OC Lunch at Red Robin in Redondo Beach, CA 1/8/2011

A few of us are getting together for lunch at Red Robin at the Galleria Mall tomorrow at noon.

We'd be happy to have anyone here join us open carrying.

http://www.southbayopencarry.org/events/

Ended up getting kicked out by the police (despite never being asked to leave by restaurant management or mall staff). So we rolled over to Ruby's Diner and had a nice lunch there.

Charles did a little write up.

http://www.examiner.com/la-in-los-angeles/mall-cops-ban-open-carry-at-redondo-beach-galleria

It was the same jerk cop from this incident:
http://www.southbayopencarry.org/2010/12/13/redondo-beach-e-check-learning-experience/

It appears he learned his lesson, didn't demand ID or try to run serials this time, but he had a bad attitude.

Did the LEO indicate who it was that was asking you to leave? Was it the LEO because he received a citizen's call (if that's the case, what is his basis for the tresspass threat)? Or was it someone acting on behalf of the mall owner? Or was it just because he said so?

Did you ask who was asking you to leave under threat of tresspass?

Did you record? If so, could you post the recording?

Too bad you got kicked out.

The officer claimed mall security asked him to kick us out. But I'm not sure the legal ramifications since we were technically indoors on private property when he came in and demanded we go outside. Not once were we individually asked by any mall representative or restaurant representative to leave, they were literally grabbing the menus to seat us when the cop showed up. Unfortunately, I'm not a legal expert by any means and trespassing law is not something I've studied like open carry law so I was in no position to argue with the guy this time.

Its really a pain in the ass to feel like you have to walk around with a lawyer just to be a law abiding citizen in Redondo Beach.

Videos are on our FB page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/South-Bay-Open-Carry/122802434426757

1) Higher audio but shorter recording:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=949712790825&oid=122802434426757&comments&ref=mf

2) My backup video recorder held by someone else:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=949723559245&oid=122802434426757&comments&ref=mf

It all depends on the terms and conditions stated in the lease agreement with the mall property owner. I would have asked for the restaurant manager and had him decide whether or not you could have stayed and spent money there. The officer would then potentially have had to decide who he would side with...the mall or the restaurant.

well,,,

some thoughts,,,,

im still really proud of your accomplishments there in calif. you have done a great job of carrying our 2A rights forward!
i was saddened that 1 of the guys spent so much time schooling the cop on how to make his holster work, so he could be E-violated!
should have kept quiet, let the cop get frustrated! maybe give up.
its not your job to help. would have looked really good in a complaint report!

also,, the cops are NOT allowed to be the ones to tell you to leave!
the business is responsible to tell you youre not welcome, then if you refuse
to leave, they can call a cop to enforce their directive!

Just checked the mall's website, and found this little tidbit:

>Firearms, or weapons of any kind, are not permitted on property unless specific permission has been granted by property management. <

Did anyone bother to check the mall's rules when this event was set up?

Also, please cite your source for where Cops are not allowed to tell you to leave, that it has to be the business. I agree that it's ridiculous that the mall security and/or management couldn't have just approached you, instead of calling the cops. But they did, and decided to let the cops eject you. Me and some fellow open carriers went through a similar situation about 2 years ago at Parkway Plaza mall. Except they snagged us as we were exiting the mall at closing time.

The Nomadd said:

Did anyone bother to check the mall's rules when this event was set up?

Click to expand...

No law is broken by breaking a mall CoC so since all our activities are within the law, there is no reason why someone should have to find that information and get permission from every lackey before exercising a constitutionally protected right.

Before we OC in CA we just have to lookout for the school zones. My experience has been that if you call and ask permission you always get a negative, if you just show up and appear professional, they will accept you (except this one time, although still don't know if indeed the mall wanted us gone, or the cop just told them he wanted us gone).

The ban on firearms or CoC is not posted on the door coming into the restaurant we were going to, so none of us were intentionally violating the CoC. Just going to a place to eat where we had eaten while OCing many times before.

I personally and several others have OC'd at the mall many times in the past with NO problems, so why would we think it would be any different last weekend?

Since it is the same cop as last months encounter and based on his angry demeanor it seems he made it a personal mission to expel us from the mall. The restaurant staff were literally seating us when he demanded we all go outside, so definitely not them who called to have us ejected.


(Side note, it looks like the mall treats this cop every time he harasses OCers since several people reported seeing him enjoying an ice-cream standing outside the restaurant he ejected us from as we drove away. We should have offered to buy him lunch!)

Sorry to hear you guys got jammed up. Guess that's one more anti-2A place to cross off my list.

The Nomadd said:

Also, please cite your source for where Cops are not allowed to tell you to leave, that it has to be the business.

Click to expand...

It is my understanding that in the situation described in the thread that the LEO can ask you to leave at the request of the owner, the owner's agent, or the person in lawful possession. My reading of PC 602(o) is that 1) without this request from one of these individuals or 2) without the LEO's statement to you that he/she is acting at the request of one of these, you are not "trespassing" if you refuse to leave at the request of the LEO. (IANAL)

PC 602:

Except as provided in subdivision (u), subdivision (v), subdivision (x), and Section 602.8, every person who willfully commits a trespass by any of the following acts is guilty of a misdemeanor:

you sure about that?

SonsofLiberty,

That section applies to land "not normally open to the general public". A eating establishment is just the opposite.

May be a CALL to his police chief is warranted by Mr Green., especially if you have both videos. Eating a free ice cream after throwing a group of paying customers out of a eatery would be greatly discouraged to the police department brass as conduct unbecoming an officer. If you are getting the same officer jerking you around several times , I am sure the Police Chief does not want to be eating ice cream himself outside a federal civil rights courtroom defending his department, and will deal with his little problem child before something gets out of hand..

hgreen said:

Ended up getting kicked out by the police (despite never being asked to leave by restaurant management or mall staff). So we rolled over to Ruby's Diner and had a nice lunch there.

Charles did a little write up.

http://www.examiner.com/la-in-los-angeles/mall-cops-ban-open-carry-at-redondo-beach-galleria

It was the same jerk cop from this incident:
http://www.southbayopencarry.org/2010/12/13/redondo-beach-e-check-learning-experience/

It appears he learned his lesson, didn't demand ID or try to run serials this time, but he had a bad attitude.

Click to expand...

Not surprising. Red Robin is a GFCZ, didn't you know that? Corporate Policy.

:cuss:

OldCurlyWolf said:

Not surprising. Red Robin is a GFCZ, didn't you know that? Corporate Policy.

:cuss:

Click to expand...

Again, we don't go doing background investigations on where we want to go eat lunch. If its not in a school zone, meaning breaking the law, we go.

I ate across the walkway from that Red Robin at the CPK which I know has a GFCZ policy, but they were welcoming and thanked two of us who OC'd for being there.

Corporate policy does not always mean local managers are anti OC.

Again, the restaurant staff was literally seating us when the cop rolled in, does not seem like they are the ones who called him over.

oc4ever said:

SonsofLiberty,

That section applies to land "not normally open to the general public". A eating establishment is just the opposite.

Click to expand...

I also had some questions about that phrase, but I'm pretty sure that you would be charged under PC 602(o). It's my understanding (IANAL) that the position that they take to charge you is that a mall is "private property" whereby you are given "permission" to do business which at any time can be revoked. Therefore, the mall is not normally open to the general public, but you enter with permission because the owners have defined it this way.

I have been wrong occassionally...(I know a quick way to find out what you would be charged under, but I have yet to find someone to volunteer. )

Here's the local news article on the event:
http://www.easyreadernews.com/2011/01/redondo-beach-news/open-carry

(I did not say clip in the interview, you'll notice its not "quoted", so he is paraphrasing inaccurately).

Otherwise a pretty neutral article. I think only because a lot of people in the city don't like this Officer Grimm fella, otherwise they would never have bothered running it.

I like the city attorney's quoted statement at the end of the article..."But it is an evolving area." CYA speak for "we're going to keep on violating open carriers rights until someone makes us stop."

i think redondo pd needs to have more videos of them posted on youtube

Here is my full writeup of the event:
http://www.southbayopencarry.org/2011/01/12/sboc-members-ejected-from-mall-by-rogue-police-officer/