Rising gas prices hurt hunters, shooters

amlevin · Jan 8, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
Never underestimate the power of mass hysteria

I remember a few years back in AZ... a gasoline pipeline from Kali that brought in something like 10% of our gas supply broke. The media jumped on it and scared the crap out of the sheeple telling them "better fill up now before all the gas is gone!" Within a day or so gas stations were running out of gas, prices were extortionate, people were lining up to panic, etc. Think a couple of tanker drivers got beat up too. Now during all this, they upped the number of tankers coming in from Kali to compensate. All in all, the actual interruption in supply was very minor and probably wouldn't even have been noticed without the stupid media panic. In about a week the pipeline was fixed & everything was back to normal. I had filled up just prior to the break & got to sit back & laugh while all the sheeple stampeded. By the time I needed to fill up agian, it was over.

And this helps make my point. Although we tend to blame politicians as the cause of everything bad that happens in the economy, some "wounds" are self inflicted. The media fanning the flames and the "sheeple" running out and doing the last thing that should be done in order to avoid an unnatural shift in the market. Gasoline is a market driven commodity and any speculation or panic will run the price up far beyond the natural levels dictated by "supply and demand".

Dave_pro2a · Jan 8, 2011

Who doesn't raising gas prices hurt? Besides oil companies and their stock holders.

Metalhead47 · Jan 9, 2011

Dave_pro2a said:
Who doesn't raising gas prices hurt? Besides oil companies and their stock holders.

So oil companies don't have the right to make a profit? The way it's been explained above, it's the speculators making the real money.

Yamichi · Jan 9, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
So oil companies don't have the right to make a profit? The way it's been explained above, it's the speculators making the real money.

I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that he was implying it hurts EVERYBODY, not just hunters and shooters. Which seems to be pretty accurate.

Dave_pro2a · Jan 9, 2011

Yamichi said:
I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that he was implying it hurts EVERYBODY, not just hunters and shooters. Which seems to be pretty accurate.

Correct. It's a meaningless position. Every person hurting, unless you're truly wealthy.

Might as well say "Price of food going up is encouraging subsistence hunting."

Or "Gas prices irrelevant to hunters, since they save money by not buying meat."

/meh

amlevin · Jan 9, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
So oil companies don't have the right to make a profit? The way it's been explained above, it's the speculators making the real money.

And when you look at the "breakdown" on where the money goes from the sale of a gallon of gasoline, TAXES that are collected by Local, State, and Fed's make up a higher percentage than that which goes to profit.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 9, 2011

amlevin said:
And when you look at the "breakdown" on where the money goes from the sale of a gallon of gasoline, TAXES that are collected by Local, State, and Fed's make up a higher percentage than that which goes to profit.

Hmmm politicians messing with it.:lol:

amlevin · Jan 9, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
Hmmm politicians messing with it.:lol:

Do you honestly think that removing the taxes would make the price of gas go down?

sudden valley gunner · Jan 9, 2011

amlevin said:
Do you honestly think that removing the taxes would make the price of gas go down?

Yes by at least the price of the tax.

killchain · Jan 10, 2011

amlevin said:
And when you look at the "breakdown" on where the money goes from the sale of a gallon of gasoline, TAXES that are collected by Local, State, and Fed's make up a higher percentage than that which goes to profit.

Washington state is one of the highest taxed-states when it comes to fuel purchase.

The taxes on a gallon of gasoline in 2010 in Washington State were 37.5 cents. Also keep in mind that they hit us with sales tax, AND the GRT. Sales tax is 8.3% if I remember right, and the GRT would be 0.471% on a retail sale.

I'm too lazy to do all of the math, but here's the numbers. Just corroborating you, amlevin.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/245.html

amlevin · Jan 10, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
Yes by at least the price of the tax.

Sorry but your dream catcher is definitely all wet. Any reduction in tax will merely go to the retailer's and wholesaler's bottom line. Demand and speculation will keep the price high, regardless. As a small example, look at the tribal gas stations. They pay little or no taxes on the fuel yet their prices are not all that lower than the local discounter's. The tribe keeps the tax for themselves on all sales to non members.

skiingislife725 · Jan 10, 2011

Speculation on gasoline and crude futures is definitely one part of the equation...but to say that the prices are fluctuating based upon pure speculation is trying to make a complex issue seem way too simplistic. It's the same as saying that getting rid of guns will get rid of inner-city violence. It ignores all the rest of the variables and just focuses on one of them to explain it. Crude futures...and gasoline futures, which tend to mirror what crude does, can fluctuate because of currency fluctuations (esp. the US), increases in shipping (as the world population explodes), hostility in oil-rich regions (i.e. - Nigeria), decreasing supplies globally, changing economies (such as China), etc etc.

Open carrying my Glock 26 while typing this, just so everyone knows. No sneaking up on me in the office!

sudden valley gunner · Jan 11, 2011

amlevin said:
Sorry but your dream catcher is definitely all wet. Any reduction in tax will merely go to the retailer's and wholesaler's bottom line. Demand and speculation will keep the price high, regardless. As a small example, look at the tribal gas stations. They pay little or no taxes on the fuel yet their prices are not all that lower than the local discounter's. The tribe keeps the tax for themselves on all sales to non members.

Ummm not true. For tribal members the price is definitely lower than the state tax. Tribes keep 75% of the tax, the station is on their "soveriegn" nation I don't see nothing wrong with that.

But one example is not proof, If all gas stations had no taxes attached than competition would definitely lower the price. Look at alcohol sales, everything in the state of Hawaii is more expensive, yet because hard alcohol is not sold at a state store, it is significantly cheaper than here, hmm but beer is more expensive.

Metalhead47 · Jan 11, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
hmm but bear is more expensive.

Well of course BEAR is more expensive, that sure as heck has to be imported! No bears in Hawaii far as I know, so fresh bear's gotta be expensive. Probably goes well with a nice beer tho.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 11, 2011

Metalhead47 said:
Well of course BEAR is more expensive, that sure as heck has to be imported! No bears in Hawaii far as I know, so fresh bear's gotta be expensive. Probably goes well with a nice beer tho.

Many you are quick I fixed that almost immediately....lol.

dwordinger · Jan 12, 2011

Speculators are not responsible for higher fuel prices any more than they are when prices come down. In every speculative trade there are two traders with differing opinions on future prices. Do you feel sorry for those speculators who lose money?

The price of fuel is going up when priced in Federal Reserve Accounting Units, Dollars, but are lower when compared to some other hard assets. The problem is the decreasing value of our FRAUDs. When the amount of something increases, the unit value comes down.
http://mises.org/content/nofed/chart.aspx?series=TMS
Copper prices are going to raise the price of our bullet jackets.
http://metalprices.com/
The price of lead will have an even bigger impact. (No pun intended.)
http://metalprices.com/FreeSite/metals/pb/pb.asp
The prices of wool, cotton, agricultural products, and other raw materials are going up also. Some of them faster than fuel.
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?
Yes, life is getting expensive.
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/01/seven-things-that-will-cost-more-in.html
But put the blame where it belongs.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/openmarket.htm

amlevin · Jan 12, 2011

According to Vermont's December fuel report, gasoline prices have jumped $.46 a gallon since September, bringing the average price of a gallon of gas to $3.14. With supply strong and demand relatively weak, many economists believe prices have risen beyond what the market should allow. This most recent rise in gasoline prices has coincided with a sharp rise in speculative energy contracts.

Let's see, supply strong, demand weak, prices go up in concert with rise in spec. energy contracts. And this is only one case.

Currently, speculators pay a lower tax rate on profits from futures than commercial users do. This encourages speculation and distorts the normal supply-demand balance of the market.

Please, don't urinate on our shoes and try to convince us it's raining. Speculation does effect the market price of fuel.

Here's some info on what our new Congress will be looking at:

http://www.welch.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1283&Itemid=32

dwordinger · Jan 12, 2011

So incompetent congressmen, who are Constitutionally responsible for the value of our money, are trying to cover their behinds and make naive voters believe they are "doing something" to correct the ills they caused.

As I already pointed out every futures trade (by "speculators") requires two participants. Do you think both sides make a profit and that causes prices to rise? Speculative trading dampens market swings and keeps prices from rising as much as they would otherwise. http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block160.html

This is not the first time traders have been blamed for the failings of our government and it's just as wrong now as it has been in the past. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/karlsson9.html

Try not to wet your shoes when you pee in your pants.

Lovenox · Jan 12, 2011

amlevin said:
And when you look at the "breakdown" on where the money goes from the sale of a gallon of gasoline, TAXES that are collected by Local, State, and Fed's make up a higher percentage than that which goes to profit.

Yup! The governments margin is higher than the oil companies. The oil companies have been demonized but in reality its the governement making more per gallon than the oil companies. Funny, huh?

sudden valley gunner · Jan 13, 2011

Lovenox said:
Yup! The governments margin is higher than the oil companies. The oil companies have been demonized but in reality its the governement making more per gallon than the oil companies. Funny, huh?

Oh but that isn't the government messing with it......LOL. :lol:

Maybe gas wouldn't be $100 dollars per barrel if they hadn't devalued our dollar down to Canadian levels.

Rising gas prices hurt hunters, shooters

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