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The NRA supports giving immigrants the right to carry concealed...

nobama

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If I understand it correctly. A person here legally can own a firearm even if they arent citizens. As long as they are "legal" it has always been that way. Are rights come from our creator, NOT from the Gov.
 

longwatch

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No right is being granted here, permits are a privilege or looked at another way the infringement on a right.
I do like expanding eligibility for permits because as restrictions lessen the path to Constitution carry becomes easier.
This might is probably the first time I've sided with the NRA and ACLU against GOA, which has taken a bizarre stance in this case.
 

JoeSparky

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So god wrote our Bill of Rights? Interesting...

The BILL of RIGHTS is simply a LISTING of those RIGHTS that were felt to be either most important by the writers or most likely to be abused by the Government. I have no problem believing that the framers of our government were guided or inspired by a HIGHER POWER to as they discussed, debated, wrote, and SIGNED the DOCUMENTS that resulted in our great nation.

OUR RIGHTS predate the BILL OF RIGHTS or any other listing of them. The rights PREDATE GOVERNMENT! In the US Declaration references to NATURE'S GOD are made as the source of as these RIGHTS.

I have no problem saying that my rights come from God as I believe I came from God. If you prefer to say "NATURE"S GOD" go for it. It you prefer to say merely that your Rights predate a certain Government... go for it.

The beginning and ending of this is OUR RIGHTS EXISTED BEFORE OUR GOVERNMENT EXISTED so these rights COULD NOT HAVE COME FROM GOVERNMENT!

Getting Government to recognize OUR RIGHTS IS THE NEXT GREAT CHALLENGE!
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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""Legal resident aliens—that is, non-citizens who legally live in the United States—have constitutional rights. No one, for example, would say that a state could prohibit a legal resident alien from freely practicing his religion or engaging in free speech,""


The above is the crux of the issue. There is nothing about this fight that has anything to do with illegal immigrants. Do illegals have a fundamental right to self-defense, yes. Should illegal immigrants have access to acquiring a CCP, NO, they should be arrested and deported! Unless the illegal immigrant is starving to death or needs medical treatment due to a life-threatening health issue, they should immediately be deported, and not be allowed to access anything from our system.
 

since9

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Immigrants, yes. Illegal immigrants, hell no!

After 9/11 the state law was changed to exclude legal non-citizens.

Good for SD!

Recently, the SD chapter of the ACLU challenged the law in federal court.

Of all the knuckleheaded... :banghead:

I didn't serve my country for two decades just to watch the courts hand it over lock, stock, and barrel to those who are breaking the law.
 
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OldCurlyWolf

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Immigrants, yes. Illegal immigrants, hell no!



Good for SD!



Of all the knuckleheaded... :banghead:

I didn't serve my country for two decades just to watch the courts hand it over lock, stock, and barrel to those who are breaking the law.

This one is NOT ILLEGAL, He has had a CCL for nearly 10 years. Other than the right to vote, under our laws he has nearly the same rights as a citizen, including it being legal for him to own firearms. He IS NOT breaking the law. SD changed on him in midstream.

AS for illegals, send them all home or put them in jail as needed.
 

eye95

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This one is NOT ILLEGAL, He has had a CCL for nearly 10 years. Other than the right to vote, under our laws he has nearly the same rights as a citizen, including it being legal for him to own firearms. He IS NOT breaking the law. SD changed on him in midstream.

AS for illegals, send them all home or put them in jail as needed.

Do you for a second think that the ACLU is participating in this case solely for the purpose of fighting for the right to carry for LEGAL aliens??? The ACLU couldn't care less about gun rights. This is a step on the way to normalizing ILLEGAL aliens. They just don't want to make the first case one about illegals.

BTW, States should have the authority, without federal interference, to choose which privileges they extend to non-citizen legal residents. They should have no choice on which rights they extend. They should be free to deny the privilege of concealing. They should not be able to deny the right to carry.

As I said in the other thread, the right to a license is not just oxymoronic, it is just plain moronic.

If he can carry unimpeded without a license, there is no problem. If, in order to carry, he must have a license, that requirement is the problem, not that the State won't allow him to conceal.
 

wrightme

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This is also a current issue in my neck of the woods, western SD.

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_96ab561c-1a09-11e0-b68a-001cc4c002e0.html

After 9/11 the state law was changed to exclude legal non-citizens. Recently, the SD chapter of the ACLU challenged the law in federal court.

Immigrants, yes. Illegal immigrants, hell no!

Good for SD!
"Good" for doing what? Denying legal non-citizens an otherwise legal method of Self-Defense?
since9 said:
Of all the knuckleheaded... :banghead:
Knuckleheaded? The ACLU is doing exactly what they should be doing; standing up for the Rights of those who are deserving of equal protection under the law. Why are you banging your head about that?

since9 said:
I didn't serve my country for two decades just to watch the courts hand it over lock, stock, and barrel to those who are breaking the law.
Um, this is about persons who are legal, not about persons who are illegal.
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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Do you for a second think that the ACLU is participating in this case solely for the purpose of fighting for the right to carry for LEGAL aliens??? The ACLU couldn't care less about gun rights. This is a step on the way to normalizing ILLEGAL aliens. They just don't want to make the first case one about illegals.


So, they are attempting to normalize illegal aliens through first arguing that legal aliens should have the right to a CCP? The normalization of illegal aliens and the issue of legal aliens having access to CCP's are two separate issues. I am not sure how the two relate to one another in such a way that one would beget the other.
 

RogueWarrior

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I'm a LEGAL Immigrant and in NM I can not get a NM CCW because I'm not a citizen so I have to get a Florida non resident CCW if i want to carry concealed but I'm glad that they allow open carry here
 

Gray Peterson

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Btw, to make clear here, we're talking about a permanent resident alien, not an illegal immigrant:

Say v. Adams

While aliens are a suspect class, distinctions made between different classes of aliens are not subject to strict scrutiny. For example, “classification . . . based on the legality of the alien’s presence in the country under federal law (lawful permanent resident aliens vs. illegal aliens) and/or the length of time the federal government has authorized the alien to stay in the country (permanent vs. temporary)” is not a distinction that burdens a suspect class. League of United Latin American Citizens v. Bredesen, 500 F.3d 523, 531 (6th Cir. 2007). However, K.R.S. § 237.110(4)(b) clearly makes a distinction between “citizens” and “aliens,” and not merely subclasses of aliens.
Under Supreme Court and Sixth Circuit precedent, “lawful permanent residents are the only subclass of aliens who have been treated as a suspect class.” Bredesen, 500 F.3d. at 533.
The citizenship provision allows citizens to obtain a CCDW license, and prohibits all aliens, including lawful permanent residents, from obtaining a license. On the basis of precedent binding on the Court, Plaintiff, as a lawful permanent resident of the United States, is entitled to the special protection afforded by strict scrutiny review.

So, LPR's are subject to strict scrutiny review in terms of equal protection. Citizenship gains you voting and taking political office, and being able to do certain public safety jobs, and certain sensitive government jobs. Most LPR's don't do any of those things.

Equal protection applies in various ways to all persons. If you don't agree with the idea that LPR's can carry around a piece of metal that should honestly be treated no differently than carrying a book (I thought you guys are hard core and no-compromise and all?), then you can begin the process of getting the constitution amended to reflect your beliefs. It's that simple....
 

eye95

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I'm a LEGAL Immigrant and in NM I can not get a NM CCW because I'm not a citizen so I have to get a Florida non resident CCW if i want to carry concealed but I'm glad that they allow open carry here

And that is my point: If you are allowed to carry without a permit, then it is a licensed privilege to conceal. There is no right to privileges.
 

eye95

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Btw, to make clear here, we're talking about a permanent resident alien, not an illegal immigrant...

Strawman Alert.

I just reread every post here. No one said he was an illegal immigrant. A few posts, including mine, also mentioned opinions regarding carry by illegal aliens or the ACLU's possible ulterior motive of normalizing illegal aliens.
 

Gray Peterson

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Strawman Alert.

I just reread every post here. No one said he was an illegal immigrant. A few posts, including mine, also mentioned opinions regarding carry by illegal aliens or the ACLU's possible ulterior motive of normalizing illegal aliens.

Can the state prohibit the carrying of a bible or a book to non-US citizens concealed? Can the state prohibit the possession of a bible or book inside the home of a non-US Citizen?

They can't, because it's a civil right. However, you can attack that on equal protection rather than using the underlying 1A or 2A things.

Do not treat arms possession as a second class right to the possession of books. Underlying motives or no, that is not really the issue here.
 
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