doesn't mean that anything we've learned is accurate, but we should let them talk until we have a good picture of the real story.

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While I agree with you in principle, Mr. Kangaroo failed on every point he tried to make. On top of that it's hearsay at best but most likely a total fabrication of a conversation never held.

ETA:

He did make one valid point when he advised "KEEP YOUR HANDS STILL AND NOT MANEUVERING AROUND THE GUN!" but then he failed by advising everyone "2) Place your hand on your stomach, tuck a thumb in your belt away from the gun" which of course could get you killed.

Yard Sale said:

Please don't.

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I did, he changed his tune since yesterday.

You should make a report, you should clear your name, then you should launch a civil lawsuit like Pastor Anderson.

Yardsale, what were the charges against you that are still pending? Just curious. Other than the obstruction charge is there anything that can stick? Actually... dont answer that last question on the board.

And you should press charges of assault and kidnapping as well, then sue the dog sh!t out of them.