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Thread: Armed father refuses to be a victim

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Armed father refuses to be a victim

    Armed father fights back against driveway robbers

    HOUSTON (KTRK) -- A local family was terrorized, ambushed outside their own home and held at gunpoint. They had just pulled into their driveway on Glenfield near Durango Falls in northwest Harris County Monday night when the suspects threatened the family, and the husband fought back.

    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=7877690
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I am glad he and his family are ok, if he was open carrying i am sure the bad guys would not have followed.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    I am glad he and his family are ok, if he was open carrying i am sure the bad guys would not have followed.
    That is the point that many in Texas fail to understand - it is the peak of passive self-defense.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Everybody in Texas should know that there is a chance that an adult is CCing. Just as everybody should know that the mere presence of a firearm, CCd or OC'd, will have little actual impact on the decision of a bad person to do bad things. It is the combination of many factors (the probable/actual presence of a firearm, the demeanor of being a "non-victim", the determination to prevent family/loved ones from being made into victims) in the face of one other factor (the determination to commit a crime regardless of the odds) that resulted in the outcome we read of rather than another story of a family robbed and possible injured/killed.

    I'm just trying to remind folks that there is no magic aura that comes off your gun that will, all by itself, protect you from harm.

    Fortunately in this case another bad person made a poor selection of their intended victim.

    stay safe.

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    I like the homeowner's final words about defending is family: "I'm glad I did. *pointing to the off-camera reporter* You should too."

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is the point that many in Texas fail to understand - it is the peak of passive self-defense.
    Absolutely! When deterrence works, it means the only additional things I need to do is to carry it home while remaining vigilent at all times.

    Unfortunately, OC'd deterrence only works if they seen your OC'd firearm.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm just trying to remind folks that there is no magic aura that comes off your gun that will, all by itself, protect you from harm.
    You are correct. The thing most people will see first is whether or not you're alert and aware of your surroundings. I think that's something BG's see more often, particularly from a distance.[/quote]
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    but at the same time maybe the thugs would have noticed the gun and instead of committing a robbery, maybe they would have just murdered him out right

    if the guy had just bought 2 laptops, 2 ipads and 2 iphones or something, who knows if that would or wouldnt be enough for them to take the risk of being caught for murder... a gun showing could just be another attractive item for them to steal.

    then again if they followed them from the store they might just decide to pick another target after seeing a gun
    Yes indeed. Could have, might have, maybe would have. Understand that someone will likely preemptively take out an OCer someday, but until that happens let's stop suggesting that carrying a handgun openly is such a dangerous practice. What are the odds -1 out of 1,000,000,000? You have a better chance of winning the lottery....twice.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    but at the same time maybe the thugs would have noticed the gun and instead of committing a robbery, maybe they would have just murdered him out right

    if the guy had just bought 2 laptops, 2 ipads and 2 iphones or something, who knows if that would or wouldnt be enough for them to take the risk of being caught for murder... a gun showing could just be another attractive item for them to steal.

    then again if they followed them from the store they might just decide to pick another target after seeing a gun
    I'd much rather have the story read "Man shoots two robbery perpetrators protecting his family, yet succumbs to his wounds" Then "Victims of murder-robbery found on lawn" Give me a break! read my quote
    Last edited by KansasMustang; 01-08-2011 at 06:45 AM. Reason: added comment
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    but at the same time maybe the thugs would have noticed the gun and instead of committing a robbery, maybe they would have just murdered him out right

    Please cite a single verifiable incident where this has ever happened.

    If you can't, then stop spreading the myth that OC makes someone a target...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-08-2011 at 01:15 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    I'm just trying to remind folks that there is no magic aura that comes off your gun that will, all by itself, protect you from harm.

    Fortunately in this case another bad person made a poor selection of their intended victim.

    stay safe.
    To say it does not make a bag guy take a moment of pause in attacking a person who is open carrying is foolish. Now there are stupid criminals willing to take that risk and in many cases they loose their life. Conceal carry does not work this way, its a thought in a criminals mind HOPING they are not armed. Open carrying makes it known and criminals hate hard targets.

    Criminals in most cases will NOT attack a known armed person.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...M_eAWnQ#t=154s
    Last edited by zack991; 01-10-2011 at 02:20 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    Please cite a single verifiable incident where I ever claimed it did happen.

    Please stop spreading the myth that open carrying a firearm makes you a super hero.

    In my opinion its most sensible that if a criminal sees a firearm and hasnt already initiated their attack that they will avoid contact for fear of being shot. This seems like common sense to me. But it seems just plain naive to think that nobody has, or ever will be, robbed of their gun and/or targeted because OF the gun.

    Their has been atleast of story where the man who was robbed said he believed he was targeted for his gun. Also keep in mind that many crimes go unreported.

    Since when is having a differing opinion or contemplating hypothetical situations "spreading myths"?
    Suggest you sit down a spell and let's chat. Even being a fairly new poster here you are entitled to an "opinion" but few will support unsubstantiated "feelings" or suggesting that well based responses are "naive" just because you think/feel it is so.

    Spreading "myths" is when the facts are contrary to your "opinion" and when NOT substantiated by data. We deal in facts here. We expect cites. You might think that we should tolerate rants contrarily formed - we do not. The 1st one taken out theory or it'll just get taken from you warning if not myths ARE old wives tales.

    With that in mind, I offer you this specific homework assignment: Find us one (1) documented cite, where a legal OCer was ever preemptively taken out, had his gun taken as the primary target in a robbery or snatched anywhere in modern times in these United States - LEOs, security and military excepted.

    Your one referenced incident has some serious problems/questions regarding the circumstances, so you'll excuse me if I ask for one (1) other. Will this possibly happen some day? Without a doubt, but the resultant numbers will reflect a ratio/decimal equivalent somewhat like .000001%. How much change would you expect in those numbers if there were 5 or 6 such incidents?

    With all of that said, I welcome you to OCDO, but you cannot jump in with both feet contrary to what the great multitude here has found to be will documented, sound principle and proceed to tell us where and why we are wrong without being the direct recipient of some frustration. Take a deep breath, join in, but do listen a lot and learn.
    'Nuff said?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Criminals like soft targets. If people carry openly, it makes them 'hard' targets. While sociopaths will carryout their rampaging no matter what, an armed citizen(s) will at least be able to prevent further casualties.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    Another thing i dont understand is the hostility. I dont recall being a wise ass or being rude (intentionally) during a serious discussion but you come at me with things like "lets sit down a spell and have a chat shall we" and "Nuff said." As if you are scolding me in front of the rest of the classmates or something.

    Will i get over it? already done. do i still think it was a little unnessecary? Yeah honestly i do.
    No hostility, only a genuine attempt to have a straight talk. ymmv
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    i guess that separates us because id rather the story read "Man shops safely and returns home with his family in time for Conan O'Brian". boring but atleast nobody got killed or put in harms way right?

    What does your quote have to do with pondering a situation where a robber wants to steal your gun? How am i suddenyl anti gun just for offering up a scenori for people to mull over? Its like you guys get angry thinking there could possibly be anyone who didnt agree with you 100% and had the nerve to use your forum...
    Methinks you are on the wrong forum. I think you need to find one that reads "Mamby Pamby land" and go there. You're living in a dream world sonny and us sheepdogs are the only ones you can rely on to protect you. If he was headed home to watch Conan Obrien he's of the same ilk. I'd much prefer it read "Man OC'ing stopped crime by the mere presence of his weapon in open view" I'd much rather be a hard target then walk around bleating "Baaa" all day.
    Last edited by KansasMustang; 01-12-2011 at 08:17 AM. Reason: forgot quotation marks
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    Sheepdog? Really? You are such a **** ****** ****** its not even worth continuing this discussion. You arent even interested in an intelligent argument, your comments are "you dont belong here" and "Im on the bandwagon" in essence.

    You make this forum look bad.

    ............--Moderator Edited --
    Deleted personal attack - let that be a warning.
    Well it's just my opinion that you really have no interest in your own self protection and advancing the cause of "Open Carry" nor the 2nd amendment. So yes I really think that this forum is not right for you. You need to find the Kumbaya forum and the let's all sit in a circle, join hand and pass the pipe forum. Wish I'd have seen the personal attack before the Moderator deleted it. I love it when I piss progressives off.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    I am glad he and his family are ok, if he was open carrying i am sure the bad guys would not have followed.
    +1

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    For the record, nutnfancy is an idiot, and I've told him so in the comments to some of his ridiculous videos.

    /off-topic

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    For the record, nutnfancy is an idiot, and I've told him so in the comments to some of his ridiculous videos.

    /off-topic
    Agreed he has some ok points but some stuff he comes up with makes my head hurt. He is also very biased to begin with when doing any gun reviews.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    You are a quite good example of why birth control is a good idea.

    Children, please, enough with the personal attacks. There may be adults who wish to converse about this incident.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-16-2011 at 05:31 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
    ...because of course the goal of being on the forum is to try and make yourself look like a hardass.
    Are you quite sure you're not a Brady troll?

    I'm still trying to suss out what your angle is on this forum. I do know that I've seen you in belligerent confrontation in just about every thread you've been in. And I do know that I've seen you whine about having posts modified by admins, despite the fact that the first goes with the second like bacon and eggs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    ...
    When you are in a discussion with someone whose postulates are diametrically opposed to yours, neither of you will "win." May I recommend that your goal be to sway the thinking of those who read but do not reply. State your position rationally. Refute the opposing arguments logically, pointing out the logical flaws of the opposing opinion. Refrain from making your responses about your opponent. Talk about his ideas, words, and actions, not about him.

    Take the high road. You won't change his mind, but you weren't going to, anyway it went. You will, however, influence others who were only reading.

    Just a nickel's worth of free advice.
    Last edited by eye95; 01-16-2011 at 05:34 PM.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    When you are in a discussion with someone whose postulates are diametrically opposed to yours, neither of you will "win." May I recommend that your goal be to sway the thinking of those who read but do not reply. State your position rationally. Refute the opposing arguments logically, pointing out the logical flaws of the opposing opinion.
    eye95 makes a good point. This is why I continue to challenge his arguments, even though he has -- fortuitously -- placed me on his ignore list.

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    I do believe this thread has strayed a bit from the original subject. In case it has been forgotten it was along the lines of a man protecting his family with a gun.

    I support that basic activity. How about you?
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

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