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Thread: No loaded firearms on Snowmobiles, not even with CPL, since 2003

  1. #1
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    No loaded firearms on Snowmobiles, not even with CPL, since 2003

    Now, here is one I have never seen before. Handgunlaw.us just put it up on the Washington page. Was anyone aware of this? So, snowmobiles are an exception to the allowance in 9.41.050 by permit, and have been since July 1 2004 according to this.

    I wonder how many have broken this one. I noticed Oregon had a similar law, but never knew Washington was dumb enough to have a law like this.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.10.130
    RCW 46.10.130
    Additional violations — Penalty. (Effective until July 1, 2011. Recodified as RCW 46.10.495.)


    (1) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to endanger human life.

    (2) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to run down or harass deer, elk, or any wildlife, or any domestic animal, nor shall any person carry any loaded weapon upon, nor hunt from, any snowmobile except by permit issued by the director of fish and wildlife under RCW 77.32.237.

    (3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

    [2003 c 53 234; 1994 c 264 37; 1989 c 297 4; 1979 ex.s. c 182 11; 1971 ex.s. c 29 13.]

    THEN....

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.10.495
    RCW 46.10.495
    Additional violations — Penalty. (Effective July 1, 2011.)


    (1) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to endanger human life.

    (2) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to run down or harass deer, elk, or any wildlife, or any domestic animal, nor shall any person carry any loaded weapon upon, nor hunt from, any snowmobile except by permit issued by the director of fish and wildlife under RCW 77.32.237.

    (3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

    [2003 c 53 234; 1994 c 264 37; 1989 c 297 4; 1979 ex.s. c 182 11; 1971 ex.s. c 29 13. Formerly RCW 46.10.130.]
    Last edited by FMCDH; 01-06-2011 at 02:18 AM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Since the wording is "no loaded weapon upon" I would think that it was intended to be for Rifles or Shotguns that might be mounted like one might carry a long gun on an ATV. Would be interesting to see what Dept of Wildlife would have to say on this.

    At Hunter Safety Classes I have attended where DOW officers have been present, they all state that a loaded handgun only requires a CPL if on a Vehicle but no loaded Rifles or Shotguns.

    May be a "writing" error on the part of the legislative staff.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    In September 2010 I have been in contact with a researcher for the legislature in Olympia and he feels this session they can deal with this very issue to exempt carry for self defense.

    I will shoot off another email as a reminder.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Since the wording is "no loaded weapon upon" I would think that it was intended to be for Rifles or Shotguns that might be mounted like one might carry a long gun on an ATV. Would be interesting to see what Dept of Wildlife would have to say on this.

    At Hunter Safety Classes I have attended where DOW officers have been present, they all state that a loaded handgun only requires a CPL if on a Vehicle but no loaded Rifles or Shotguns.

    May be a "writing" error on the part of the legislative staff.
    That was my initial thought too, but normally they reference other RCWs or WACs for those kinds of exceptions if they are intended to apply. This RCW has none of that except the one to RCW 77.32.237.

    The legislative intent behind this one is kind of cloudy, as the Notes quoted for reference dont seem to fit to this RCW.
    Last edited by FMCDH; 01-06-2011 at 01:07 PM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMCDH View Post
    That was my initial thought too, but normally they reference other RCWs or WACs for those kinds of exceptions if they are intended to apply. This RCW has none of that except the one to RCW 77.32.237.

    The legislative intent behind this one is kind of cloudy, as the Notes quoted for reference dont seem to fit to this RCW.
    Loaded firearms in vehicles "code" is usually hidden in the "Fish and Game" section of the RCW's, not under Title 9.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  6. #6
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Loaded firearms in vehicles "code" is usually hidden in the "Fish and Game" section of the RCW's, not under Title 9.
    So are you saying this restriction only applies in areas under the direct authority of Fish and Game?

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Just received this email back on this very subject;

    Dave, Rep. Ross is sponsoring the following bill.

    AN ACT Relating to permitting the lawful carry of firearms on snowmobiles; and amending RCW 46.10.130.

    BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON:

    Sec. 1. RCW 46.10.130 and 2003 c 53 234 are each amended to read as follows:

    (1) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to endanger human life.

    (2) No person shall operate a snowmobile in such a way as to run down or harass deer, elk, or any wildlife, or any domestic animal, nor shall any person ((carry any loaded weapon upon, nor)) hunt from((,)) any snowmobile except by permit issued by the director of fish and wildlife under RCW 77.32.237)).

    (3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
    The gray lettering is the portion to be removed.
    Last edited by BigDave; 01-06-2011 at 05:57 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Just received this email back on this very subject;



    The gray lettering is the portion to be removed.
    Thanks for that info BigDave.

    Any idea the legislative intent or the history behind why such a law was added in the first place?

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMCDH View Post
    Thanks for that info BigDave.

    Any idea the legislative intent or the history behind why such a law was added in the first place?
    This is just a guess, but since it was attached to snowmobiling I think there was an issue with running down game and then shooting them.
    It has always been a hunting issue that ie road hunting is illegal, one must be on the ground walking, standing or in a stand of sorts. Not to say that game has been observed while driving, stopping, getting out and moving away from the vehicle and take down their game.

    There was and I have not checked lately but it was illegal to have a firearm while archery hunting on ones person as well, but last year I did see an exception with a warning about being able to have a personal defense weapon but one is unable to dispatch an animal ie mercy killing.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    This is just a guess, but since it was attached to snowmobiling I think there was an issue with running down game and then shooting them.
    It has always been a hunting issue that ie road hunting is illegal, one must be on the ground walking, standing or in a stand of sorts. Not to say that game has been observed while driving, stopping, getting out and moving away from the vehicle and take down their game.

    There was and I have not checked lately but it was illegal to have a firearm while archery hunting on ones person as well, but last year I did see an exception with a warning about being able to have a personal defense weapon but one is unable to dispatch an animal ie mercy killing.
    Correct Dave, there was some stalking, harassing and hunting going on.

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    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    There was and I have not checked lately but it was illegal to have a firearm while archery hunting on ones person as well, but last year I did see an exception with a warning about being able to have a personal defense weapon but one is unable to dispatch an animal ie mercy killing.

    Correct, the rules now state you can have while archery hunting or muzzleloader hunting, a modern pistol for personal protection. It caused a lot of in fighting amongst the archery community, but I suspect they will get over it.

    From the 2010 Regs:

    "It is unlawful for any person to carry or
    have in his possession any firearm while in
    the field archery hunting, during an archery
    season specified for that area, except for
    modern handguns carried for personal
    protection. Modern handguns cannot
    be used to hunt big game or dispatch
    wounded big game during an archery, big
    game hunting season."

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    Regular Member ghosthunter's Avatar
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    Big Dave I almost always see eye to eye with you except this.

    "It has always been a hunting issue that ie road hunting is illegal, one must be on the ground walking, standing or in a stand of sorts."

    There is no such wording any where in game laws of washington. In fact disabled hunters can pull to the side of a road and shoot game from any means of transprtation they have. Car,truck, whatever. For all other hunters, they must be off the maintained portion of a public highway and no loaded shotgun or rifle in or on motorized transportation.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghosthunter View Post
    Big Dave I almost always see eye to eye with you except this.

    "It has always been a hunting issue that ie road hunting is illegal, one must be on the ground walking, standing or in a stand of sorts."

    There is no such wording any where in game laws of washington. In fact disabled hunters can pull to the side of a road and shoot game from any means of transprtation they have. Car,truck, whatever. For all other hunters, they must be off the maintained portion of a public highway and no loaded shotgun or rifle in or on motorized transportation.
    It seems to me that you two are both saying the same thing. You just pointed out an exception to Dave's statement.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Just curious... would it change anything if your snowmobile was on a WA State Ferry at the time?
    Only the fare if it was on a trailer.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Just curious... would it change anything if your snowmobile was on a WA State Ferry at the time?
    Yes, it would mean the ferry was buried under several feet of snow...which would be very awkward.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Just off the phone with Rep Ross's Office in Olympia the bill to revise RCW 46.10.130 should be filed with in a day or two.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Glad your Rep has an open ear for these types of things. Mine are deaf and useless for anything other than whats on their party agenda.

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    Please tell me this is a hoax, I always carry my pistol when snowmo, so does everyone I go with.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemutt View Post
    Please tell me this is a hoax, I always carry my pistol when snowmo, so does everyone I go with.
    It is real, I did contact State Rep Ross again today about correcting this and it is headed to be a bill with several backers even a few democrats signing on as co-sponsors.
    Last edited by BigDave; 01-18-2011 at 10:37 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  20. #20
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemutt View Post
    Please tell me this is a hoax, I always carry my pistol when snowmo, so does everyone I go with.
    I thought the quoted RCW was a pretty good giveaway.

    I was as surprised as you when I first stumbled upon it while doing some keyword searches on the RCW site. Lets hope the legislature sees fit to make the changes as purposed in one of Dave's earlier posts. As soon as a HB # is known, I plan to contact my reps and ask them to support the change.

  21. #21
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    This is now House Bill 1400

    I just got off the phone with Rep Ross Office and they are sending the additional RCW 46.10.130 to be added as RCW 46.10.495 reads the same.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Excellent, thanks for the update.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Yes, excellent job Dave. Thanks for grabbing this and running with it the way you did.

  24. #24
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Thanks for the accolades but nothing special that anyone else could done have done a little bit of reading, research and writing which most will do but then to submit and make contact is all it takes.

    Hopefully this will be passed and enacted sometime in June 2011.
    Last edited by BigDave; 01-21-2011 at 01:05 AM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Update sent to Handgunlaw.us with bill and thread information.

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