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Thread: Baltimore Off-duty Cops spray bullets breaking up barfight...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Baltimore Off-duty Cops spray bullets breaking up barfight...

    Two people dead including one off-duty BPD officer. Six others wounded. Shots fired were all by cops. First "friendly fire" LE death in Baltimore since 2008.

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...0,827574.story


    Great training, BPD--using lethal force to break up a bar scuffle.

    2011 is looking to be a real record-breaker for MD.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    Pending further information....

    Oy.....

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    According to an article on the Baltimore Sun's website, eye-witnesses say that the scuffle was STARTED by an off-duty BPD officer who was acting aggressively toward a female patron.

    When the citizen who was killed stepped in to get the cop to back off, the cop drew and fired, then six other uniformed BPD who were also on the scene, opened fire indiscriminately into the crowd...

    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news...verreacte.html


    What's the difference between Jared Loughner and a Baltimore cop?

    Loughner's friends aren't colluding to cover his ass...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    According to an article on the Baltimore Sun's website, eye-witnesses say that the scuffle was STARTED by an off-duty BPD officer who was acting aggressively toward a female patron.

    When the citizen who was killed stepped in to get the cop to back off, the cop drew and fired, then six other uniformed BPD who were also on the scene, opened fire indiscriminately into the crowd...

    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news...verreacte.html


    What's the difference between Jared Loughner and a Baltimore cop?

    Loughner's friends aren't colluding to cover his ass...
    A cop pulls his gun because someone is trying to stop him from harassing a woman. Trigger happy Baltimore Storm Troopers start shooting into a crowd killing him and an unarmed man who appears to be completely innocent of any criminal activity. Mayor Susie, or whatever the **** her name is, was hoping no cops got killed that day. Sounds like the lunatic asylum that MD has become. Sounds like an easy solution: take the guns away from the cops.

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    Most of the info being released is consistent--the off duty cop was harassing a female when a male patron came to her defense. An altercation started between the 2 men causing the cop to lose his police ID from his person. He drew his weapon but there is no record of him firing; the Baltimore PD that arrived saw him with a weapon in the midst of a fight and opened fire, killing the off duty cop and the man trying to protect the female. So far the reports are that only Baltimore PD fired weapons

    Doesn't look good for the Baltimore PD (again!).

  6. #6
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    New story in the Baltimore Sun gives more details--the more we know, the ore appalling this story becomes...

    Police Commissioner Frederick H. Bealefeld III confirmed at an afternoon news conference that no civilian weapons were fired, and said five officers — including slain officer William H. Torbit Jr. — fired a total of 41 rounds during the incident.
    Torbit waded into a rowdy crowd, started shoving people around trying to break up the fights, DID NOT IDENTIFY HIMSELF as a cop, and was in plainclothes and did not have his badge prominently displayed. You can imagine what happened next...

    When Torbit produced his firearm to defend himself from the pressing and increasingly rowdy crowd, other uniformed police opened fire, not realizing he was one of them...

    Great training, communications, and situational awareness, BPD...

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...009,full.story


    If Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake wants to make Baltimore safer, she'd take the guns, tazers and nightsticks away from the cops, and just let the do the only thing they are apparently qualified to do--write parking tickets...

    One of my daughters goes to college in Baltimore. I may just buy her some Kevlar for her birthday...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 04-07-2011 at 04:02 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    [Note to self. Plan all travel through Maryland to go around Baltimore.]

    Reminds me of the shooting a few years ago on I395 in Alexandria, just south of Washington DC. Some road rage or fuss involving a bad guy and some ATF agents. The vehicles pulled over. The bad guy pops a few shots at the ATF in the car behind him. The ATF poppped a number of shots at the bad guy. No hits on bad guy. He drove off.

    OK. Now, where exactly did those ATF rounds go? It seems a minor miracle nobody driving on I395 was hit.
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-11-2011 at 03:16 AM.

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    That is just insane. Two killed, six wounded, police involved immediately leaving the scene. The crime scene being left open and not secured as well as no help to the other deceased for possibly thirty minutes. 41 rounds being fired and what appears to be an excessive amount into someone who has already been shot and is on the ground.

    8 people killed or wounded by this crazy outpouring of gunfire around a crowd? The title of these news stories could easily be "Gang Shooting in Baltimore leaves 2 dead and 6 injured", because it sounds alot like it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The gunmen who sprayed an unarmed crowd with bullets during a bar scuffle in Baltimore, killing an innocent citizen and an off-duty BPD officer have been named:

    Harry Dodge, 37
    Harry Pawley, 40
    Toyia Wiliams, 36
    Latora Craig, 30

    http://www.wbaltv.com/news/26427374/detail.html


    The officer who was killed was struck with 20 bullets, of the 41 total rounds fired, according to the coroner's report...

    http://www.wbaltv.com/news/26453680/detail.html


    According to the MSP representative who testified at the HB-52 hearing in Jan 2010 (concealed carry reciprocity with contiguous states), it is the opinion of MSP that the ONLY people who are trustworthy enough to carry in the state of MD are police officers.

    How's that working out for you, Superintendent Sheridan?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The gunmen who sprayed an unarmed crowd with bullets during a bar scuffle in Baltimore, killing an innocent citizen and an off-duty BPD officer have been named:

    Harry Dodge, 37
    Harry Pawley, 40
    Toyia Wiliams, 36
    Latora Craig, 30

    http://www.wbaltv.com/news/26427374/detail.html


    The officer who was killed was struck with 20 bullets, of the 41 total rounds fired, according to the coroner's report...

    http://www.wbaltv.com/news/26453680/detail.html


    According to the MSP representative who testified at the HB-52 hearing in Jan 2010 (concealed carry reciprocity with contiguous states), it is the opinion of MSP that the ONLY people who are trustworthy enough to carry in the state of MD are police officers.

    How's that working out for you, Superintendent Sheridan?
    It's not like Maryland is a real place.

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    Instead of banning so-called "high capacity" magazines, it sounds like we should regulate the number of Baltimore cops who can gather together anywhere, anytime. Since this is a public safety issue, it should be in the criminal statutes.

    Proposed statute:

    "842-761 No more than two police officers may congregate at any public or private location for any private or official purpose, excepting police stations, police union meetings, court appearances, and donut shops.

    A violation of this chapter shall be a felony punishable by 1 year in prison and $3000 fine.

    It shall be an affirmative defense if the third and later arriving officers can prove they were unarmed, or the assembled officers can prove they had no more than 15 rounds of ammunition combined among them. A taser shall count as 10 rounds. A baton as 8 rounds. A personnel record with any complaints of rights violations as 7 rounds."
    Last edited by Citizen; 01-13-2011 at 06:46 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Instead of banning so-called "high capacity" magazines, it sounds like we should regulate the number of Baltimore cops who can gather together anywhere, anytime. Since this is a public safety issue, it should be in the criminal statutes.

    Proposed statute:

    "842-761 No more than two police officers may congregate at any public or private location for any private or official purpose, excepting police stations, police union meetings, court appearances, and donut shops.

    A violation of this chapter shall be a felony punishable by 1 year in prison and $3000 fine.

    It shall be an affirmative defense if the third and later arriving officers can prove they were unarmed, or the assembled officers can prove they had no more than 15 rounds of ammunition combined among them. A taser shall count as 10 rounds. A baton as 8 rounds. A personnel record with any complaints of rights violations as 7 rounds."
    Let me paraphrase one of my favorite quotes:

    'We must take the guns from the cops to make the streets safe for the people.'

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    First "friendly fire" LE death in Baltimore since 2008.
    First since 2008? Is it wrong that makes me snicker?
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-14-2011 at 01:38 PM.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Instead of banning so-called "high capacity" magazines, it sounds like we should regulate the number of Baltimore cops who can gather together anywhere, anytime. Since this is a public safety issue, it should be in the criminal statutes.

    Proposed statute:

    "842-761 No more than two police officers may congregate at any public or private location for any private or official purpose, excepting police stations, police union meetings, court appearances, and donut shops.

    A violation of this chapter shall be a felony punishable by 1 year in prison and $3000 fine.

    It shall be an affirmative defense if the third and later arriving officers can prove they were unarmed, or the assembled officers can prove they had no more than 15 rounds of ammunition combined among them. A taser shall count as 10 rounds. A baton as 8 rounds. A personnel record with any complaints of rights violations as 7 rounds."


    The scary part is, that, though meant in jest, would benefit this country or any given state far more than a majority of the laws on the books, and a great majority of proposed legislation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Let me paraphrase one of my favorite quotes:

    'We must take the guns from the cops to make the streets safe for the people.'
    So I've been saying and will continue to say unless it happens. At this point I won't be satisfied by anything less -- even an across-the-board attempt at better behavior. Misbehavior must be punished. At this point a punishment is due and it's way too late to say sorry and act nice. Maybe then it will be meaningful to talk about punishing individual offenders -- the mythical "bad apples" (not that individual offenders should escape punishment now; only that they will).
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-14-2011 at 01:46 PM.

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    Its crazy that this has hardly got any media attention outside of Baltimore itself. I talked to my mom who lives in a nearby county last night and she hadn't heard anything about it. I wonder if there is video that captured it.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The Police Union is now accusing the Mayor of Baltimore of trying to use this shooting tragedy for her own political gain, because she's called for an investigation...

    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news...ims_mayor.html


    Sick, just sick... The four badged gunmen will most likely be let off with slaps on the wrist. The dead cop's surviving family will be granted a large payout to keep them quiet. All the rest of the victims, if historical precedent holds, will be left with nothing but fear, injury, and sorrow, and will have to file Federal suits to get ANYTHING, and then if they ARE awarded anything, will be sworn to secrecy and the files ordered sealed as part of the settlement.

    Baltimore IS like the streets of Fallujah, but the BPD has it all backwards. It's the BPD who should be viewed as the insurgents, not the citizens of Charm City...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 04-07-2011 at 04:19 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The Police Union is now accusing the Mayor of Baltimore of trying to use this shooting tragedy for her own political gain, because she's called for an investigation...

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    So much for the FREESTATE

    How can a state that doesn't even recognize the rights given by the constitution be called the free state. Don't the words SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED UPON mean anything?

  19. #19
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    How is that Total Warrior thing working for your PD Baltimore?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  20. #20
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Baltimore city officials have approved $75,000 in CITY FUNDS to pay for an inquiry into Officer Torbit's shooting.

    Somehow, I think that money would be better spent if it were just given to Sean Gamble's family, as a token of remorse and apology. (he was an innocent bystander caught in the crossfire who was killed).

    Members of the investigative panel include former Maryland Attorney General and U.S. Attorney Steve Sachs (who was a major contributor to Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake's last campaign).

    Also on the panel is Hubert Williams, who chairs the Police Foundation, an LE-related think tank. Williams also sat on the panel that investigated the LAPD's response during the LA Riots of 1992, so you KNOW this guy is unbiased...

    Another member of the panel is Mr. Darrel Stephens, who is on the faculty at Johns Hopkins University in the Division of Public Safety Leadership and Executive Director of the Major Cities Chiefs Association. His law enforcement career has also included LE service in such civil-rights-respecting LEAs as the Kansas City, MO Police Department where he served as an officer, sergeant, and unit commander. He served as the Police Chief for Newport News, VA, St. Petersburg, FL, and Charlotte-Mecklenburg, NC, also known as paragons of LE fairness, and well-know for their lack of corruption and absence of police brutality, false arrests, and color-of-law abuses of power. So you know THIS cat is completely unbiased when it comes to keep cops in line...


    And a cast of other similar "players" make up this panel...

    I think we can all rest assured that justice will be served...

    But the People will, most likely, be left holding the bill, scrambling for scraps, and nursing their wounds...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 04-07-2011 at 04:18 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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