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Thread: Standing around with a gun on your hip...

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    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    Standing around with a gun on your hip...

    So recently with this cold weather, I have not been OCing. This is probably why I have not been frequenting the boards as of late. Anyways, I was thinking about OC the other day when I was at Fred Meyer with my wife. She usually uses the restroom there, and I got to thinking: How odd would this look if I had been OCing.

    My question is this: What type of reactions have you received from standing around with your gun? Standing outside a restroom? Standing in a church hallway? Waiting for a friend at a restaurant?

    With the recent arrests of citizens who have been found guilty of "warranting alarm," I wonder how YOU prepare yourself for times when you will be standing around with a gun on your hip.

    Joe~

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joejoejoe View Post
    So recently with this cold weather, I have not been OCing. This is probably why I have not been frequenting the boards as of late. Anyways, I was thinking about OC the other day when I was at Fred Meyer with my wife. She usually uses the restroom there, and I got to thinking: How odd would this look if I had been OCing.

    My question is this: What type of reactions have you received from standing around with your gun? Standing outside a restroom? Standing in a church hallway? Waiting for a friend at a restaurant?

    With the recent arrests of citizens who have been found guilty of "warranting alarm," I wonder how YOU prepare yourself for times when you will be standing around with a gun on your hip.

    Joe~
    Well only one citizen has been found guilty of 'warranting alarm' and only in Vancouver, WA.

    But you are very wise to draw together the conclusion from both Josh's trial and Kirby's deal. Both were 'loitering' around a business with an openly carried firearm in Vancouver. Generally, I don't just hang around while I OC. I continue to shop or go about my business. This was the same before I OC'd and was a CCer. Note that both Josh and Kirby were outside of the business when ticketed.

    My suggestion is to not loiter outside of a business while OC in Vancouver. Go inside and shop.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    It's legal...

    My general attitude is to carry and go about my business in relatively the same manner whether or not I am armed. Unless it is a unlawful to carry in a particular place or manner, then i do as I would normally do.

    - I do fully understand the concerns about "image", and cater to that via my body language and remaining approachable. I have stood around waiting for my wife with my arm OC and haven't had any negative encounters for it, usually i am inside (i don't generally loom around the outside of stores).

    Just my thought
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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Up to and after the cold spell we recently had, I was still OC'ing. I stood around at Seatac Airport for almost an hour waiting on my son, no issues. If I am out shopping with the family and have to wait in one spot for a while, I make it a point to look like I am suppose to be there and act normally, no matter the location.

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    Ya know ...

    I actually had a similar thought at the Bonney Lake Walmart. My daughter had to use the bathroom and I really didn't want to stand next to them OC and wait for her. I don't know, but I thought about Vancouver and decided to look at books and magazines and the little checkstand displays while I waited for her. It did curb just for a moment my thoughts about standing outside the bathroom waiting for her. The door was with-in sight at all times but still.

    Lastly, I usually get wierd reactions while holding a door for someone OC. That's about all the "standing around" I do though

    Joe (cubed)- GREAT Thread question!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I've done it several times to me it's no different than if you were standing around concealed or with no weapon. Making OC natural is also a state of mind, if it doesn't feel natural to you others will perceive this.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I've done it several times to me it's no different than if you were standing around concealed or with no weapon. Making OC natural is also a state of mind, if it doesn't feel natural to you others will perceive this.
    Exactly. The goal of trying to normalize atleast the idea of open carry is a big reason why I do it. I just try to act like I always act and hopefully that can ease people's irrational conceptions about people with guns. If you feel uncomfortable standing around outside of the bathrooms, then go look at the deals in Shotgun News in the magazine section. No biggie...just do what you normally do.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    psst, NavyLt, try the slash that looks like this / . It'll make the "quote" box work better.


    I totally agree with your statements that one needs to decide when and where to OC as well as compliance with requests for ID. While one might be going about a perfectly normal activity, the addition of an exposed firearm can cause others to view it as far from ordinary. If one is hanging out near the restrooms waiting for a spouse, others might view it differently. An example is the Fred Meyer where I frequently shop. The "hallway" where the restrooms are located also serves the offices of the store. The same hallway that the Armored Car Guard carries the money down on his way in/out. Likewise at the local Safeway where the stairs to their office is located next to the restroom. Seeing an armed person in those locations, just hanging out, might be viewed by others as more sinister than just waiting for one's spouse. Some might want to hold her purse to make it more obvious as to their purpose.

    People need to remember that Police are often called because of what people think a gun carrier is doing rather than what they are actually doing.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Some might want to hold her purse to make it more obvious as to their purpose.

    People need to remember that Police are often called because of what people think a gun carrier is doing rather than what they are actually doing.
    I like that idea

    Unfortunately for the Fred Meyer that WE frequent, the restrooms are away from any magazine racks. I think my only options are take a REALLY long drink from the drinking fountain, stand there and watch people (what I'd normally do while CC), or check out the medicine that is right next to the restroom.

    I also like that you said we have to feel natural doing it, or others might perceive us as unnatural.

    Joe~

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    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
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    I go about my day to day business just like all the other sheeple. I ask no quarter, I give no quarter. I am an honest, hard working, law abiding citizen, which just happens to be armed. I grocery shop, I take my wife to dinner, I go to a movie, just like all the other sheeple. I conduct myself the same whether I have a sidearm on or not.
    Semper Fi
    I am a Sheep Dog, ... Wolves Beware !

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Well only one citizen has been found guilty of 'warranting alarm' and only in Vancouver, WA.

    But you are very wise to draw together the conclusion from both Josh's trial and Kirby's deal. Both were 'loitering' around a business with an openly carried firearm in Vancouver. Generally, I don't just hang around while I OC. I continue to shop or go about my business. This was the same before I OC'd and was a CCer. Note that both Josh and Kirby were outside of the business when ticketed.

    My suggestion is to not loiter outside of a business while OC in Vancouver. Go inside and shop.
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    You also have to remember that Josh's incident occurred either late at night or early in the morning on a nearly empty street outside a business that was minutes from closing. I just think that when we evaluate our own behaviors based upon other situations we need to take into account the totality of the situation. I personally can't really make much decision for myself based on Kirby because we don't know how a jury would decide on his case.

    Here's one of my rules of thumb: how many unarmed American's every day stand outside a bathroom and wait for their companions, especially during normal business hours while shopping. I would say plenty. How many unarmed American's every day eat dinner at a restaurant at dinnertime? Even more. So in neither of those cases would I do anything at all to change my behavior. In Washington it is supposed to be the behavior and circumstances that make the gun suspicious; as opposed to the gun making a behavior suspicious.

    I have been detained by the police for eating dinner in a restaurant at dinner time. But that incident would and has in no way deterred me from open carrying in the same circumstances. But in Josh's circumstances... I would probably conceal or submit to the police requests a bit more... that is just me, not saying Josh did anything at all wrong.
    I want to draw the distinction that maybe was missed. I said and will continue to say OUTSIDE of the business. (not sure why you ommited that in my small quote) But I will concur with you NavyLT, it was late at night and OUTSIDE of a business. And I also agree, Josh did absolutely nothing wrong. He had no intent to commit a criminal act, he DID NOT commit a criminal act.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    more,,,

    some other points,,
    josh was standing around in front of a business that had been recently Robbed!
    josh had not caused concern for anybody until the cops told the people
    inside the business that a MWAG was outside!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    some other points,,
    josh was standing around in front of a business that had been recently Robbed!
    josh had not caused concern for anybody until the cops told the people
    inside the business that a MWAG was outside!
    Of course, how else could one create the hysterics needed to incite a condition worthy of warranting alarm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingislife725 View Post
    Exactly. The goal of trying to normalize atleast the idea of open carry is a big reason why I do it. I just try to act like I always act and hopefully that can ease people's irrational conceptions about people with guns. If you feel uncomfortable standing around outside of the bathrooms, then go look at the deals in Shotgun News in the magazine section. No biggie...just do what you normally do.
    +10

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    Regular Member spikeXD45's Avatar
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    Unfortunatly in this area, Vancouver, it is already at the point of if anyone sees your weapon, either in the course of your daily life or standing waiting for your daughter outside the rest room, "warrents alarm" and depending on how bad a day the leo is haveing determines on a ticket.
    "Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick; You Will Go Far" Theodore Roosevelt

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikeXD45 View Post
    Unfortunatly in this area, Vancouver, it is already at the point of if anyone sees your weapon, either in the course of your daily life or standing waiting for your daughter outside the rest room, "warrents alarm" and depending on how bad a day the leo is haveing determines on a ticket.
    Not after Drew and Josh get done with them!!!!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikeXD45 View Post
    Unfortunatly in this area, Vancouver, it is already at the point of if anyone sees your weapon, either in the course of your daily life or standing waiting for your daughter outside the rest room, "warrents alarm" and depending on how bad a day the leo is haveing determines on a ticket.
    And yet there was a picnic held in Vancouver that drew no police attention. Just think how many tickets they could have written if this was truly the case.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Not after Drew and Josh get done with them!!!!
    Did Josh finally enlist the services of Drew? If so I can't wait for the results of the appeal.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    Did Josh finally enlist the services of Drew? If so I can't wait for the results of the appeal.
    Yes and I am glad! He is a straight shooter.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Not after Drew and Josh get done with them!!!!
    Lets hope!

    That's one case I have been following since day one, and it still makes me pissed at how he was convicted. What a sham!

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMCDH View Post
    Lets hope!

    That's one case I have been following since day one, and it still makes me pissed at how he was convicted. What a sham!
    A mistake they made was filling the jury with NRA types, they would have been better off with libertarian hippies.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    A mistake they made was filling the jury with NRA types, they would have been better off with libertarian hippies.
    Or Canadians

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMCDH View Post
    Or Canadians
    True dat....most the Canadians I meet in my neck of the woods are jealous we get as much gun freedom as we do here.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    True dat....most the Canadians I meet in my neck of the woods are jealous we get as much gun freedom as we do here.
    Same here.

    Most don't show the desire to carry so much as to be able to collect and shoot some of the handguns and long-guns we do.

    I think the ability for Canadians to carry as we do in the US is probably a pipe dream long lost for most.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Even for home defense they are pretty much rendered useless.

    I still love what the one Canadian lady told me "What am I supposed to do? hit him with my hockey stick? When talking about an armed intruder into her home.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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