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Thread: Confused!

  1. #1
    Regular Member r1dramma's Avatar
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    Confused!

    I was just told by someone @ the Meck Sheriffs office, that if you don't have a CHP or any PP's and someone gifts you a handgun your good to go for open carry! Did I miss something?

    Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away,
    transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the state, any pistol, unless the purchaser or receiver
    has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the sheriff of the county where the
    purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver possesses a valid North Carolina-issued
    concealed carry permit. This requirement to obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies
    not only to a commercial transaction, typically at a sporting goods store, but also between private
    individuals or companies throughout North Carolina. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-402(a)

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    First, there's a difference between 'own' and 'posess'. You can carry a weapon that you only possess, and do not own.

    Second, we don't have registration in NC. So though there is a law against sales, even private sales, without the CHP or PPP, they can't really prove that you've done anything wrong.

    Clear as mud?
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    Regular Member r1dramma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    First, there's a difference between 'own' and 'posess'. You can carry a weapon that you only possess, and do not own.

    Second, we don't have registration in NC. So though there is a law against sales, even private sales, without the CHP or PPP, they can't really prove that you've done anything wrong.

    Clear as mud?
    Ok thanks I understand now. A friend was gifted a handgun and I was confused at what to tell her when she asked, if it was ok to open carry since she didn't have a CHP or PP's .

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I would get very educated before OCing. I was going to list a few points for her to remember, but there is too much to try to put into a very brief post. She should learn about where she can/cannot carry, and at least as important, how to deal with LE if she is stopped.
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
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    Regular Member r1dramma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    I would get very educated before OCing. I was going to list a few points for her to remember, but there is too much to try to put into a very brief post. She should learn about where she can/cannot carry, and at least as important, how to deal with LE if she is stopped.
    Yes sir that is true, I have told her to do a lot of research aswell as to sign up on here!

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    Taking advice on laws from a police officer is a good way to get yourself arrested.

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    Regular Member r1dramma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mekender View Post
    Taking advice on laws from a police officer is a good way to get yourself arrested.
    Who is taking advise from a police officer?

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    Regular Member elixin77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1dramma View Post
    Who is taking advise from a police officer?
    I was just told by someone @ the Meck Sheriffs office, that if you don't have a CHP or any PP's and someone gifts you a handgun your good to go for open carry! Did I miss something?
    case and point.

    politely listen to what an officer has to say (even record it if you can), and then let the NC bar association know whats going on. They'll put a stop to it.
    Taurus PT1911 .45 ACP. Carried in condition 1, with a total of 25 rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mekender View Post
    Taking advice on laws from a police officer is a good way to get yourself arrested.
    ^yea what he said

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    Second, we don't have registration in NC. So though there is a law against sales, even private sales, without the CHP or PPP, they can't really prove that you've done anything wrong.
    Careful, there "Sultan62". You're treading dangerously close to breaking Forum Rule #15:

    (15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.


    Quote Originally Posted by sultan62 View Post
    So though there is a law against sales, even private sales, without the CHP or PPP, they can't really prove that you've done anything wrong.
    Actually, they can. If an LEO goes to the person who sold you a handgun, and that person can't produce a HPP or copy of a CHP, then both the buyer and seller are in violation of NCGC 52A §14-402:

    Article 52A. Sale of Weapons in Certain Counties
    14-402 Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol or crossbow unless a license or permit therefor has first been obtained by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which that purchaser or receiver resides.
    It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to receive from any postmaster, postal clerk,
    employee in the parcel post department, rural mail carrier, express agent or employee, railroad agent or employee within the State of North Carolina any pistol or crossbow without having in his or their possession and without exhibiting at the time of the delivery of the same and to the person delivering the same the permit from the
    sheriff as provided in G.S. 14-403. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-07-2011 at 09:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1dramma View Post
    Who is taking advise from a police officer?
    Pretty sure you said you spoke with someone in the sheriff's office... So either they were a sworn officer or a clerk of some sort... You might have gotten better advice from a clerk though.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mekender View Post
    You might have gotten better advice from a clerk though.
    NEVER ask legal advice from someone in a uniform or sitting behind a government desk--if they don't know, most of them will just make it up based on their own opinions, and VERY few LEOs actually know the State Firearms Statutes.

    Heck, even our own State Attorney General--who is a Bar-certified lawyer and gets PAID to understand the statutes--lies and makes stuff up based on his personal biases, and the anti-gun agenda of his boss, Gov. Perdue...

    Look up the law. It's not hard to find--NC has it's General Statutes on the State Government website...

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascript...s/statutes.asp
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-07-2011 at 11:13 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Actually, they can. If an LEO goes to the person who sold you a handgun, and that person can't produce a HPP or copy of a CHP, then both the buyer and seller are in violation of NCGC 52A §14-402:
    Not quite. That statute says that the purchaser needs the permit. It says nothing of the seller getting a copy of said permit. I've never turned one over for a private sale. Neither do I ask for copies. Only when buying from an FFL. They may be required to SEE the PPP or CHP. But the seller is not required to keep any records for a private transaction.

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    What if you loan someone a gun such as a father loaning a gun to his daughter? It may be a permanent loan such as I am not planning on taking it back unless I find a better one for you but I still claim ownership of the gun seeing as there is not gun registration.

    Second question is that how about if the Father lives in one state and the child lives in NC but it is still considered a loan between the parent and child. The loaning a guns is the part that always confuses me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    What if you loan someone a gun such as a father loaning a gun to his daughter? It may be a permanent loan such as I am not planning on taking it back unless I find a better one for you but I still claim ownership of the gun seeing as there is not gun registration.

    Second question is that how about if the Father lives in one state and the child lives in NC but it is still considered a loan between the parent and child. The loaning a guns is the part that always confuses me.
    If your Daughter is over 21 ownership really should not matter unless it is reported stolen.... Now if she can't possess/own a firearm because of a felony or legal issue, dont give her a gun.... If she can possess/own than just give her the $5 for the PPP wait for it to go through and gift it too her....
    Last edited by muccione; 01-08-2011 at 11:44 AM. Reason: more info

  16. #16
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muccione View Post
    If she can possess/own than just give her the $5 for the PPP wait for it to go through and gift it too her....

    In most NC counties, it really IS that simple...

    But I recently found out that Robeson County has some REALLY weird add-on requirements for getting a HPP. On top of the form to fill out, and the background checks, Robeson County requires that the purchaser gets 3 LEOs to sign off on their HPP application. There is no place on the form for them to sign, and no indication that this is required. The LEOs have to go to the Robeson Co. Sheriff's office AFTER you submit the permit and sign off on it for you.

    It's actually easier to get a CHP in Robeson Co. than it is to get an HPP...

    NC needs to either force the Counties to standardize their HPP procedures, or abolish the HPP program altogether. Stuff like this Robeson County policy is just ridiculous.

    "Jim Crow" must die...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 01-08-2011 at 12:11 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    I seem to recall that there is a 30 day maximum allowed between request and issuance/denial of a PPP. Is this correct?
    "They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band
    It ain't what they call rock and roll
    And the Sultans...
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    Only my opinion, but I seem to recall that a PPP is required for a sale, inheritance, or gift. Maybe I'm mistaken.

    "...it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away,transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the state, any pistol, unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides..."

    If she's a PERSON and she RECEIVES the weapon and she is in NORTH CAROLINA then she needs a PPP. Even if it's a death inheritance. "In addition, this State law has been interpreted to require that a pistol permit be obtained by the receiver of a handgun when such person inherits a pistol as a result of the death of another person."

    That statute says that the purchaser needs the permit. It says nothing of the seller getting a copy of said permit.
    "The permit should be given to and retained by the seller or donor of the handgun. In such a case, the permit should be given to the executor or receiver of the estate of the deceased person.

    Look at it this way: Whether you decide to get a PPP from the receiver or not, what happens years down the road when the gun is stolen or sold and/or used in a crime? The manufacturer connects it to the dealer who connects it to you who connects it to......um, nobody.
    I sold a Makarov a few months back and got a PPP from the buyer, whom I have known all my life, and who is an upstanding and honest guy. What if he loans it to his daughter who loans it to the guy (who looks just like me on the poor quality grainy video) who robs the local convenient store?
    Me, I got a PPP dated with the serial No. and weapon make/model.
    You, well, you got what you got.

    Not trying to be a smart-aqq, but I guess my years in the military taught me to CYA.
    *cited from http://www.grnc.org/firearms.htm
    Last edited by NCjones; 01-17-2011 at 12:41 AM. Reason: reference quotes

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    Look at it another way, IF you are required by law to keep the permit in a private sale... Then how come there are no statutory requirements to do so or to establish LEO inspection times or storage requirements like there are with FFLs?

    The simple answer is that there are no requirements because the law does not require you to keep the permit unless you are a FFL.

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