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Thread: Strange argument

  1. #1
    Regular Member lykwidtepp's Avatar
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    Strange argument

    I got into an argument/discussion about Open Carry. My friend was usually quiet about it, but for some reason today when he came over he started talking about it with me. We talked for about 20 minutes about it, and he gave some very strange reasons on why Open Carry doesn't work.

    He basically stated that Open Carry will attract other "hardasses" to want to pick a fight with you, because that whenever people open carry, they do it because they try to act all "hard". I then stated that I have never ever heard of an OC story of someone getting beat up just because they were OC'ing.

    Another thing he said is that life is pre-determined and that we are all going to die on a date that's already determined in our lives. Saying stuff like God knows the date, but we don't. So carrying a gun won't help since we're going to die on a specific date anyways. I then confronted him on that saying that since your saying that if God only knows, and we don't, then we can live our life at free-will. "So why not carry a gun to protect yourself and your family since WE DON'T KNOW the date we will die."

    Likewise, he also said that if he was to carry a gun and have to shoot someone, that he wouldn't want to live with the consequences of going to prison for the rest of his life if he was charged. And literally saying he would rather be dead than in prison. I called BS on that, because if he HAD to use the gun, it would obviously be in self defense. Then he went on saying that lawyers these days are corrupt and will do anything to make the open carrier self defense person to be a horrible murderer.

    Lastly, he said that OC is not tactically sound because when someone goes into a bank to rob the place, and sees you open carry, that you'll be his first target. But I stated, "Then what the heck, why did the guy who was open carrying in the first place just stand there and not unholster his weapon to fight back?"

    Overall, it just bothered me, i'm still red-faced over this. I didn't lose a friend, just got really ticked off by one. I tried making it as peaceful a talk as I could, but I could never understand his points. And he's firmly sticking to them.
    "It's better to be the worst of the best than the best of the worst"

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  2. #2
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    Obviously he doesn't feel comfortable OCing. Okay, that's his decision. Whether his reasoning is rational or not is irrelevant. You can try to educate him (bring a horse to water), but you can't necessarily change his opinion (make him drink).

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    My family tried to use some of the similar arguments against me. I believe that when its your time to go its your time to go but there are some ways people die and it probably wasn't their time to go. Everyone carries for the obvious reason of self defense but the other part is because it is our right to carry. You don't use it, you lose it. Don't know what ya had until its gone....ect.

    Mainly, what it comes down to is that you can only ask of that friend to respect your decision to carry. He may not have to like it but respect that it is your choice. That is how my family is with me.

  4. #4
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    Your story reminded me of this old joke:

    A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

    Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle."

    With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, "I don't know what you're complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter."
    Take responsibility for your own safety. You might not have the luxury of 3 boats and a helicopter.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by UglyGun View Post
    Your story reminded me of this old joke:



    Take responsibility for your own safety. You might not have the luxury of 3 boats and a helicopter.
    That's a good one UglyGun Robin47

  6. #6
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Regarding openly carried arms....


    Did'ya ever wonder, back in the day when every well dressed gentleman carried a sword or epee was there still some yakoff saying "Prithee good Sir, thou shouldn't do so for surely some ruffian will see you are not defenseless and attackest thou"?

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    I say get a friend with an IQ above 30. his arguments are emotional and not fact based.

  8. #8
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    Personally, it would be VERY easy for me to justify my POTENTIAL use of POSSIBLY LETHAL force in LAWFUL SELF-DEFENSE when I take shatever action is needed to defend myself from some twit who initiates assault and or battery on my person while I am openly carrying a firearm. It goes like this..." I was lawfully OC'ing in a location where I was lawfully present. He attempted for forcibly take my firearm from me and I feared for my life because of his actions. In order to STOP his illegal actions that very reasonably could have been lethal against me I was FORCED to ...."

    Sorry, ANYONE attempting to illegally disarm someone/ anyone with an openly carried firearm IS TOO STUPID TO BREATHE!

  9. #9
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    As long as the friend isn't trying to prohibit your freedom to own and carry a firearm for protection, I wouldn't be too bothered by his feelings and opinions on it even if they don't appear rational to you.

    As far as it being provacative, it can be in some instances. Some nutjobs out there actually to respond when they see a gun as if its insulting to them in some personal way. Just like sometimes you see one big dude in a bar start up a fight with the other biggest dude in a bar yet he left all the littleler guys alone up to that point. Its a testosterone thing but I do believe he's wrong about most OC'ers doing it as some cock on a walk kind of thing. Most I've known seem to give a little extra attention to being polite and friendly. I know I do for the most part.

    As far as his beliefs about a predetermined destiny, its his way of being able to go through his daily routine without having to fear and to be content. The same exact thing applies for many of us who wish to arm ourselves. It helps to assure ourselves of our own safety and such allows us to move mentally easier and cope with our day. With some of the strange things I've seen and the strange people I've met, coupled with what appears to be an increase in home invasions and car jackings, I'd be uncomfortable to say the least if I didn't at least have my home armed as well as my vehicle when I am out and about.

  10. #10
    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

  11. #11
    Regular Member billv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lykwidtepp View Post
    ...

    Another thing he said is that life is pre-determined and that we are all going to die on a date that's already determined in our lives. Saying stuff like God knows the date, but we don't. So carrying a gun won't help since we're going to die on a specific date anyways. I then confronted him on that saying that since your saying that if God only knows, and we don't, then we can live our life at free-will. "So why not carry a gun to protect yourself and your family since WE DON'T KNOW the date we will die."
    ...
    So how does he know that God hasn't written in the Book that he is supposed to die on some date at the hands of a BG by a gun? How does he know that God has written that some BG is going to die at this guys hands because he carrying and fired in self defense? How does he know that God is not causing him to question his stance on OC or guns in general?

    For me, I've found that second guessing God doesn't get me anywhere. He gave us self determination. So be one's self and determine your path in life. Perhaps your friend in questioning that path. Be supportive.

  12. #12
    Regular Member lykwidtepp's Avatar
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    I never told him flat out, "Your wrong!", but what I did do is letting him know that we don't know the date we will die, so do what you can while your still alive to keep yourself safe. I don't think God wants us to just give up. I will accept the day I die, but I won't go on living like I'm giving up. I'll do what I can using any means necessary to keep my family and myself, safe.
    "It's better to be the worst of the best than the best of the worst"

    "If problems persist, you'll need to install Tannerite in your computer, and then we can troubleshoot it"

  13. #13
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    Invite your friend to put on a blindfold and go play in the freeway. Whether he lives or dies, it's just God's will... right?

  14. #14
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    I really don't believe God cares when any of us die. Well, I don't have any kind of evidence to lead me to believe that he does at least. What's important to me is that I care and people close to me care. There are many dangers that I have little to no control over but there are others that I potentially have alot of control over if I choose. I really don't want to be maimed or killed due to some other person's selfish violent choices if I can help it. I want to make it as long as I can on this earth as long as my efforts in doing so aren't also in direct conflict with my daily contentment and the quality of life I can maintain for myself.

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