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OCing with my Dad, the communist...

Freedom First

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Some followup...

Well, Dad's been here for a couple of weeks now and while he isn't thrilled with guns in his surroundings, he's coping. We've had some good discussions about firearm safety, he went along and watched as my 7 and 8 year old kids had a ball at the local plinking range.

Since I always have a firearm within reach and I OC/CC everywhere he is seeing an entirely different world from his happy little socialist utopia there in Germany. I have been hoping for an OC dinner while he's here but I am not sure that's coming.

We've talked about gun control at length and possible other explanations for it in this world (govt control of an unarmed populace, etc.) and other fun subjects. He'll be here for three more weeks...
 

sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
Well, Dad's been here for a couple of weeks now and while he isn't thrilled with guns in his surroundings, he's coping. We've had some good discussions about firearm safety, he went along and watched as my 7 and 8 year old kids had a ball at the local plinking range.

Since I always have a firearm within reach and I OC/CC everywhere he is seeing an entirely different world from his happy little socialist utopia there in Germany. I have been hoping for an OC dinner while he's here but I am not sure that's coming.

We've talked about gun control at length and possible other explanations for it in this world (govt control of an unarmed populace, etc.) and other fun subjects. He'll be here for three more weeks...

Good to hear I have had a few anti friends change their mind by simply OCing, once they get over the fact that exposure wont kill them they are kinda forced to deal with the realities of it.

If you can't get a dinner, try a coffee meet up.
 

wyecoyote

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Dec 27, 2010
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Tacoma, WA
The fight out there to me isn't about liberals vs conservatives, Democrats vs Republicans. Its about freedom and liberty vs control and the potential for tyranny. There are plenty of liberals and conservatives found on both sides of those equations. Neither has a monopoly.

I agree. I know plenty of self described liberals (my sister) who is ok with firearms. I know self described conservatives (my father) who opposes belive that Full Auto's are banned and should be. I guess I've never seen it either as a democrat/republican/liberal/conservative but more an indivdual issue. While I rarely OC (unless going to the range to practice cowboy action) and prefer CC I agree with the right to OC and support those that do. I can't see myself OCing most of the time but to each their own.

As to the OP's question about OCing around people that are against it I can not offer advice. However, concerning people that are anti firearm or anti certain firearms I have this discussion concerning FA and suppressors with my father many times. He doesn't agree with them at all where I do. I had to even point out that they are legal so long as someone has all the NFA paperwork in order.
 

Jerry1981

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Feb 2, 2010
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Charlotte, North Carolina, , USA
My sister and boyfriend have different views along the same lines though. My sisters BF thinks there is no reason to carry 24/7 but is not against it or anything. My sister is against it period.she sees no reason why I need one or why I feel the need to carry one and if something were to happen like someone robbing me its gonna happen a certain way whether I have it or not . She one of those people who would bring up an instance where a gun couldn't have saved the person assuming thats how all encounters with bad people go. My mom is funny she always says you better no have bullets in that thing when she sees me with it lol . But she doesn't say anything about me carrying it. My dad doesnt say anything about me carrying it but like my sister and her boyfriend they think by carrying all the time that I am constantly walking around in fear that something bad will happen to me.

I agree there are both parties on both sides of guns rights anti or not. But at least where I'm from mostly Democrats and liberals want to restrict/ban weapons and say thats what the police are for and the chances of anything happening are so small. And there are some who would say they dont want to ban guns but they would make restrictions and the process of buying so difficult that a lot of people say its not worth the time and all the extra costs. If they cant ban it they'll restrict it to death that way they can look like there not anti gun.
 

since9

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My sister and boyfriend have different views along the same lines though. My sisters BF thinks there is no reason to carry 24/7 but is not against it or anything. My sister is against it period.she sees no reason why I need one or why I feel the need to carry one and if something were to happen like someone robbing me its gonna happen a certain way whether I have it or not . She one of those people who would bring up an instance where a gun couldn't have saved the person assuming thats how all encounters with bad people go.

Every time someone in town is shot and killed, I print the article to a pdf file and store it in a file on my hard drive entitled, "Why I carry a firearm." Since I starting doing this a little over a year ago, I've accumulated just over 20 such articles. About 80% of the incidents, if I'd been the intended victim, I'm quite certain I'd never have become a victim. I'm far less certain about the other 20% of the incidents.

My mom is funny she always says you better no have bullets in that thing when she sees me with it lol . But she doesn't say anything about me carrying it.

Lol, my Mom prefers that I not wear it at the dinner table! Other times, she's cool with it, and having eaten out a few times and shopped at Wal-Mart with me, she knows from first-hand experience that people's reactions are not an issue.

My dad doesnt say anything about me carrying it but like my sister and her boyfriend they think by carrying all the time that I am constantly walking around in fear that something bad will happen to me. I agree there are both parties on both sides of guns rights anti or not. But at least where I'm from mostly Democrats and liberals want to restrict/ban weapons and say thats what the police are for and the chances of anything happening are so small.

I given the crime stats around here, I calculated that I stand a 50% chance of having to use it once every 18,343 days. That's about 50 years. That doesn't take into consideration the fact I usually OC, so I think that timeline is a little low. Let's hope it's never.

So, are the chances slight? Absolutely. Are they nonexistant? Absolutely not! About once every five years some knucklehead plows into my car. Thus, the liklihood of my having an accident on any given day is just 1 out of 1,825, or 0.05% (five one-hundredths of one percent).

Despite this very low percent, I still put on my seat belt each and every time I get behind the wheel!

And there are some who would say they dont want to ban guns but they would make restrictions and the process of buying so difficult that a lot of people say its not worth the time and all the extra costs. If they cant ban it they'll restrict it to death that way they can look like there not anti gun.

That's their goal. People like Hillary and Obama know there's no way they'd ever successfully repeal the Second Amendment, so they instead enacted legislation over the years. When SCOTUS ruled that 2A is an individual right, they undermined a good portion of the legislation of the few holdout states.

So, in response, Hillary and Obama are supporting the UN's handgun ban treaty. If the Senate ever ratifies the resulting treaty with the required 2/3 vote, that will have effectively nullified the Second Amendment, for ratified international treaties carry the same weight as our own Constitution.

The scary thing is that our President can sign an "executive agreement," and presidents have done so about 10 times the rate of Senate ratification. That wouldn't carry enough weight to override the Second Amendment, but it would sure put our rights in harm's way.
 

Freedom First

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7 Days to go...

Well, it's been a nice visit. Guns and all.

I think his view on firearms has been changed a bit though I doubt he'll be running back to Europe and signing on with the gun lobby there. We have talked through my reasoning on carrying 24/7 and he understands. We've talked about crime in my town and the need to make sure I get home every day to my wonderful family, regardless of the bad guys thoughts on the subject.

Heck, even my 8 year old son is in on it. He had Dad in the back yard and almost got him to shoot his pellet gun... Maybe next time, buddy.

He still doesn't agree on my views on too much government and the evil of central banking but hey, one issue at a time...
 

utbob2004

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Jun 16, 2010
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Near Memphis
I am fortunate to come from a very firearm-friendly family. Both my mother and father have carry permits, I have 1 sister in LE, and the other sister's husband carries all the time as well. My best friend and I took our carry permit and armed guard classes together. We carried around his mom and step-dad so much that they now have their carry permits. My girlfriend, however, is a different story. I FINALLY got her to go to the range for couples night here in Memphis about 3 months ago. She had the gun in her hand the safety off and ready to fire but she just couldn't do it. She came from a bad area in Memphis were she has only seen LE and BG with what she calls "small guns". She loves to go skeet shooting with me but I just cant get her to take up pistol shooting. I open carry with her a lot but she is NOT a big fan of it, but at least she doesn't mind me concealing it when we go out. I have guns all over the house that she has finally gotten comfortable around so hopefully she'll come around to the idea.
 

WhatTimeIsIt?

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So, in response, Hillary and Obama are supporting the UN's handgun ban treaty. If the Senate ever ratifies the resulting treaty with the required 2/3 vote, that will have effectively nullified the Second Amendment, for ratified international treaties carry the same weight as our own Constitution.

That's actually incorrect. Some treaties are considered "self-executing" and are law all on their own, while others are not and need Congress to pass a separate law to enforce them. However, in either case the treaty is not given the same weight as the Constitution. Self-executing treaties are given the same legal weight as federal laws, not the US Constitution. The President and Senate cannot do something that is prohibited by the Constitution just because another country agreed to do it as well. Look at Article 6, in order for treaties to be part of the supreme law of the land, they have to be made "under the authority of the United States". Surely the authority of the United States does not extend to violating the Constitution.
This of course does not mean there is no reason to fear international gun ban treaties. As we all know, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. But the Constitution remains the highest law in the land.
 

eye95

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That's actually incorrect. Some treaties are considered "self-executing" and are law all on their own, while others are not and need Congress to pass a separate law to enforce them. However, in either case the treaty is not given the same weight as the Constitution. Self-executing treaties are given the same legal weight as federal laws, not the US Constitution. The President and Senate cannot do something that is prohibited by the Constitution just because another country agreed to do it as well. Look at Article 6, in order for treaties to be part of the supreme law of the land, they have to be made "under the authority of the United States". Surely the authority of the United States does not extend to violating the Constitution.
This of course does not mean there is no reason to fear international gun ban treaties. As we all know, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. But the Constitution remains the highest law in the land.

The Supreme Court has ruled in a way that agrees with what you say here.
 

Freedom First

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Just a couple to go.

Well, he's getting his brain ready for heading back to the old world. Here's a funny note, on Monday my In-Laws showed up for a visit and my conservative republican MIL asked with concern in her eyes, "Do you always carry in the house?!?" To which I answered with a smile, "My gun safe is on my hip..." She's good now.
 

since9

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That's actually incorrect ... Look at Article 6...

Nope. Please review Treaty Clause and Foreign Policy of the United States, including the 104 references from the two entries.

This of course does not mean there is no reason to fear international gun ban treaties. As we all know, the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. But the Constitution remains the highest law in the land.

That's my point: It's the Constitution itself which grants the President and/or the Senate, depending on the type of treaty, the authority to ratify treaties. Hillary knows it, the United Nations knows it, and that's their current avenue of approach to "rid the world of the scourage of firearms."

Well, he's getting his brain ready for heading back to the old world. Here's a funny note, on Monday my In-Laws showed up for a visit and my conservative republican MIL asked with concern in her eyes, "Do you always carry in the house?!?" To which I answered with a smile, "My gun safe is on my hip..." She's good now.

I'll have to remember that the next time my brother visits my folks. He was vexed every time I stopped by while OCing and finally said, "I don't like you carrying a gun around my son." At one point I told him, "I'm as much of a guest of my parents as you are. If you don't like it, you can leave."

He then replied his main concern was that he didn't want his son to see anyone actually wearing a firearm... :banghead:
 
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WhatTimeIsIt?

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Your sources only confirm what I was saying. Treaties are treated like federal law, not equal to the Constitution.

"American law is that international accords become part of the body of U.S. federal law.[1] As a result, Congress can modify or repeal treaties by subsequent legislative action, even if this amounts to a violation of the treaty under international law"

"Additionally, an international accord that is inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution is void under domestic U.S. law, the same as any other federal law in conflict with the Constitution. This principle was most clearly established in the case of Reid v. Covert.[8]"
 
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Freedom First

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Well, he's gone.

We had a great visit and he's now visiting Florida. I carried every moment he was here and we had several conversations about firearms, Rights and carry. He's going to check up on the law in the Czech Republic when he gets home. Should be an interesting email...

Reading this thread makes me laugh. I am always amazed at the straying of threads. It reminds me of that game where you all line up and whisper something in the next person's ear which he passes on down the line... Hope you guys are having fun.:p
 

marshaul

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He's going to check up on the law in the Czech Republic when he gets home.

The law in the Czech Republic is great! (For Europe).

After getting a license to purchase (which is essentially shall-issue, a formality), one may buy a variety of handguns, and I suspect CZ's guns are especially popular. :)

That doesn't sound great, but the cool part is, anyone who can legally own, can legally carry concealed!

That part is better than most US states. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_Czech_Republic

Gun politics in the Czech Republic incorporates the political and regulatory aspects of firearms usage in the country. Policy in the Czech Republic is in many respects less restrictive than elsewhere in Europe (see Gun politics in the European Union). The most recent Gun Act was passed in 2001, replacing the previous law and tightening the legislation slightly. Firearms in the Czech Republic are available to anybody without a criminal record and aged above 18 (or 21 for certain license categories). Self-defense is an acceptable justification to obtain a firearms license. The Czech gun laws also permits a citizen to carry a concealed weapon without having to specify a reason.
 

since9

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"American law is that international accords become part of the body of U.S. federal law.[1] As a result, Congress can modify or repeal treaties by subsequent legislative action, even if this amounts to a violation of the treaty under international law"

"Can" does not imply they will.

"Additionally, an international accord that is inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution is void under domestic U.S. law, the same as any other federal law in conflict with the Constitution. This principle was most clearly established in the case of Reid v. Covert.[8]"

Reid v. Covert took two years before it was decided. Many such cases take longer.

My principle concern is that in the face of international pressure, a Presidential push, and more pressure from the Secretary of State, a predominantly left-wing Senate could be compelled to make a serious error in judgement which would then become an uphill battle to correct.

My concern is valid.
 

Freedom First

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The law in the Czech Republic is great! (For Europe).

After getting a license to purchase (which is essentially shall-issue, a formality), one may buy a variety of handguns, and I suspect CZ's guns are especially popular. :)

That doesn't sound great, but the cool part is, anyone who can legally own, can legally carry concealed!

That part is better than most US states. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_Czech_Republic

Hey thanks Marshaul! Gotta love the Wiki.

One of Dad's favorite parts of living there, especially with the EU in effect, is the ability to use his "free" healthcare anywhere in the EU. I wonder about reciprocity regarding firearms? Doubtful.
 

irish52084

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Good to hear that the Czechs have decent gun laws. Not perfect, but much better than most of Europe. Plus, it would be a shame if they couldn't or it was difficult to own samples of some of the finest gun made in the world. Talking of course of the CZ made firearms. They make some really nice pistols and some of the best rifles in the world. If you can't tell, I'm a bit of a CZ fan.;)
 

karlmc10

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Gaylord, Michigan, USA
I've been watching this thread with some interest as I lived in Germany for 15 years and know the mentality that is pervasive there. I must say "Good for You" to the OP's Dad. Here's why- He doesn't like the way things are here better than the way things are elsewhere so he moved to where he likes it. You might not like his big govt. thinking but you have to admire the fact that he's not trying to change this country, he goes to where he likes it. You can't argue with that. He did exactly what I wish so many in govt. and elsewhere would do.
 

Freedom First

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I've been watching this thread with some interest as I lived in Germany for 15 years and know the mentality that is pervasive there. I must say "Good for You" to the OP's Dad. Here's why- He doesn't like the way things are here better than the way things are elsewhere so he moved to where he likes it. You might not like his big govt. thinking but you have to admire the fact that he's not trying to change this country, he goes to where he likes it. You can't argue with that. He did exactly what I wish so many in govt. and elsewhere would do.

He's still a registered voter here so he's been known to cancel my votes...:banghead:
 
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