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Thread: Rising gas prices hurt hunters, shooters

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    Rising gas prices hurt hunters, shooters

    WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET...besides holes and empty space?


    "... Hunters and anglers are hit very hard with high gas costs and will likely reduce their travels or skip things altogether because it is simply too expensive for that trek to Chelan or Okanogan or Ferry county for five trout a day, four grouse a day or a chance to maybe see one legal deer to shoot. It is too expensive to fuel the boat...

    "...Face it, you snobby economists: People spend their “disposable” income on outdoor recreation and vacations, and that’s not going to happen in 2011 if they are “disposing” of that “disposable” income at the gas pump just to get back and forth to work..."



    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...ssman-can-help

    Or try this:

    http://tinyurl.com/2evt298

  2. #2
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    A recent commentary on News Broadcast pointed out that today's price of gas is not so much directly tied to the price of oil as it is caused by Investors speculating on gasoline "futures". People that never before traded in commodities are now playing in the market.

    Another factor is refinery capacity. We have let the "greenies", over the last 50 years, stifle the ability of the Oil Industry to build new and more efficient refineries. Instead they are forced to operate units that have long since lost their prime.

    Just another example of how we are governed by fools who are "bought" by special interest.

    Perhaps the great "economic engine" of the US might have to "sputter more" before our idiot leaders realize that they don't have the smarts to fix it and let those that do get back in charge. The more they meddle, the worse it gets.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    A recent commentary on News Broadcast pointed out that today's price of gas is not so much directly tied to the price of oil as it is caused by Investors speculating on gasoline "futures". People that never before traded in commodities are now playing in the market.

    Another factor is refinery capacity. We have let the "greenies", over the last 50 years, stifle the ability of the Oil Industry to build new and more efficient refineries. Instead they are forced to operate units that have long since lost their prime.

    Just another example of how we are governed by fools who are "bought" by special interest.

    Perhaps the great "economic engine" of the US might have to "sputter more" before our idiot leaders realize that they don't have the smarts to fix it and let those that do get back in charge. The more they meddle, the worse it gets.
    Amlevin:

    Don't forget to post your comments at the bottom of the column at Examiner. I think your remarks will stir up quite a few reactions!
    Thx for reading!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    A recent commentary on News Broadcast pointed out that today's price of gas is not so much directly tied to the price of oil as it is caused by Investors speculating on gasoline "futures". People that never before traded in commodities are now playing in the market.
    And it becomes a case of self-fulfilling prophecies. All it takes is for one person to "think" that gas prices are going to go up for everyone else to get into a panic and buy into the futures to secure their investments.

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    The market is a squirrel ruled by fear, not logic. But that aside I dabbled in options and its almost the same thing except that you can limit your losses. Demand surely has to figure into the equation. China and India coming into thier own and many people owning cars for the first time surely drive up the cost.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    Amlevin:

    Don't forget to post your comments at the bottom of the column at Examiner. I think your remarks will stir up quite a few reactions!
    Thx for reading!!!
    Done

    Feel free to quote me anytime you might feel it's appropriate.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Robbery

    I say Robbery since I fear from not paying the inflated price, don't fill tank, don't get to work, lose job!
    I had a retired refinery guy tell me on Christmas Eve as I filled up, and he was posting a higher price that there was a surplus at our local refineries, and yet the price was being raised. Not sure if what he told me holds true!

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    I say Robbery since I fear from not paying the inflated price, don't fill tank, don't get to work, lose job!
    I had a retired refinery guy tell me on Christmas Eve as I filled up, and he was posting a higher price that there was a surplus at our local refineries, and yet the price was being raised. Not sure if what he told me holds true!
    Refinery employees don't know what's going on at the Sales and Marketing level. As I posted earlier, gasoline prices are now being set by the commodities trading. The Gasoline that they have in the tanks is probably already sold in a "futures" contract. Why would an Oil company sell today something they can keep in a tank and deliver in the future at a much higher price. It can effectively create a "shortage" even though there is plenty in the tanks.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Done

    Feel free to quote me anytime you might feel it's appropriate.
    Well, I'll tell ya what is just plain annoying is that guy riverworld, who is such a jackwagon apologist for and defender of lib Democrats who have largely screwed up the country and the economy and blamed it on Bush. That dog don't hunt, and that argument don't pass the smell test.

    Anytime I comment on the jerky way Democrats have been toward gun rights or the economy or anything else, he gets snotty and calls the remark "gratuitous." I'm tempted to respond, but then it might discourage others from commenting.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    Well, I'll tell ya what is just plain annoying is that guy riverworld, who is such a jackwagon apologist for and defender of lib Democrats who have largely screwed up the country and the economy and blamed it on Bush. That dog don't hunt, and that argument don't pass the smell test.

    Anytime I comment on the jerky way Democrats have been toward gun rights or the economy or anything else, he gets snotty and calls the remark "gratuitous." I'm tempted to respond, but then it might discourage others from commenting.
    I don't think that word means what he thinks it means.

  11. #11
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    How about the price of ammunition?

    That's REALLY what's kicking me in the mouth. Less ammo = less training = less opportunities.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    Well, I'll tell ya what is just plain annoying is that guy riverworld, who is such a jackwagon apologist for and defender of lib Democrats who have largely screwed up the country and the economy and blamed it on Bush. That dog don't hunt, and that argument don't pass the smell test.

    Anytime I comment on the jerky way Democrats have been toward gun rights or the economy or anything else, he gets snotty and calls the remark "gratuitous." I'm tempted to respond, but then it might discourage others from commenting.
    I wouldn't get all worked up over him or anyone else like that. He's probably one of those pampered children of some post hippie era parents that has several college degrees and can't get a job, even at McDonald's. Probably still lives at home in his old room, alternately dropping trash talk comments on commentaries like yours, and the rest of the time on the "Free Porn" sites.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    I wouldn't get all worked up over him or anyone else like that. He's probably one of those pampered children of some post hippie era parents that has several college degrees and can't get a job, even at McDonald's. Probably still lives at home in his old room, alternately dropping trash talk comments on commentaries like yours, and the rest of the time on the "Free Porn" sites.
    Wow man, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

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    If hunting and outdoor trekking are important to you and the cost of gas is causing trouble for it, why not find ways to save gas elsewhere in the year? 4x10 workweeks, carpools, telecommuting if your job allows it, public transit, etc. Obviously some people are unable to take advantage of these due to any of a number of factors but a large number of people simply don't want to or are unwilling to.
    As a sports car enthusiast with a nearly 40-mile round trip commute, I'm intimately familiar with the huge impact of gas prices. Because of that, I've been a long time mass-transit rider. It was a simple equation for me; In order to drive the car I love, I had to sit my butt on a bus a few days per week. I was (and am) lucky enough to have nearby bus routes for my employer AND my home so it's easy for me. Most folks who live in or near a decent-sized city have it as an option but never look into it. I used to live rurally and there were bus routes there. Even things like a park and ride to cut 10-15 miles off your daily commute can save you hundreds per month. That's a LOT of ammo and shooting trips, no?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamichi View Post
    If hunting and outdoor trekking are important to you and the cost of gas is causing trouble for it, why not find ways to save gas elsewhere in the year? 4x10 workweeks, carpools, telecommuting if your job allows it, public transit, etc. Obviously some people are unable to take advantage of these due to any of a number of factors but a large number of people simply don't want to or are unwilling to.
    As a sports car enthusiast with a nearly 40-mile round trip commute, I'm intimately familiar with the huge impact of gas prices. Because of that, I've been a long time mass-transit rider. It was a simple equation for me; In order to drive the car I love, I had to sit my butt on a bus a few days per week. I was (and am) lucky enough to have nearby bus routes for my employer AND my home so it's easy for me. Most folks who live in or near a decent-sized city have it as an option but never look into it. I used to live rurally and there were bus routes there. Even things like a park and ride to cut 10-15 miles off your daily commute can save you hundreds per month. That's a LOT of ammo and shooting trips, no?
    Welcome to the forum Yamichi. Do you shoot are into Gun rights?

    Good points but, I think we shouldn't have to change our lifestyle because politicians feel the need to mess with our "free" market.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 01-08-2011 at 11:12 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  16. #16
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Welcome to the forum Yamichi. Do you shoot are into Gun rights?

    Good points but, I think we shouldn't have to change our lifestyle because politicians feel the need to mess with our "free" market.
    It's not so much the politicians that are messing with the free market it's the "opportunists" that are driving the price of gas up by their speculation. In this case it might be a good thing if we had some regulation on how crude oil and gasoline is traded in this country. As it is we have a system that allows prices to be run up merely on the basis of fear and the profits do nothing to encourage the increased supply.

    As for "lifestyle", it's a matter of personal choice as the poster pointed out. If you have a finite amount of money you have to decide what activities are most important. There is no requirement that the government see that we have enough to do everything we want to do without limitation.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    It's not so much the politicians that are messing with the free market it's the "opportunists" that are driving the price of gas up by their speculation. In this case it might be a good thing if we had some regulation on how crude oil and gasoline is traded in this country. As it is we have a system that allows prices to be run up merely on the basis of fear and the profits do nothing to encourage the increased supply.

    As for "lifestyle", it's a matter of personal choice as the poster pointed out. If you have a finite amount of money you have to decide what activities are most important. There is no requirement that the government see that we have enough to do everything we want to do without limitation.
    Why would they drive it up if it wasn't for the amount of effort politicians have put into messing with it and the fear we will run out? Would it be going up if politicians would allow us to be energy independent and use the plentiful resources we have?

    I do see your point but look at what happened to ammo prices on the "fear" of what a newly elected president would do. Even if it was not directly the politicians effected that market too.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Why would they drive it up if it wasn't for the amount of effort politicians have put into messing with it and the fear we will run out? Would it be going up if politicians would allow us to be energy independent and use the plentiful resources we have?

    I do see your point but look at what happened to ammo prices on the "fear" of what a newly elected president would do. Even if it was not directly the politicians effected that market too.
    Never underestimate the power of mass hysteria

    I remember a few years back in AZ... a gasoline pipeline from Kali that brought in something like 10% of our gas supply broke. The media jumped on it and scared the crap out of the sheeple telling them "better fill up now before all the gas is gone!" Within a day or so gas stations were running out of gas, prices were extortionate, people were lining up to panic, etc. Think a couple of tanker drivers got beat up too. Now during all this, they upped the number of tankers coming in from Kali to compensate. All in all, the actual interruption in supply was very minor and probably wouldn't even have been noticed without the stupid media panic. In about a week the pipeline was fixed & everything was back to normal. I had filled up just prior to the break & got to sit back & laugh while all the sheeple stampeded. By the time I needed to fill up agian, it was over.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Welcome to the forum Yamichi. Do you shoot are into Gun rights?

    Good points but, I think we shouldn't have to change our lifestyle because politicians feel the need to mess with our "free" market.
    Thanks, SVG!
    I don't shoot enough yet but I'm very into gun rights and my awesome GF is an OC'er and is getting me into that part of it. I go shooting with friends every summer but I'm not YET a hobbyist. So in short, I'm a noob when it comes to guns.

    I don't think our lifestyles should revolve around politicians either. My choices revolve around the resources I have on hand and the goals I have in mind. If something is important to me, I make it happen and I don't let other things stop me. If a situation changes and my goals don't, my habits have to.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamichi View Post
    Thanks, SVG!
    I don't shoot enough yet but I'm very into gun rights and my awesome GF is an OC'er and is getting me into that part of it. I go shooting with friends every summer but I'm not YET a hobbyist. So in short, I'm a noob when it comes to guns.

    I don't think our lifestyles should revolve around politicians either. My choices revolve around the resources I have on hand and the goals I have in mind. If something is important to me, I make it happen and I don't let other things stop me. If a situation changes and my goals don't, my habits have to.
    Yep I hear that, been going through some tough times these last few years (contractor) you choose whats important and work around the rest. LOL.

    Don't know what part of the northwest you are from but would love to go shooting sometime, or hope to see ya at a gathering soon.

    Edit: P.S. Awesome Girlfriend by the way. Usually it works the other way around and it's the guys bringing their women around to the "light side".
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 01-08-2011 at 09:26 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Never underestimate the power of mass hysteria

    I remember a few years back in AZ... a gasoline pipeline from Kali that brought in something like 10% of our gas supply broke. The media jumped on it and scared the crap out of the sheeple telling them "better fill up now before all the gas is gone!" Within a day or so gas stations were running out of gas, prices were extortionate, people were lining up to panic, etc. Think a couple of tanker drivers got beat up too. Now during all this, they upped the number of tankers coming in from Kali to compensate. All in all, the actual interruption in supply was very minor and probably wouldn't even have been noticed without the stupid media panic. In about a week the pipeline was fixed & everything was back to normal. I had filled up just prior to the break & got to sit back & laugh while all the sheeple stampeded. By the time I needed to fill up agian, it was over.
    And this helps make my point. Although we tend to blame politicians as the cause of everything bad that happens in the economy, some "wounds" are self inflicted. The media fanning the flames and the "sheeple" running out and doing the last thing that should be done in order to avoid an unnatural shift in the market. Gasoline is a market driven commodity and any speculation or panic will run the price up far beyond the natural levels dictated by "supply and demand".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  22. #22
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Who doesn't raising gas prices hurt? Besides oil companies and their stock holders.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Who doesn't raising gas prices hurt? Besides oil companies and their stock holders.
    So oil companies don't have the right to make a profit? The way it's been explained above, it's the speculators making the real money.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    So oil companies don't have the right to make a profit? The way it's been explained above, it's the speculators making the real money.
    I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that he was implying it hurts EVERYBODY, not just hunters and shooters. Which seems to be pretty accurate.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamichi View Post
    I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that he was implying it hurts EVERYBODY, not just hunters and shooters. Which seems to be pretty accurate.
    Correct. It's a meaningless position. Every person hurting, unless you're truly wealthy.

    Might as well say "Price of food going up is encouraging subsistence hunting."

    Or "Gas prices irrelevant to hunters, since they save money by not buying meat."


    /meh
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 01-09-2011 at 02:04 AM.

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