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Thread: Agited with Borner's

  1. #1
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Agited with Borner's

    Was in Borner's gun store in Gorst looking for a couple extra mags for my XD whole sale sports in Silverdale only had XDM mags. I walked in OC with my XD on my hip and didn't make it half way to the counter before a man behind the counter barked "you cant have that in here!" I looked around not sure who the man was talking to and found him glaring at me. I looked around one more time and asked him what I could not have. The man barked back "you cant wear a gun in a gun store!" Confused I paused for a moment and told the man to lower his voice, talk to me like a adult and told him if that is his stores policy he needs to post it otherwise how would I know. Keeping in mind we are only arpox 12 feet away he yelled back "Its not store policy its the law!" Trying very hard not to raise my voice I replied "you have one on your hip". The man yelled again "That's different I work here!" Feeling like I wasn't capable of saying any constructive to the situation I replied "Fine I guess I'll take my business ells ware".
    While I was walking out another man was talking to a older woman who was looking at a handgun. The woman was asking questions about whether I was breaking the law or not by open carrying. The man told her "yes he is" and told her that you must conceal carry in the state "especially if you have a conceal pistil permit" The man then showed her a serpa holster and referred to it as a conceal carry holster. The man then pointed to his own belt to give a example. You could clearly see a serpa holster sticking out of a beat up vest that was about two sizes too small for the man. The vest left about 3/4 of his gun clearly viable and he referred to this as conceal carry
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    , I would have said no ma'am he is absolutely wrong.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  3. #3
    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    The Stupid! It burns!

    I would suggest that you write a polite letter to the owners of the store describing the incident and asking that they educate their clerks as to what the law actually does and does not state, and include references to RCW as appropriate.

  4. #4
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    I just canít understand how those working behind a firearms counter can be so clueless of firearms law. You would think even if a minimum wage sales position the owner or management would want knowledgeable personís doings it. Or, do they in fact know but have their own bias towards a form of carry, and policy the tells its counter help to misdirect?

  5. #5
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    This is strange indeed. I have been in there before OCing and had no problems. I was wearing a Colt 1911 in a Kramer mahogony holster.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    I've had a few words with them on OC. It was not a heated conversation. I had actually bought a holster from them. I just looked at him and the holster and told him I wanted to get my $ back. My intention was to see if they could check the holster and see why it didn't fit properly. Since they were so snotty, I decided to not do business with them.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    There is no extra charge for unsolicited, ignorant opinions - educate them with the facts...politely and formally.....write that letter.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.Ē Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    a beat up vest that was about two sizes too small for the man.
    Apparently his brain is two sizes too small as well.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Apparently his brain is two sizes too small as well.
    Or simply misinformed - not every one has the benefit of the same knowledge.

    Better, I think, to educate them politely than to criticize them. Ask which way is the most productive.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.Ē Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    I never seem to be able to find the time to go into Boerner's and I live in the neighborhood. I keep hearing stories like this one. Apparently they are doing a booming business and don't need to have the open carriers money.

  11. #11
    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    I've OC'd in there as well and never had a problem. Strange.

  12. #12
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    I just canít understand how those working behind a firearms counter can be so clueless of firearms law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Or simply misinformed - not every one has the benefit of the same knowledge.

    Better, I think, to educate them politely than to criticize them. Ask which way is the most productive.
    I agree with jbone. One who is selling firearms should be more knowledgeable when it comes to firearms law, especially in this State where they are rather simple and lenient.

    My experience in this State, with people like this behind the gun counter, they aren't going to be educated by anyone, especially a Customer.

    Like others have said, when I encounter this I make my complaint known to the Owner and if they aren't receptive I just take my money elsewhere. What I find interesting is that my favorite Dealer has been in business for almost 65 years. They could care less about open carry, just keep it in the holster. Maybe thats part of the reason they've been around so long.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    I agree with jbone. One who is selling firearms should be more knowledgeable when it comes to firearms law, especially in this State where they are rather simple and lenient.

    My experience in this State, with people like this behind the gun counter, they aren't going to be educated by anyone, especially a Customer.

    Like others have said, when I encounter this I make my complaint known to the Owner and if they aren't receptive I just take my money elsewhere. What I find interesting is that my favorite Dealer has been in business for almost 65 years. They could care less about open carry, just keep it in the holster. Maybe thats part of the reason they've been around so long.
    I don't disagree - just recommend steps 1 & 2 before #3.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.Ē Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
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    Go back in and ask for Mike Blacknall. Mike is a retired POPD Chief and is very aware of oc and it's legallity. Bill Boerner, on the other hand is completely ignorant and highly opinionated on the subject. He once told me that I could be arrested for causing an accident if a cop responding to a call about MWAG had the accident. His rationale...I caused the call to be made. Figure that one out if you can.
    I would bet the employee was the tall slender black man. He is a piece of work.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    I'll add myself to the list of people who have OCd in there with no drama. I was only ever in there once and wasn't impressed; your experience seems to fit the whole atmosphere in the place. It's worth the drive and the toll to just go to Mary's Pistols in Tacoma.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    I just canít understand how those working behind a firearms counter can be so clueless of firearms law. You would think even if a minimum wage sales position the owner or management would want knowledgeable personís doings it. Or, do they in fact know but have their own bias towards a form of carry, and policy the tells its counter help to misdirect?

    +10 It sounds so stupid I am almost going to accuse the original author of making it up.

  17. #17
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    A friend of mine open carried in there a few months ago and had no problem I guess it just all depends on who is working that day. It just irritates me I thought we were all suppose to be on the same team
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

  18. #18
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Go back in and ask for Mike Blacknall. Mike is a retired POPD Chief and is very aware of oc and it's legallity. Bill Boerner, on the other hand is completely ignorant and highly opinionated on the subject. He once told me that I could be arrested for causing an accident if a cop responding to a call about MWAG had the accident. His rationale...I caused the call to be made. Figure that one out if you can.
    I would bet the employee was the tall slender black man. He is a piece of work.
    If the owner is ignorant, what would you expect of his employees?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    I just canít understand how those working behind a firearms counter can be so clueless of firearms law.
    Working in a gun shop seems to attract a certain kind of employee, one who is eager to feel "special" and like an "expert". These people tend to be insecure, and overcompensate by blustering.

    I don't know what it is about gun shops that attract such people, but I've seen it over and over.

  20. #20
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    I have OCed in Borner's before as well. There are 2 specific employees that I can think of that without a doubt know and don't care. One is a heavyset white guy that has a glock on his hip, the other is a tall guy who's always wearing Multicam pants who wears his gun (no idea of the model). Both of these guys have referenced my gun when others were shopping to mention some differences in mainly polymer guns. It's weird that anyone there would have a problem, though I have seen 1 of the guys, a heavier set older guy, who was arguing the law with a customer multiple times and was wrong both times.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I have had a similiar response from the Asian guy at Marksman. I asked him if he would like some open pamphlets since I did not see any around. He said that open carry is not legal and Marksman didnt want to promote something that would get you thrown in jail. I found my welcome matt on the other side of the door as I left.
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