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Thread: OCing with my Dad, the communist...

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    OCing with my Dad, the communist...

    So, we've talked about OCing with your kids which I do but how about introducing your, shall we say, more liberal, family members to the reality of OC? Any interesting experiences or bad advice?

    My dear old Dad is an American who has lived in Europe since 1972. He trusts those in power implicitly (here and there) and was deeply uncomfortable when I took him to the range on his last visit. He will pass a kidney or maybe burst his spleen when he sees me carrying at the airport arrival area. Suffice to say, we have an interesting relationship...



    This should be good.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    My folks know I OC most of the time, and they have no problem with me carrying in their house. I think the fact they know I'm adept and cool-headed makes them feel safer.

    Still, my mom's eyes nearly popped out of her skull when I met them at our local bank to conduct a transaction, as she didn't expect me to OC into the bank! As we sat down to dinner the next evening, I asked her what she thought was going to happen, and she said, "I don't know! I thought maybe the security guard would tell you to leave, if he didn't tackle you first!"

    It helps that I go to that bank at least once a month to cut my rent check.

    I think the best approach is to avoid OCing in a new situation while with them, one that's neither tried nor true. A string of successes will go a long way towards helping him understand that it's ok. On the other hand, you may never hear the end of things if you do something different and experience a conflict.
    Last edited by since9; 01-04-2011 at 04:44 AM.
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    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    My brother in-law is probably more conservative than he lets on (especially now, at 50), but being an egghead in a family of eggheads (and marrying an egghead-cum-treehugger), we never even broached the subject.

    Once my oldest joined the Navy 7 years back, though, I felt a change to the tide.

    His wife still had the kids semi-brainwashed into "Guns are bad, mmmkay??" but this weekend I saw a HUGE change. More than a few gun/defense/hunting related threads to the night's conversation, nearly all started by them.

    The younger son (now 15) has switched from a shocked "So-and-so had a GUUUUNN?" to now being interested in some sort of FBI/CIA/LE career.

    BIL seems to be interested in having me take the kid to the range to get familiar with shooting... I'm waiting for the look on his face when I tell him that I won't take the son, until I take him. I want him to have a common frame of reference for his son, and to allay any trepidation regarding shooting.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr H View Post
    I'm waiting for the look on his face when I tell him that I won't take the son, until I take him. I want him to have a common frame of reference for his son, and to allay any trepidation regarding shooting.
    I hadn't thought about that, but that's probably a good idea.
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    My mom is what southerns call a "Damn Yankee." (a Yankee that comes to the south and doesn't leave). A true New Yorker, she has never liked guns and doesn't even like the fact that I have one.

    She met me at the local Jason's Deli and I was carrying. She didn't notice until we got up to leave. Once she did, she made a bigger deal about it than anyone I have ever been confronted by. Funny thing is the State Trooper sitting next to me just gave me a nod when he noticed it half way through my meal. I told her, if he didn't have a problem with it neither should she.

    She still refuses to go anywhere with me if I'm carrying. Good luck breaking your dad.

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    I have no plans on breaking my Dad. He's done. The glue is fixed in his character. I won't be suprised if he calls the cops to check up on my info regarding OC.

    The odd thing is that my Mom, ex-hippy that she is, seems to have no issue with a handgun in her presence and actually enjoys shooting. People are strange. Gotta love 'em though, they're family after all!
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    The only one in my family that seems to have a problem with me carrying a gun is my sister. She knows I have a gun, but she sees no reason why I need one or why I feel the need to carry one. She has yet to see me carry my gun and considering things are tense anyway, thats not a can of worms I want to discuss. I unleashed a monster when I took my dad and little brother to the range over the summer. They go on their own and my dad is now considering investing in a handgun or two. On the chance that my dad and I will share a beer at his place, he does have me check my gun at the door -- makes sense to me as I don't carry when I might or will consume alcohol. They know I carry both openly and concealed and they have no problems with it. Educating the sister will take time.

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    Regular Member cbpeck's Avatar
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    The interactions we're discussing in this thread are the type that often require a great deal of discernment. The wrong interaction can reinforce someone's belief that guns are evil, while a positive interaction might be able to help bring that same person around to our side.

    I married my wife 3.5 years ago (not that long ago, I know). At that time, my in-laws weren't pleased to hear that I owned guns and they would not allow guns in their home (mainly my MIL). Today, my MIL & FIL each have their own handgun, a shotgun & a rifle in the home. They've also committed to spending significant time at the range to become proficient in the use of firearms. It was their decision to obtain firearms and seek training, but I like to think that my influence had a little something to do with it.

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    I've known alot of liberals who have no problem with people owning guns. My wife is what some of you would describe as a liberal and shes always been fine with our firearms and keeps her own 9mm loaded at all times.

    As far as tree hugging. Never understood what was wrong with people loving trees. I look at the oaks and pecans on my land and am in love with them myself. Everytime I drive down my long driveway I can't help but look at my oak trees and feel a sense of pride that they adorn my land. I have one that produced pounds upon pounds of hen of the woods mushrooms for us this past fall. Why do people act like loving and caring about trees is such a bad thing? If we see one are we supposed to hate it, piss on it and chop it down in order to be the right kind of person?

    I'll take a tree hugger over a tree hater anyday.

    The fight out there to me isn't about liberals vs conservatives, Democrats vs Republicans. Its about freedom and liberty vs control and the potential for tyranny. There are plenty of liberals and conservatives found on both sides of those equations. Neither has a monopoly.

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Great comment!

    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    The fight out there to me isn't about liberals vs conservatives, Democrats vs Republicans. Its about freedom and liberty vs control and the potential for tyranny. There are plenty of liberals and conservatives found on both sides of those equations. Neither has a monopoly.
    Right you are! BTW I'm not fighting with my Dad, just expecting some really interesting comments from the ol' guy. After all he is a self described 100% Capitalist Socialist which means he wants the government to pay for everything while he gets to keep all of his money. We've many a discussion on that silliness, so I suppose OC will be something new to discuss.

    I personally think the entire political industry is just a distraction. It's meant to separate us into little petty groups, kept constantly bickering over things that really shouldn't be an issue. I liken it to a high school basketball game: You have the red and blue teams, struggling over the ball while the stands are full of passionate people, often hating each other over the plays on the court. Meanwhile, while we watch the "game", the administration of the school can do whatever they want on campus since we who actually care are focused on the foolish game oblivious to their actions.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Freedom first,

    I like your simplified analogy using the basketball game. I thought along those same lines for some time now on several different levels.

    I hope you have a wonderful visit with your father.

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    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    Never understood what was wrong with people loving trees....

    I'll take a tree hugger over a tree hater anyday.

    The fight out there to me isn't about liberals vs conservatives, Democrats vs Republicans. Its about freedom and liberty vs control and the potential for tyranny. There are plenty of liberals and conservatives found on both sides of those equations. Neither has a monopoly.
    I agree... don't get me wrong.

    My comments were intended colloquially, and were intended to illustrate the change I'm seeing in that arm of the family. As they get older and [hopefully] wiser, it's becoming apparent that maybe--just maybe--they're becoming less intolerant of America's history, and more embracing of some more traditional ways.

    My apologies for not being clearer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    I've known alot of liberals who have no problem with people owning guns. My wife is what some of you would describe as a liberal and shes always been fine with our firearms and keeps her own 9mm loaded at all times.

    As far as tree hugging. Never understood what was wrong with people loving trees. I look at the oaks and pecans on my land and am in love with them myself. Everytime I drive down my long driveway I can't help but look at my oak trees and feel a sense of pride that they adorn my land. I have one that produced pounds upon pounds of hen of the woods mushrooms for us this past fall. Why do people act like loving and caring about trees is such a bad thing? If we see one are we supposed to hate it, piss on it and chop it down in order to be the right kind of person?

    I'll take a tree hugger over a tree hater anyday.

    The fight out there to me isn't about liberals vs conservatives, Democrats vs Republicans. Its about freedom and liberty vs control and the potential for tyranny. There are plenty of liberals and conservatives found on both sides of those equations. Neither has a monopoly.
    I love trees. My wife despises some of the nasty things they do to our yard. I think the effort of cleaning the four plagues that the trees rain down on the pool to be well worth the shade and beauty of the trees.

    That being said, I HATE it when folks value trees over people.

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I love trees. My wife despises some of the nasty things they do to our yard. I think the effort of cleaning the four plagues that the trees rain down on the pool to be well worth the shade and beauty of the trees.

    That being said, I HATE it when folks value trees over people.
    That is a very sensible attitude.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    ...but without trees, there wouldn't be people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    That is a very sensible attitude.
    +1 ,and that's what is wrong with some of the tree-huggers. That being said I have a somewhat similar situation. Both of my sisters hate weapons. My brother and I talk about them for hours, and are both CC licensed. He lives in Florida, where of course they cannot OC yet. My oldest sister was mugged, they both live in St Louis area. I don't know how many discussions I and my brother have had with both of our sisters about the wisdom of self defense. They just don't get it. They never will. But, of course they both voted for Obama too. So I guess that explains it.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Some great insight here......

    That being said, I really haven't had many interactions with family about open or concealed carry.
    They all know I own and carry firearms and seem ok with it.
    I did have one comment I made to my Mother earlier in the summer. The Wife and I had just returned from Rocky Mountain National Park where I was open carrying my trusty H&K. I had taken the Serpa holster off my belt for comfort during the drive home. We decided to stop in and say hi, so I just grabbed the holster and we walked in.
    I set the holster on the window sill in the dining room, and her comment was something like "what's with the pistol here?" I just stated that I didn't want to leave it unattended in the car and it wasn't going to jump off the window sill and do anything....

    I have gotten the household (Wife and 2 over 18yo kids) accustomed to having firearms readily available.....as I eat my late breakfast, there's a 1911 sitting next to me and my H&K is on my nightstand upstairs. No issues.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    So, we've talked about OCing with your kids which I do but how about introducing your, shall we say, more liberal, family members to the reality of OC? Any interesting experiences or bad advice?

    My dear old Dad is an American who has lived in Europe since 1972. He trusts those in power implicitly (here and there) and was deeply uncomfortable when I took him to the range on his last visit. He will pass a kidney or maybe burst his spleen when he sees me carrying at the airport arrival area. Suffice to say, we have an interesting relationship...



    This should be good.
    This book was written for people like your dad. For kids and adults it goes over many of the OC arguments as well as discussing the 2A and the right to self defense.
    www.myparentsopencarry.com
    Last edited by Venator; 01-16-2011 at 01:16 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    ...but without trees, there wouldn't be people.
    Solyent green is people!

    No, the term "tree-hugger" not refer to people who enjoy the beauty and presence of trees. Rather, it's a derrogatory term used to refer to people who would defend any and all cutting down of lumber, for any reason, and who abhored clear-cutting, even if done on a small scale. Some would drive spikes into lumber trees just to break the saws. Others would chain themselves to equipment and create other problems, some quite dangerous.

    Most of them have gone away, as stats came out about the fact that we have more new-growth lumber in the U.S. today than we did in 1950. It's a renewable resource, and they're learning, so it's no-where near the issue it used to be.

    I agree we should protect the old-growth forests, but new-growth forests have been as managed and renewable a resource in our country as Iowa wheat.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    I've known alot of liberals who have no problem with people owning guns. My wife is what some of you would describe as a liberal and shes always been fine with our firearms and keeps her own 9mm loaded at all times.

    As far as tree hugging. Never understood what was wrong with people loving trees. I look at the oaks and pecans on my land and am in love with them myself. Everytime I drive down my long driveway I can't help but look at my oak trees and feel a sense of pride that they adorn my land. I have one that produced pounds upon pounds of hen of the woods mushrooms for us this past fall. Why do people act like loving and caring about trees is such a bad thing? If we see one are we supposed to hate it, piss on it and chop it down in order to be the right kind of person?

    I'll take a tree hugger over a tree hater anyday.

    The fight out there to me isn't about liberals vs conservatives, Democrats vs Republicans. Its about freedom and liberty vs control and the potential for tyranny. There are plenty of liberals and conservatives found on both sides of those equations. Neither has a monopoly.
    Amen. The bolded part more so.

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Some followup...

    Well, Dad's been here for a couple of weeks now and while he isn't thrilled with guns in his surroundings, he's coping. We've had some good discussions about firearm safety, he went along and watched as my 7 and 8 year old kids had a ball at the local plinking range.

    Since I always have a firearm within reach and I OC/CC everywhere he is seeing an entirely different world from his happy little socialist utopia there in Germany. I have been hoping for an OC dinner while he's here but I am not sure that's coming.

    We've talked about gun control at length and possible other explanations for it in this world (govt control of an unarmed populace, etc.) and other fun subjects. He'll be here for three more weeks...
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    Well, Dad's been here for a couple of weeks now and while he isn't thrilled with guns in his surroundings, he's coping. We've had some good discussions about firearm safety, he went along and watched as my 7 and 8 year old kids had a ball at the local plinking range.

    Since I always have a firearm within reach and I OC/CC everywhere he is seeing an entirely different world from his happy little socialist utopia there in Germany. I have been hoping for an OC dinner while he's here but I am not sure that's coming.

    We've talked about gun control at length and possible other explanations for it in this world (govt control of an unarmed populace, etc.) and other fun subjects. He'll be here for three more weeks...
    Good to hear I have had a few anti friends change their mind by simply OCing, once they get over the fact that exposure wont kill them they are kinda forced to deal with the realities of it.

    If you can't get a dinner, try a coffee meet up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    The fight out there to me isn't about liberals vs conservatives, Democrats vs Republicans. Its about freedom and liberty vs control and the potential for tyranny. There are plenty of liberals and conservatives found on both sides of those equations. Neither has a monopoly.
    I agree. I know plenty of self described liberals (my sister) who is ok with firearms. I know self described conservatives (my father) who opposes belive that Full Auto's are banned and should be. I guess I've never seen it either as a democrat/republican/liberal/conservative but more an indivdual issue. While I rarely OC (unless going to the range to practice cowboy action) and prefer CC I agree with the right to OC and support those that do. I can't see myself OCing most of the time but to each their own.

    As to the OP's question about OCing around people that are against it I can not offer advice. However, concerning people that are anti firearm or anti certain firearms I have this discussion concerning FA and suppressors with my father many times. He doesn't agree with them at all where I do. I had to even point out that they are legal so long as someone has all the NFA paperwork in order.

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    My sister and boyfriend have different views along the same lines though. My sisters BF thinks there is no reason to carry 24/7 but is not against it or anything. My sister is against it period.she sees no reason why I need one or why I feel the need to carry one and if something were to happen like someone robbing me its gonna happen a certain way whether I have it or not . She one of those people who would bring up an instance where a gun couldn't have saved the person assuming thats how all encounters with bad people go. My mom is funny she always says you better no have bullets in that thing when she sees me with it lol . But she doesn't say anything about me carrying it. My dad doesnt say anything about me carrying it but like my sister and her boyfriend they think by carrying all the time that I am constantly walking around in fear that something bad will happen to me.

    I agree there are both parties on both sides of guns rights anti or not. But at least where I'm from mostly Democrats and liberals want to restrict/ban weapons and say thats what the police are for and the chances of anything happening are so small. And there are some who would say they dont want to ban guns but they would make restrictions and the process of buying so difficult that a lot of people say its not worth the time and all the extra costs. If they cant ban it they'll restrict it to death that way they can look like there not anti gun.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry1981 View Post
    My sister and boyfriend have different views along the same lines though. My sisters BF thinks there is no reason to carry 24/7 but is not against it or anything. My sister is against it period.she sees no reason why I need one or why I feel the need to carry one and if something were to happen like someone robbing me its gonna happen a certain way whether I have it or not . She one of those people who would bring up an instance where a gun couldn't have saved the person assuming thats how all encounters with bad people go.
    Every time someone in town is shot and killed, I print the article to a pdf file and store it in a file on my hard drive entitled, "Why I carry a firearm." Since I starting doing this a little over a year ago, I've accumulated just over 20 such articles. About 80% of the incidents, if I'd been the intended victim, I'm quite certain I'd never have become a victim. I'm far less certain about the other 20% of the incidents.

    My mom is funny she always says you better no have bullets in that thing when she sees me with it lol . But she doesn't say anything about me carrying it.
    Lol, my Mom prefers that I not wear it at the dinner table! Other times, she's cool with it, and having eaten out a few times and shopped at Wal-Mart with me, she knows from first-hand experience that people's reactions are not an issue.

    My dad doesnt say anything about me carrying it but like my sister and her boyfriend they think by carrying all the time that I am constantly walking around in fear that something bad will happen to me. I agree there are both parties on both sides of guns rights anti or not. But at least where I'm from mostly Democrats and liberals want to restrict/ban weapons and say thats what the police are for and the chances of anything happening are so small.
    I given the crime stats around here, I calculated that I stand a 50% chance of having to use it once every 18,343 days. That's about 50 years. That doesn't take into consideration the fact I usually OC, so I think that timeline is a little low. Let's hope it's never.

    So, are the chances slight? Absolutely. Are they nonexistant? Absolutely not! About once every five years some knucklehead plows into my car. Thus, the liklihood of my having an accident on any given day is just 1 out of 1,825, or 0.05% (five one-hundredths of one percent).

    Despite this very low percent, I still put on my seat belt each and every time I get behind the wheel!

    And there are some who would say they dont want to ban guns but they would make restrictions and the process of buying so difficult that a lot of people say its not worth the time and all the extra costs. If they cant ban it they'll restrict it to death that way they can look like there not anti gun.
    That's their goal. People like Hillary and Obama know there's no way they'd ever successfully repeal the Second Amendment, so they instead enacted legislation over the years. When SCOTUS ruled that 2A is an individual right, they undermined a good portion of the legislation of the few holdout states.

    So, in response, Hillary and Obama are supporting the UN's handgun ban treaty. If the Senate ever ratifies the resulting treaty with the required 2/3 vote, that will have effectively nullified the Second Amendment, for ratified international treaties carry the same weight as our own Constitution.

    The scary thing is that our President can sign an "executive agreement," and presidents have done so about 10 times the rate of Senate ratification. That wouldn't carry enough weight to override the Second Amendment, but it would sure put our rights in harm's way.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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