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Thread: SUSPICIONLESS STOPS - Sparks is at it again!

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    SUSPICIONLESS STOPS - Sparks is at it again!

    I'm closely following the other threads about YardSale, but thought this deserved it's own thread because it's a hot topic right now:

    http://www.rgj.com/article/20110107/NEWS/110107013


    They're conducting a "License and Registration" checkpoint on Saturday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrey123 View Post
    I'm closely following the other threads about YardSale, but thought this deserved it's own thread because it's a hot topic right now:

    http://www.rgj.com/article/20110107/NEWS/110107013


    They're conducting a "License and Registration" checkpoint on Saturday.
    My God!!!! Nevada is checkpoint happy.

    I'm glad Michigan and Rhode Island (my place of birth) have declared checkpoints unconsitutional. They are just trying to raise money. They must be worried after recalculating their pensions and seeing problems

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    Wow, sounds like a good day for open carry. Hope at least some of you make it out with cameras and guns. Sounds like Sparks is out of control and needs a dose of freedom-loving Nevadans to oppose them.
    Last edited by timf343; 01-07-2011 at 01:55 PM.

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    Your papers please...

    If anyone goes through the check point, say hey to the Gestapo for me...

    TBG

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    I've written my assemblymen and the Governor regarding these already, I'd urge anyone else to do the same. DUI checkpoints are one thing, but now it's getting worse.

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    Ummm, it's utterly and completely illegal to set up an Administrative Roadblock for the purpose of demanding identification. Isn't demanding licenses identifying the occupants?

    Quote Originally Posted by NRS 484B.570
    1. The police officers in this State may establish, in their respective jurisdictions, administrative roadblocks upon the highways of this State for any lawful purpose other than identifying the occupants of a vehicle or because of the existence of an emergency.
    This could be a trick where they don't ask for ID but instead ask other questions. Like other states that put up a Drug Checkpoint Ahead sign and wait for people to do stupid stuff near it.

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    The press release from WCSO

    I have contacted Deputy Avina and requested he get me the laws overriding the SCUTOS ruling to Terry. They have my phone number and email. I will be driving though this unlawful roadblock tomorrow and refusing to cooperate in any way shape or form.

    Here is the press release

    For Immediate Release January 7, 2011

    Sheriff’s Office to Conduct an Administrative Roadside Checkpoint



    WHEN: Saturday, January 8, 2011 from approximately 10:00 am – 2:00 pm



    WHERE: On El Rancho Drive near Weems Way, Sparks, Nevada



    CONTACT: Sergeant Michael Gross – Patrol Division/Traffic Unit

    911 Parr Blvd Reno, NV 89512

    Office 328-3350

    www.washoesheriff.com






    The Washoe County Sheriff’s Office will be conducting an Administrative Roadside Checkpoint on Saturday, January 8th from approximately 10:00 am to 2:00 pm on El Rancho Drive near Weems Way (Weems Park area). This checkpoint is being conducted to ensure that drivers are legally operating their vehicles pursuant to Nevada Law.



    While this is being conducted similarly to a DUI Checkpoint, the object of the checkpoint is to ensure operators have a valid driver’s license and have proper insurance and registration for their vehicles.



    Nevada law allows for Administrative Roadside Checkpoints to be conducted for several purposes. In addition, we will be checking for proper occupant restraint usage as well as any other violations of law.



    The Sheriff’s Office will be conducting this checkpoint using grant funds provided by the Nevada Department of Public Safety – Office of Traffic Safety.





    Deputy Armando Avina #2589

    Public Information Officer

    Office (775) 328-6370

    Cell (775) 771-8252

    Pager (775) 861-7208

    Washoe County Sheriff’s Office

    911 Parr Blvd. Reno, NV 89512

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    Taxation through Citation.
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
    -- Charles A. Beard
    XD(m) 9mm

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    @nomidlname: If you see me standing on the corner of Mccarren and El Rancho, wave to me! I've worked myself up into enough anger, I think I'll be out on the corner holding a sign to warn people of the illegal checkpoint they'll find if they turn that way.

    I'm open to company if anyone wants to come...

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomidlname View Post
    I have contacted Deputy Avina and requested he get me the laws overriding the SCUTOS ruling to Terry. They have my phone number and email. I will be driving though this unlawful roadblock tomorrow and refusing to cooperate in any way shape or form.
    Do not carry more than $100 cash. Write down vital phone numbers on your arm. Tell those people to accept your collect call from Washoe Co. jail. Tape up your recorder with gaffer's tape so they can't turn it off (or even tell what it is).

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    I think I'm up for this if we can make an impact. I'm wondering how to go about it either standing there waiving a sign maybe handing out some literature on Terry and 4A etc. How about a drive by? I have a video camera. I'm getting tired of this non sense and while I hardly ever find myself in town during a DUI. Interesting place due to no turn off in the area and not exactly a main route of travel. I mapped it and I would think the majority of people in the area would be on McCaren and Clear Acre/Sun Valley Blvd. If you want to team up let me know If you want to hold a brain strom planning session prior to I can get a meeting place in town on Keitzke.
    email Gunrunner1911@hotmail.com I'll watch Reno 4x4 as well.

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    I need your help please. I need cites of the SCOTUS rulings (or any others) that would apply to roadblocks.

    Tomorrow Washoe County Sherriff's dept is conducting an "Administrative Roadside Checkpoint"

    According to the text of the press release "This checkpoint is being conducted to ensure that drivers are legally operating their vehicles pursuant to Nevada Law. While this is being conducted similarly to a DUI Checkpoint, the object of the checkpoint is to ensure operators have a valid driver’s license and have proper insurance and registration for their vehicles."

    I will be rolling through this roadblock tomorrow while Open Carrying my lawfully owned firearm. I have a CCW as well but I feel it is necessary to stress all my rights in this instance. Hopefully I don't get killed. It is my strong belief that this roadblock is unconstitional in everyway. I will have at least one camera.

    There is a law in the NRS statute allowing this road block but I think it probably should have been repealed? Please advise if you can. If you dislike OC I understand. I don't do it very often but I think it will be appropiate for this situation. I will do everything I can to make sure everyone is safe... including myself. NRS Statute listed below. I posted this excat same request on Calguns. I asked there because I know those guys are EXTREMELY knowledgeable in case law. I ask here for the same reason. I am fearful but I feel this must be done.

    Oh yeah, I have been in contact with the deputy sherriffs. They are aware of my objections to this roadblock and are aware that I will be rolling through it. If anyone has any advise please don't hesitate to post or PM.

    NRS 484B.570 Administrative roadblock: Establishment; minimum requirements.
    1. The police officers in this State may establish, in their respective jurisdictions, administrative roadblocks upon the highways of this State for any lawful purpose other than identifying the occupants of a vehicle or because of the existence of an emergency.
    2. To warn and protect the traveling public, administrative roadblocks established by police officers must meet the following requirements:
    (a) The administrative roadblock must be established at a point on the highway clearly visible to approaching traffic at a distance of not less than 100 yards in either direction.
    (b) At the point of the administrative roadblock, a sign must be placed near the centerline of the highway displaying the word “Stop” in letters of sufficient size and luminosity to be readable at a distance of not less than 50 yards in the direction affected by the roadblock, either in daytime or darkness.
    (c) At the same point of the administrative roadblock, at least one red flashing or intermittent light, on and burning, must be placed at the side of the highway, clearly visible to the oncoming traffic at a distance of not less than 100 yards.
    (d) At a distance of not less than one-quarter of a mile from the point of the administrative roadblock, warning signs must be placed at the side of the highway, containing any wording of sufficient size and luminosity to warn the oncoming traffic that a “police stop” lies ahead. A burning beam light, flare or lantern must be placed near the signs to attract the attention of the traffic to the sign.
    (Added to NRS by 1969, 1495; A 1987, 1073)—(Substituted in revision for NRS 484.359)


    NRS 484B.577 Authority of police officers not limited by provisions relating to roadblocks. The provisions of NRS 484B.570 and 484B.573 do not limit the existing authority of police officers in the performance of their duties involving traffic control.
    (Added to NRS by 1987, 1073)—(Substituted in revision for NRS 484.3593)


    NRS 484B.580 Failure to stop at roadblock; penalties.
    1. It is unlawful for a person to:
    (a) Proceed or travel through an administrative roadblock or a temporary roadblock without subjecting himself or herself to the traffic control established at the roadblock.
    (b) Disobey the lawful orders or directions of a police officer at an administrative roadblock or a temporary roadblock.
    2. A person who unlawfully proceeds through an administrative roadblock or a temporary roadblock shall be punished:
    (a) If the person is the direct cause of a death or substantial bodily harm to any person, or damage to property in excess of $1,000, for a category B felony by imprisonment in the state prison for a minimum term of not less than 1 year and a maximum term of not more than 6 years, or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or by both fine and imprisonment.
    (b) If no death, substantial bodily harm or damage to property in excess of $1,000 occurs, for a gross misdemeanor.
    (Added to NRS by 1987, 1073; A 1995, 1298)—(Substituted in revision for NRS 484.3595)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomidlname View Post
    I need your help please. I need cites of the SCOTUS rulings (or any others) that would apply to roadblocks.
    TERRY V. OHIO, 392 U. S. 1 (1968)
    ALMEIDA-SANCHEZ v. UNITED STATES, 413 U.S. 266 (1973)
    UNITED STATES V. BRIGNONI-PONCE, 422 U. S. 873 (1975)
    UNITED STATES v. ORTIZ, 422 U.S. 891 (1975)
    UNITED STATES V. MARTINEZ-FUERTE, 428 U. S. 543 (1976)
    DELAWARE V. PROUSE, 440 U. S. 648 (1979)
    MICHIGAN STATE POLICE V. SITZ, 496 U. S. 444 (1990)

    I suggest not arguing SCOTUS case law with deputies. Cops know department policy, not law, and not case law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    TERRY V. OHIO, 392 U. S. 1 (1968)
    ALMEIDA-SANCHEZ v. UNITED STATES, 413 U.S. 266 (1973)
    UNITED STATES V. BRIGNONI-PONCE, 422 U. S. 873 (1975)
    UNITED STATES v. ORTIZ, 422 U.S. 891 (1975)
    UNITED STATES V. MARTINEZ-FUERTE, 428 U. S. 543 (1976)
    DELAWARE V. PROUSE, 440 U. S. 648 (1979)
    MICHIGAN STATE POLICE V. SITZ, 496 U. S. 444 (1990)

    I suggest not arguing SCOTUS case law with deputies. Cops know department policy, not law, and not case law.
    Thank you Yardsale. I will go through those tomight and make a final decision on how this is going to go down.

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    Hmmm.... reading through the list of cases Yardsale provided shows that nothing quite like this has been challenged before. which is probably why they are doing it. I think what I have to do is record them verbally forcing me to comply. Sadly I can't afford to be arrested right now. A year ago no problem but now I don't even have money for bail.

    So, I think what I will do is the same thing as UOC'er do in California. Ask them if they are asking me or commanding me under threat of harm. Once I get them to admit that if I do not comply then I will come to harm then I think I have a case. Then I have to find a lawyer who will take my case for no money up front. The lawyer can get the winnings as long as we get the law corrected.

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    license checkpoints are established legal roadblocks

    They just seem questionable in Nevada.

    The way you think it will play out in your head and the way it actually plays out may be completely different. I was prepared for a roadblock stop based on the way my Feb.7 roadblock stop went down. (Remained silent, ordered to secondary, ordered out of the vehicle.) But it turned out in the Dec. 18 roadblock stop they tried to enter my vehicle immediately and then started making crazy demands.

    Bail for obstructing an officer is $432, IIRC, but you may get released OR if you have no prior arrests and roots in the community. My vehicle impound fees were $401.50.

    Perhaps something useful would be measuring the distance from the warning sign to the traffic control device and noting that and all the other legal requirements of a roadblock.

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    has anyone attempted to contact the ACLU before this Nazi inspection point begins?

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    Deleted by Citizen. (I finally got down to post #15.)
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-08-2011 at 12:40 AM.

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    If you do go through the checkpoint, no matter what, ask for a name and badge number of the officer interrogating you, ask for a supervisor, and ask for a copy of the internal affairs procedure so you can file a formal complaint.

    But whether SCOTUS allows these types of checkpoints is irrelevant. Someone posted the relevant NRS already. State law prohibits roadblocks for the purpose of identifying the occupants of a vehicle. I'd say that pretty much outlaws checking to make sure your driver license is valid, as well as any other document that may have your name on it. This is not legal advice, and whether you cooperate is entirely your call.

    Either way, show up, park legally, and take LOTS of photos and videos. Hold up signs such as WARNING: Checkpoint Ahead....or FILE YOUR CHECKPOINT COMPLAINT HERE....or Honk If You Hate Checkpoints...if you are so inclined. Invite others to join you. And by all means, open carry.

    Some tips:

    Don't engage police in conversation for any purpose
    Don't try to talk to occupants of other vehicles while they're being interrogated
    DO take some internal affairs complaint forms and hand them out to anyone who wants them
    DO invite the press and encourage them to question the cops on the legality of the checkpoint
    Last edited by timf343; 01-08-2011 at 01:00 AM. Reason: speeling ;-)

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    Thanks Tim. I agree the law is clear and has been on the books for a long time. I am not sure that means clearly established since I have never seen an administrative check point used in the 25 years I've been living in Nevada. Maybe they use them in clark county a lot?

    My goal won't be to challange the authority of the law at the check point but to establish their goal of oppresion under the law and then file a law suiit if a lawyer is willing.

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    You have got to be kididng me. I live in Vegas and I am calling and throwing a **** fit.

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    No one is seeing my ID or any other papers. End of story.

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    Just because the NRS specifically allows it, and there hasn't been a federal court case specifically upholding it (nor denying it), doesn't mean it's Constitutionally kosher.

    DWI checkpoints/roadblocks have been allowed by SCOTUS because they found an overwhelming need for public safety, which offset your 4A rights.

    Since a lack of insurance or license or registration doesn't create an immediate danger to other motorists, there is no basis to overcome the 4A limits. Being "seized" for the duration of these stops, absent either PC or overriding necessity, won't fly.

    Of course, you're going to need several years and at least a quarter million bucks worth of legal counsel to get SCOTUS to agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Just because the NRS specifically allows it, and there hasn't been a federal court case specifically upholding it (nor denying it), doesn't mean it's Constitutionally kosher.

    DWI checkpoints/roadblocks have been allowed by SCOTUS because they found an overwhelming need for public safety, which offset your 4A rights.

    Since a lack of insurance or license or registration doesn't create an immediate danger to other motorists, there is no basis to overcome the 4A limits. Being "seized" for the duration of these stops, absent either PC or overriding necessity, won't fly.

    Of course, you're going to need several years and at least a quarter million bucks worth of legal counsel to get SCOTUS to agree.
    Actually this type of check point was specifically mentioned in the ruling of DELAWARE V. PROUSE, 440 U. S. 648 (1979). While the case had nothing to do with check points the ruling specifically metions license check points as a possible lawful option. Which is basically SCOTUS telling law enforcement to go ahead and put up road blocks.

    It doesn't appear that the video I would have obtained would help in any way because of this. It really sucks that our 4th amedment rights have been stript away to nothing. Unfortunately, there's not much I can do except write the Nevada legislators and hope they do the right thing.
    Last edited by nomidlname; 01-10-2011 at 11:38 AM.

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    So how'd it go folks? Anyone holding up signs? Open carrying? Any harassment from LE?

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