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Thread: Is Open Carrying in Walmart, target, and other liquor selling buisness's illegal?

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    Is Open Carrying in Walmart, target, and other liquor selling buisness's illegal?

    is it illegal to open carry in walmrt and other liquor selling buisness's without a cpl? and is a pistol being transported in a locked glove box and unloaded considered out of access? im kind of new to this whole thing thx.

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillanjessie View Post
    is it illegal to open carry in walmrt and other liquor selling buisness's without a cpl? and is a pistol being transported in a locked glove box and unloaded considered out of access? im kind of new to this whole thing thx.
    Without a CPL you can not OC in any busniess with a liquor licence.

    You can not have a gun inside of your passenger conpartment ( glove box is concidered CC ) without a CPL.

    Here are some things to help you on your learing journey. O and Welcom to OC

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(mkt...me=mcl-28-425o

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(2fc...e=mcl-750-234d
    Last edited by quarter horseman; 01-04-2011 at 12:16 PM.

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    ???????????

    ok but what if have walmarts permission, and how are you supposed to transport a pistol without a cpl,( i have a truck)= no trunk

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    Read the laws carefully before you OC or transport without a CPL.

    According to the MSP legal update #86, http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...36854_7.pdfyou can only transport for a "lawful purpose". There has been much debate on this. Lawful purposes can be found in MCL 750.231a. : http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-750-231a You cannot be on the premises of any place that has a liquor license of any kind, regardless of whether they sell alcohol or not. http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-750-234d Look up the liquor licenses here : http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/llist/ You can look up laws and bills here : http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...aspx?page=home

    Read the stickies.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 01-04-2011 at 12:38 PM.

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    If the vehicle has no trunk, you may keep the gun in a case designed for a gun, in a location that is inaccessible to the driver, or as far away from you as physically possible. The case does not have to be locked, but a lock will add one step to the process, and will give you some wiggle room if you have to defend yourself against these infringements. As long as the gun is unavailable to you for self defense against those who don't follow laws, and wish to do you harm, thus giving them the advantage and endangering your life and the lives of your loved ones, you should be good to go.

    ETA, get a CPL, and push the issue of constitutional carry.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 01-04-2011 at 12:43 PM.

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    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillanjessie View Post
    ok but what if have walmarts permission, and how are you supposed to transport a pistol without a cpl,( i have a truck)= no trunk
    I one am not a lawyer so what I say look upi your self please but am here to help as much as possible.

    If you have permission I would have to say in writing from the manager it is ok to keep it simple. look here to find law

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(0ah...l-750-234d.pdf

    transporting in a truck it has to be seperate from ammo and in a closed container out of reach this can be found here.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(05c...l-750-231a.pdf
    Last edited by quarter horseman; 01-04-2011 at 12:45 PM. Reason: change from locked to closed good catch 1911

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    Welcome

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    A property owner can give you permission (yes, in writing) to OC only, NOT to conceal. AS soon as you ask if you can carry a gun in their store, you will be looking for a new store.

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    ??

    would a locked tool box in the bed be "INACCESSABLE" or is there some b.s. law for that to?

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    There is a BS law about this as well The gun must be in a case designed for a gun. You have to read the laws carefully, they like to stick things in there like that, and single words, or commas. It depends on what the definition of is is.

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    ?

    well i ment in a case locked and in the locked tool box? or am i still in the wrong?

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    Sure, you can do that. There is a learning curve, but you can do it. Thousands do.

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Read MCL 750.234d. Also note you can not have any firearm on the premises of a place licensed to sell alcohol. This includes stored in your vehicle. Any permission granted have in writing to CYA.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    AS soon as you ask if you can carry a gun in their store, you will be looking for a new store.
    With owners/managers you are unsure about, try to think creatively about your approach. When it's less of a "question" and more of a mere "confirmation", incident to doing business with them, owners/managers may be more inclined to just "go with the flow". Example (the scenario is you are on the phone, because usually if you are asking permission beforehand it means you can't step foot on the property without it):

    (Record the phone conversation. Yes, it is legal to do so in Michigan without informing the other party as long as you are a party to the conversation.)

    Just the direct question:

    You: "May I carry my gun in your business?"

    Owner/Manager: "No." (The usual response by an unsure person to an "unusual" question they've probably never had to answer before.)



    Perhaps a more successful approach:

    You: "Hi, this is Dan M. [be sure to state your name] . . . [Discuss what you're looking for, if their business provides it, they have something in stock, prices, etc. . . . establish in their mind that you are a potential customer.]

    Owner/Manager: [Discusses with you what you are looking for.]

    You: Great! I think you have EXACTLY what I'm looking for. [If possible and appropriate, get them to hold an item for you, make an appointment for you, or whatever other thing can cause a psychological commitment in their mind to accepting you in their business.]

    Owner/Manager: Glad you called. Sure we'll [hold that item in stock, make an appointment, etc.] for you!

    You: Oh, by the way, I carry a gun in accordance with the law and all the businesses I frequent are OK with lawful carry. Since you happen to have a liquor license, I technically have to ask your permission to carry on your property. Are you OK with that while I [insert the business you are potentially going to do with them]?

    Owner/Manager: Sure, I'm fine with that.


    I think the second approach is more probable to be successful, since you've set up in the owner/manager's mind that you are a customer wanting to do business, other businesses don't have a problem with your carry, and the permission to carry is just a mere technicality in the law, which is what it really is. Most people just "go with the flow", and sometimes it is helpful to psychologically guide folks into the "flow".
    Last edited by DanM; 01-04-2011 at 04:48 PM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    that seems like some solid reasoning dan. i like your idea.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post

    (Record the phone conversation. Yes, it is legal to do so in Michigan without informing the other party as long as you are a party to the conversation.)
    Please cite applicable Michigan law(s) that state recording a phone conversation is legal as long as you are a party to that conversation. I'd like to see them please.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    As you wish my friend:Excerpt;

    Michigan Wiretapping Law
    Michigan law makes it a crime to "use[] any device to eavesdrop upon [a] conversation without the consent of all parties." Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539c. This looks like an "all party consent" law, but one Michigan Court has ruled that a participant in a private conversation may record it without violating the statute because the statutory term "eavesdrop" refers only to overhearing or recording the private conversations of others. See Sullivan v. Gray, 342 N.W. 2d 58, 60-61 (Mich. Ct. App. 1982).

    Bold my emphasis...

    This has been discussed at length before. Surprised you missed it.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    As you wish my friend:Excerpt;

    Michigan Wiretapping Law
    Michigan law makes it a crime to "use[] any device to eavesdrop upon [a] conversation without the consent of all parties." Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539c. This looks like an "all party consent" law, but one Michigan Court has ruled that a participant in a private conversation may record it without violating the statute because the statutory term "eavesdrop" refers only to overhearing or recording the private conversations of others. See Sullivan v. Gray, 342 N.W. 2d 58, 60-61 (Mich. Ct. App. 1982).

    Bold my emphasis...

    This has been discussed at length before. Surprised you missed it.
    Thank you my friend! Good info to have.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  19. #19
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    As you wish my friend:Excerpt;

    Michigan Wiretapping Law
    Michigan law makes it a crime to "use[] any device to eavesdrop upon [a] conversation without the consent of all parties." Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539c. This looks like an "all party consent" law, but one Michigan Court has ruled that a participant in a private conversation may record it without violating the statute because the statutory term "eavesdrop" refers only to overhearing or recording the private conversations of others. See Sullivan v. Gray, 342 N.W. 2d 58, 60-61 (Mich. Ct. App. 1982).

    Bold my emphasis...

    This has been discussed at length before. Surprised you missed it.
    Thanks, Jerry, and good discussion of it here in the Michigan Bar Journal of October 2008:
    http://www.michbar.org/journal/pdf/pdf4article1421.pdf
    Last edited by DanM; 01-04-2011 at 07:39 PM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    Read MCL 750.234d. Also note you can not have any firearm on the premises of a place licensed to sell alcohol. This includes stored in your vehicle. Any permission granted have in writing to CYA.
    Unless you work there or own the place.
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