Open Carry City Hall Tour 01/09/11 Woodson Terrace 1st stop

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 3, 2011

To Whom it may concern,

I will eating lunch at Subway Sandwiches(4484 Woodson, 63134) on Sunday 1/9/11 at 11:30AM. Then going down the street to Take a picture of myself and any Open Carry-er who wishes to join me in front of the city hall/police station. This is for open carry awareness. Woodson Terrace has no laws regarding OC, but I can not guaranty my actions will be appreciated by local authorities, as well I do not claim responsibility for any unjust persecution you may receive for doing as I do.

This is the 1st of many city halls I am hoping to visit in this manner.
Doc

Superlite27 · Jan 4, 2011

I could not find any links to Woodson Terrace municipal code on Sullivan Pubs or Municode. I did locate a newsletter on the city's website written by the mayor explaining the city had contracted with Sullivan Pubs to publish their codes, but it was dated last fall. Evidently, they haven't been posted, as of yet.

Is Woodson Terrace one of the cities you have personally visited and read their ordinances? Otherwise, how have you determined the legality?

I will be driving from Peoria Sunday morning, so I hope to be in attendance. However, since I personally will not have a copy of Woodson Terrace municipal code, I would be comforted to know that at least one person in attendance might have a copy on them. Would it be possible to make a copy for me as well? It would be appreciated.

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 4, 2011

Superlite27 said:
I could not find any links to Woodson Terrace municipal code on Sullivan Pubs or Municode. I did locate a newsletter on the city's website written by the mayor explaining the city had contracted with Sullivan Pubs to publish their codes, but it was dated last fall. Evidently, they haven't been posted, as of yet.

Is Woodson Terrace one of the cities you have personally visited and read their ordinances? Otherwise, how have you determined the legality?

I will be driving from Peoria Sunday morning, so I hope to be in attendance. However, since I personally will not have a copy of Woodson Terrace municipal code, I would be comforted to know that at least one person in attendance might have a copy on them. Would it be possible to make a copy for me as well? It would be appreciated.

Yea Woodson Terrace is the city that has their ordinances hand written on parchment paper. I went in and read all their laws. The clerk asked what I was researching I told her and she had me talk to the chief of police. He told me to give him a couple of days to look in to this "Open Carry thing". Then he dodged me for 2 weeks. I went down to the PD and he said lets talk outside. So while he smoked his cigar he said "though there wasn't any ordinance's against it. If I did it it could cause a peace disturbance" I then gave the standards necessary to charge peace disturbance and told him other cities had tried these tactics and it can easily tun in to civil litigation against the city. You could see he knew I knew he was trying a "bluff tactic". I told him that I would be Open Carry-ing in his jurisdiction and I thought it would be a good idea to address his officer about it. He said that "since your 1st call I have had 2 meetings with our lawyer and have talked to all the officers and they all know about it now"

Doc

kylemoul · Jan 4, 2011

hmm...well maybe i could skip the range and show. not sure tho i paid for range time, i might as well use it!

oldbanger · Jan 4, 2011

I'll be there to support you.

Flat Stanley

cshoff · Jan 4, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
Yea Woodson Terrace is the city that has their ordinances hand written on parchment paper. I went in and read all their laws. The clerk asked what I was researching I told her and she had me talk to the chief of police. He told me to give him a couple of days to look in to this "Open Carry thing". Then he dodged me for 2 weeks. I went down to the PD and he said lets talk outside. So while he smoked his cigar he said "though there wasn't any ordinance's against it. If I did it it could cause a peace disturbance" I then gave the standards necessary to charge peace disturbance and told him other cities had tried these tactics and it can easily tun in to civil litigation against the city. You could see he knew I knew he was trying a "bluff tactic". I told him that I would be Open Carry-ing in his jurisdiction and I thought it would be a good idea to address his officer about it. He said that "since your 1st call I have had 2 meetings with our lawyer and have talked to all the officers and they all know about it now"

Doc

Be sure to say "hi" to Chief Dowling for me, Steve. He's actually a pretty good guy and I doubt you'll have any trouble with him. Good to hear that you stood your ground with him and got him to do his job.

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 5, 2011

cshoff said:
Be sure to say "hi" to Chief Dowling for me, Steve. He's actually a pretty good guy and I doubt you'll have any trouble with him. Good to hear that you stood your ground with him and got him to do his job.

He did speak to me in a respectful manner and was not condescending or overbearing. I would have to say of the 3 Chiefs of police I have conversed with he was the most like-able.

Doc

cshoff · Jan 5, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
He did speak to me in a respectful manner and was not condescending or overbearing. I would have to say of the 3 Chiefs of police I have conversed with he was the most like-able.

Doc

I've known Bob since my childhood. I grew up in Woodson Terrace. Yeah, he's actually a pretty good guy. Most of the chiefs in those small municipalities are under a lot of pressure from the "city fathers", if you will, to project a certain image. I can't imagine Bob doing anything other than actually upholding the laws as they are written.

Wish I could join you, but I've already got plans for the weekend. Would be nice to visit my old childhood haunt.

cash50 · Jan 6, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
Yea Woodson Terrace is the city that has their ordinances hand written on parchment paper. I went in and read all their laws. The clerk asked what I was researching I told her and she had me talk to the chief of police. He told me to give him a couple of days to look in to this "Open Carry thing". Then he dodged me for 2 weeks. I went down to the PD and he said lets talk outside. So while he smoked his cigar he said "though there wasn't any ordinance's against it. If I did it it could cause a peace disturbance" I then gave the standards necessary to charge peace disturbance and told him other cities had tried these tactics and it can easily tun in to civil litigation against the city. You could see he knew I knew he was trying a "bluff tactic". I told him that I would be Open Carry-ing in his jurisdiction and I thought it would be a good idea to address his officer about it. He said that "since your 1st call I have had 2 meetings with our lawyer and have talked to all the officers and they all know about it now"

Doc

Out of curiosity, where did you find the standards necessary to charge a peace disturbance around here? I'd certainly like to know.

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 6, 2011

cash50 said:
Out of curiosity, where did you find the standards necessary to charge a peace disturbance around here? I'd certainly like to know.

St Louis Co peace disturbance can be found here and remember it shall apply to the area of St. Louis County outside incorporated cities, towns and villages. http://library3.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=11512&doc_action=whatsnew

716.060 Public Disturbance of the Peace.-- It shall be unlawful to unreasonably and knowingly disturb or alarm any person by: threatening or offensive language addressed in a face-to-face manner to that individual and uttered under circumstances which are likely to produce an immediate violent response from a reasonable recipient; or by physically threatening or challenging or fighting that person.

I have read most of the regs for all the towns in St Louis Co. and St Charles Co. There are minor variations in the peace disturbance laws but none that would justify a legal arrest for OC. Feel free to look them up and read them if you like.

Doc

cshoff · Jan 6, 2011

And State peace disturbance laws are pretty much the same as well. As per RSMO 574.010:

Peace disturbance--penalty.

574.010. 1. A person commits the crime of peace disturbance if:

(1) He unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons by:

(a) Loud noise; or

(b) Offensive language addressed in a face-to-face manner to a specific individual and uttered under circumstances which are likely to produce an immediate violent response from a reasonable recipient; or

(c) Threatening to commit a felonious act against any person under circumstances which are likely to cause a reasonable person to fear that such threat may be carried out; or

(d) Fighting; or

(e) Creating a noxious and offensive odor;

(2) He is in a public place or on private property of another without consent and purposely causes inconvenience to another person or persons by unreasonably and physically obstructing:

(a) Vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or

(b) The free ingress or egress to or from a public or private place.

2. Peace disturbance is a class B misdemeanor upon the first conviction. Upon a second or subsequent conviction, peace disturbance is a class A misdemeanor. Upon a third or subsequent conviction, a person shall be sentenced to pay a fine of no less than one thousand dollars and no more than five thousand dollars.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5740000010.HTM

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 6, 2011

cshoff said:
And State peace disturbance laws are pretty much the same as well. As per RSMO 574.010:

Thanks for your help. I know you have the state codes down pat. Here's a thank you gift. I updated your profile pic.

Doc

cash50 · Jan 7, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
St Louis Co peace disturbance can be found here and remember it shall apply to the area of St. Louis County outside incorporated cities, towns and villages. http://library3.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=11512&doc_action=whatsnew

716.060 Public Disturbance of the Peace.-- It shall be unlawful to unreasonably and knowingly disturb or alarm any person by: threatening or offensive language addressed in a face-to-face manner to that individual and uttered under circumstances which are likely to produce an immediate violent response from a reasonable recipient; or by physically threatening or challenging or fighting that person.

I have read most of the regs for all the towns in St Louis Co. and St Charles Co. There are minor variations in the peace disturbance laws but none that would justify a legal arrest for OC. Feel free to look them up and read them if you like.

Doc

Oh ok. I've read these before actually, I just thought you were talking about some inside cop secret that I had no clue about.

cshoff · Jan 7, 2011

sohighlyunlikely said:
Thanks for your help. I know you have the state codes down pat.

You are welcome.

Here's a thank you gift. I updated your profile pic.

Doc

DANG! I must be an EXPERT at recoil management!

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 9, 2011

The city hall tour has started

cshoff · Jan 9, 2011

You guys don't look like you caused too much trouble while you were there.

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 9, 2011

cshoff said:
You guys don't look like you caused too much trouble while you were there.

We were in the local Subway Sandwich shop for about 45 min then down in front of the Cop Shop for another 15min. We had one LEO roll by with a complete look of confusion on his face. I don't know how he was even driving. I swear he was staring at us as he drove down the road and through the next intersection. It was right as we took this pic.

sohighlyunlikely · Jan 9, 2011

Oh yea we had three border patrol agents come through at the sub shop too. I guess we looked to American for them to give a hoot either.

mspgunner · Jan 9, 2011

Officer

Oh my goodness, they all have firearms!

kylemoul · Jan 10, 2011

oh no guns lets all call the cops

Open Carry City Hall Tour 01/09/11 Woodson Terrace 1st stop

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