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Thread: Just what we need

  1. #1
    Regular Member teemgreen99's Avatar
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    Just what we need

    The antis are having a field day with this shooting in Arizona. I mean thats to be expected. I hear they are even blaming Sara Palin now. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this tragic event.
    Last edited by teemgreen99; 01-10-2011 at 02:06 PM.

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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teemgreen99 View Post
    The antis are having a field day with this shooting in Arizona. I mean thats to be expected. I hear they are even blaming Sara Palin now. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this tragic event.
    They'll want to create stricter gun laws over this which is ridiculous considering that guy was mentally ill and proved it on many youtube videos (one of which says the government uses grammar to control us). Under the current law he shouldn't have been able to own firearms in the first place. I'm still amazed he killed as many people as he did without a responsible Arizona gun owner taking him down. They actually ended up tackling him?!
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose View Post
    They'll want to create stricter gun laws over this which is ridiculous considering that guy was mentally ill and proved it on many youtube videos (one of which says the government uses grammar to control us). Under the current law he shouldn't have been able to own firearms in the first place. I'm still amazed he killed as many people as he did without a responsible Arizona gun owner taking him down. They actually ended up tackling him?!
    It happened much too quickly. In a situation were an active shooter pulls a gun and opens fire into a crowd with no warning, chances are that he will empty his magazine before the average gun owner has time to process enough information to respond in a definitive manner.

    From what I understand the whole shooting took place in approximately 15 to 20 seconds timeframe.

    Someone with a CCW, or Open Carrying, would not have time to realize what was going on, identify the target, draw a weapon, ensure clear field of fire, and dispatch the shooter without killing innocent bystanders.

    In this situation a bystander grabbed the shooter's 30 round full magazine as he was ejecting the spent magazine. This allowed an opportunity for other bystanders to tackle and subdue the shooter. Since his gun was empty at this stage, there was no need to shoot him.

    Had he been able to reload, by that time there may have been enough time for a gun carrying citizen to effectively intervene with return fire.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Lose
    ...many youtube videos (one of which says the government uses grammar to control us).
    What, you've never heard of the grammer police?

    Under the current law he shouldn't have been able to own firearms in the first place.
    I've seen nothing in the press saying he was a prohibited person. In fact, he bought the murder weapon from an FFL, so passed a background check.

    Even if he's mentally ill, he's not prohibited from buying or posessing a firearm. Read the 4473 - it asks if the buyer has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or involuntarily committed to a mental facility. That's a pretty high standard.

    Does AZ have tougher laws than the feds?
    There's an interesting sub-topic - if state laws are more stringent, are they legal? I know states that look at things other than what's on the 4473 to determine CC licenses, but I don't know if they also apply to purchase or posession.

    Then again, we're in the CA forum, and CA laws are blatantly unconstitutional yet lawmakers & enforcers haven't been punished. (Yet?)
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    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    What, you've never heard of the grammer police?


    I've seen nothing in the press saying he was a prohibited person. In fact, he bought the murder weapon from an FFL, so passed a background check.

    Even if he's mentally ill, he's not prohibited from buying or posessing a firearm. Read the 4473 - it asks if the buyer has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or involuntarily committed to a mental facility. That's a pretty high standard.

    Does AZ have tougher laws than the feds?
    There's an interesting sub-topic - if state laws are more stringent, are they legal? I know states that look at things other than what's on the 4473 to determine CC licenses, but I don't know if they also apply to purchase or posession.

    Then again, we're in the CA forum, and CA laws are blatantly unconstitutional yet lawmakers & enforcers haven't been punished. (Yet?)
    I think you meant to say he wasn't prohibited YET. I think we can all agree it was only a matter of time before that would have happened.
    I thought i read something that said he was expelled from the college and they said they wouldn't let him back in until he had a psych eval.
    Last edited by Born2Lose; 01-10-2011 at 05:11 PM.
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Please focus on what matters, and spread this info to all.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUmmOWL05r8

    and more so this one.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSDLf3jMlsc

    A Responsible Law abiding armed citizen was there just not close enough to make a difference during the criminals shots. I can only hope if I ever was in his position I would perform to his level of maturity and bravery.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    What, you've never heard of the grammer police?


    I've seen nothing in the press saying he was a prohibited person. In fact, he bought the murder weapon from an FFL, so passed a background check.
    I believe the info just came out the military denied him because he failed a drug test upon trying to enter. Although im sure that info didnt make it quickly enough to the right source to preclude his ability to purchase a firearm. I believe drug use is still a no go for purchasing a firearm, in AZ??? can anyone confirm.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Firemark, thanks for those links...I hadn't seen or heard those yet.

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    saw this coming

    Quote Originally Posted by teemgreen99 View Post
    The antis are having a field day with this shooting in Arizona. I mean thats to be expected. I hear they are even blaming Sara Palin now. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this tragic event.
    http://www.10news.com/news/26439844/detail.html

  10. #10
    Regular Member teemgreen99's Avatar
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    ConsideringOC

    Thanks for the link, I had not seen that but I was wondering how long it would take before saldana chimed in on this Arizona tragedy and open carry. I personally have mostly been a solo OCer yet I always carry the pamphlet because someone always wants to learn. I am very willing to do some group work at this point as it is my feeling that now is the time we need to really educate people of our rights and that "guns dont kill people, people kill people". OCKimber and myself are currently forming an Orange County OC chapter if you will if you have any questions about anything please contact him or myself.

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    I believe drug use is still a no go for purchasing a firearm, in AZ??? can anyone confirm.
    I believe the CA form asks if the buyer is addicted to illegal drugs. The mere use of drugs isn't a disqualifying factor.

    I haven't seen anybody mention this, but that Safeway where the shooting took place was directly across the street from a high school, meaning the gunman had entered a federal gun-free school zone to commit the murders. Unless he had a CCW (which I doubt), he was violating federal law.

  12. #12
    Regular Member teemgreen99's Avatar
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    Thumbs up bigtoe416

    great find on the high school buddy

  13. #13
    Regular Member teemgreen99's Avatar
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    terrible

    so i hear now that the westboro baptist church will be attending the 9 year old girls funeral in protest to "thank God for the shooter". A biker club is supposed to be there to keep them back so that the families can enjoy there final memories of there loved one. I do not know when the funeral will be held but im hoping that some of the Arizona open carriers will be there to help the biker group.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Born2Lose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    I believe the CA form asks if the buyer is addicted to illegal drugs. The mere use of drugs isn't a disqualifying factor.

    I haven't seen anybody mention this, but that Safeway where the shooting took place was directly across the street from a high school, meaning the gunman had entered a federal gun-free school zone to commit the murders. Unless he had a CCW (which I doubt), he was violating federal law.
    Doesn't he know that's against the law?
    "If I don't have my pistol, I feel sort of naked." -Unosuke Gunfighter in the movie Yojimbo

  15. #15
    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teemgreen99 View Post
    so i hear now that the westboro baptist church will be attending the 9 year old girls funeral in protest to "thank God for the shooter". A biker club is supposed to be there to keep them back so that the families can enjoy there final memories of there loved one. I do not know when the funeral will be held but im hoping that some of the Arizona open carriers will be there to help the biker group.
    Our legislature passed an amendment to the ARS making it a misdemeanor to protest within 300' of the property line of the location of the funeral.
    The 'church' canceled their protest. What a surprise...

    As for the 1000' GFSZ, it's not enforced in AZ.

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