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Thread: And they're off

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    And they're off

    One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.

    McCarthy said she plans to confer with House Speaker John Boehner and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi to see “if we can work something through” in the coming week.
    McCarthy’s bill will look to protect ordinary people, she said, but did not offer further details.
    Just in time for lobby day.
    I'm sure Marsh/Saslaw comedy act are working on a new routine.

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    Perhaps they have come to their senses and will propose to subsidize the purchase of a utilitarian defensive implement "for those most at risk?"

    Nahhh.....

    I don't care whether they are left or right, liberal or conservative, the idea of someone using a tragedy to further a political agenda just makes me sick to my stomach.

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    I doubt the anti's will get it, but here we have the background checks that they push for and we have yet another criminal who passed the background check and went on a killing spree. Cho did the same thing twice. Who are these things stopping and what do they do other than being a hassle for those of us who choose daily to go about not harming anyone?

    We also had one of the most firearm friendly states of the union and despite the fact that people could carry and stop someone like this, they apparently weren't carrying. Why not?

    While folks are caught up in the hubbub of an assassination attempt on a US representative and a federal jude there were about 15 other regular folks killed or harmed by this guy. In all the anti-self defense stuff that comes up in the ensuing days I hope that the anti's will remember that removing a person's ability to carry a gun may affect that person's ability to protect themself when a potential assassin decides he has more targets than just a high profile person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    We also had one of the most firearm friendly states of the union and despite the fact that people could carry and stop someone like this, they apparently weren't carrying. Why not?
    From what I've heard she wasn't particularly anti-gun, but remember, it was a democratic(anti-gun) gathering. Probably not many gun owners, much less carriers, in that group. Probably wouldn't be the case at a republican or tea-party get together.

    Edit: Also, I did hear an interview with a fellow that was armed that was in the Walgreen's Pharmacy right next door when the shooting started. But by the time he heard the shots and got outside, they had already tackled the shooter and the fellow said he saw no need to pull his gun at that point and did help to hold the shooter down until the cops got there.
    Last edited by Notso; 01-09-2011 at 10:32 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The movement to restrict defensive tools will likely accelerate come Monday - this is just the type of event of which the antis have been waiting.

    We must respond logically, strongly but rationally and in great numbers. If we can control the blood-in-the street proponents on this, they will be left empty, void.

    We have all been expecting it - now we need to do what we do best. It is the right thing to do.

    Same goes double for Lobby Day, Jan 17th - we need you more than ever now!
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-09-2011 at 10:38 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    While folks are caught up in the hubbub of an assassination attempt on a US representative and a federal jude there were about 15 other regular folks killed or harmed by this guy.
    People are saying this but the facts as they seem to be known do not support it at all.

    The judge just happened to stop by, could not have been a target, and while I haven't seen if the Congresswoman was the first shot, the fact that he kept on shooting for what had to be at least several seconds clearly illustrates that it was not about just the Congresswoman.

    I'm fairly sure this guy was on a suicide mission, and had simply decided to shoot until he could not shoot any more.

    No amount of ".......-control" laws will ever be able to stop someone with this kind of determination.

    TFred

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    In all the anti-self defense stuff that comes up in the ensuing days I hope that the anti's will remember that removing a person's ability to carry a gun will affect that person's ability to protect themself when a potential assassin decides he has more targets than just a high profile person.
    Problem is, I doubt they can remember that because they never realized it to begin with.

    Some things which I suppose elude the antis:

    1) One can not ban guns.
    That is to say no matter how hard ones tries, one cannot un-invent the gun, remove them from the possession of everyone in the US, and prevent further purchases. To do so would be unconstitutional but let's forget that and suppose one tries. Law abiding citizens would turn in their guns (ok, so not really for the most part. ATF registration anyone?) and few if any would still carry them. That leaves the thug types and criminals with all the firearms. Best of luck to you if you actually use one to defend yourself.

    Think for a second about currently illegal drugs such as Marijuana. Cocaine (Heroin, Ecstasy, pick one) is perhaps a better example as there is no way to legally possess or use it as far as I know. There is no legitimate reason for anyone to ever have cocaine. I've never used the stuff in my life and know of 2 places less than 5 minutes away where I have a very good chance at finding some. The Drug War is a failure and a total ban on firearms would produce similar results.

    2) We fought and killed before we had firearms
    Suppose all commercially produced guns are removed from the possession of everyone but the police types. (naive)
    We'll still have homemade guns, crossbows, penknives, clubs, rocks, explosives, poison, and fists. The brain is the weapon, the firearm is a tool.

    3) When seconds count, the police are minutes away...
    It looks like an unarmed guy tackled the guy shooting everybody, and a citizen with a gun from across the street helped hold him 'till the police arrived. This was a congresswoman. Where were the cops?

    Would armed security (or attendees) have stopped the shooting of 20 people? Probably.
    5 people? Maybe.
    3, 2, 1? Probably not.
    Last edited by t33j; 01-10-2011 at 12:01 AM.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    No amount of ".......-control" laws will ever be able to stop someone with this kind of determination.

    TFred
    +1+1

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    The clear message that this incident sends is that when the SHTF, you're on your own. No one can protect you except yourself. The brave souls who subdued the shooter were doing just that, with every means at their disposal. If anything, McCarthy (D-NY) should push through a proclamation commending them.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    They may not be able to get a full blown gun package through...but then again, they might.

    In addition to the gun bills though, they have also said they want legislation that would make it a crime to make any statement or symbol that could be considered threatening to a federal employee.
    We have more than enough "Sky Is Falling" laws now for the new SS to oppress our rights already.
    Unfortunately, many gun owners will either bend over for such laws to deal out the gun laws, or just be in favor of the collateral damage to be safe.

    I really get sick of this sh**!

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    ... The brain is the weapon, the firearm is a tool...
    Or as I learned: "It is the man, not the weapon, that does or does not."

    The thing is, the politicians see opportunity. While normal people see the tragedy, the vultures in the tree see an opportunity to pass legislation that is little questioned due to emotion (Patriot Act?). Who would dare question something that is already written prepared to be introduced when a tragedy strikes? For it is assured there will be tragedy, just write a bunch of different bills to fit any emotional tragedy and wait. If it is a child, it is worth more emotionally, if it is a public figure it is worth so much, if it is you or I it isn't worth much. It is worth whatever the manipulative MSM says it is worth, then the vultures jump in to action with their battle cry: "I will introduce legislation to stop this sort of thing." The problem is it works in that many bad laws are passed, but does it stop human nature?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The movement to restrict defensive tools will likely accelerate come Monday - this is just the type of event of which the antis have been waiting.

    We must respond logically, strongly but rationally and in great numbers. If we can control the blood-in-the street proponents on this, they will be left empty, void.

    We have all been expecting it - now we need to do what we do best. It is the right thing to do.

    Same goes double for Lobby Day, Jan 17th - we need you more than ever now!
    That response has to be bipartisan, not us versus them, GOP versus Democrats, it has to come from the heart and not emotions. The bigger problem here is what are we going to do with all these "nut jobs" that are part of our society. We have so many people whose mental health is worse than the AZ shooter, so how do we identify them and treat them properly. They key to treating these people is to identify and treat.

    If this senseless incident does not bring our country together, I fear there is no hope for any of us.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    The bigger problem here is what are we going to do with all these "nut jobs" that are part of our society. We have so many people whose mental health is worse than the AZ shooter, so how do we identify them and treat them properly. They key to treating these people is to identify and treat.

    If this senseless incident does not bring our country together, I fear there is no hope for any of us.
    Investigators have focused on Loughner's online anti-government ramblings as the chief motivation for the shooting Saturday of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.).
    The discovery of the shrine raises the possibility that Loughner, 22, may have been driven by other forces. Students and faculty at Pima Community College, which he attended until his suspension last summer, said Loughner was clearly at odds with the world.
    Kenny, coming to terms with mentally unstable people is something we do not want.
    What criteria do we use to decide who's unstable?

    Are you unstable because you like that hell hole you live in?

    Am I because I like to be away from people?

    Is Proshooter because he doesn't like Bar B Q?

    They'll put someone like Novacop in charge of the Id and the Ego files, and no one will own a gun except people who were habitually stuffed in lockers as kids.

    This isn't going to pull this country together. Lori Haas and Sarah Brady are already doing the "Gotcha" dance. Soccer Moms Unite!

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    Quote Originally Posted by t33j View Post
    Problem is, I doubt they can remember that because they never realized it to begin with.
    This is something I knew when I posted, but chose to use the word remember anyway. I think some of them actually do realize it, but believe that the firearm itself is so evil of its own being, they don't care.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Through all the posturing, there are a few voices of reason.



    Father Of 9 Year Old Murder Victim In Tucson Does Not Want Restrictions Of Freedoms!

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    A'hem, not "pointing any fingers", especially in Surry Co. but...,

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    They may not be able to get a full blown gun package through...but then again, they might.

    In addition to the gun bills though, they have also said they want legislation that would make it a crime to make any statement or symbol that could be considered threatening to a federal employee.
    We have more than enough "Sky Is Falling" laws now for the new SS to oppress our rights already.
    Unfortunately, many gun owners will either bend over for such laws to deal out the gun laws, or just be in favor of the collateral damage to be safe.

    I really get sick of this sh**!
    anybody want to wager anything on how "loosely" that kind of legislation would be "interpreted" by some of our uniformed and so called "finest"?

    sidestreet

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Through all the posturing, there are a few voices of reason.



    Father Of 9 Year Old Murder Victim In Tucson Does Not Want Restrictions Of Freedoms!
    Through this difficult time for this man, this father, he is able to speak with more honesty and with candor than are those that would create more potential victims. His voice will be heard repeatedly as this plays out.

    My hat is humbly off to him.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    My idea of protecting the ordinary person would be Constitutional Carry, mandatory firearms training in high school, and subsidies for a defensive sidearm and rifle.

    I think McCarthy's idea of protecting the ordinary person would be to revoke the Second Amendment, door-to-door searches and long prison sentences.

    I really don't see many acceptable paths into the middle ground.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    My idea of protecting the ordinary person would be Constitutional Carry, mandatory firearms training in high school, and subsidies for a defensive sidearm and rifle.

    I think McCarthy's idea of protecting the ordinary person would be to revoke the Second Amendment, door-to-door searches and long prison sentences.

    I really don't see many acceptable paths into the middle ground.
    I don't think she does either. She may be taking the long way around, but all of her paths lead to the same pit.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Is Proshooter because he doesn't like Bar B Q?
    Yes.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    At last, honest talk from members of Congress. This says it all about what they think of them Vs us:
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...eatment-by-tsa

    “We’ve had some incidents where TSA authorities think that congresspeople should be treated like everybody else,” he said. “Well, the fact of the matter is, we are held to a higher standard in so many other areas, and I think we need to take a hard look at exactly how the TSA interact with members of Congress.”

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    Yes.
    +1

  23. #23
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    Yes.

    +1

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    A lot of history about Bar B Q. According to Peter Capstick, it was invented by the Canib Indians and the twig racks were used to cook their neighbors.
    Not that has anything to do with the thread, but Proshooter should understand tradition.

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