Just what we need

The antis are having a field day with this shooting in Arizona. I mean thats to be expected. I hear they are even blaming Sara Palin now. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this tragic event.

teemgreen99 said:

The antis are having a field day with this shooting in Arizona. I mean thats to be expected. I hear they are even blaming Sara Palin now. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this tragic event.

Click to expand...

They'll want to create stricter gun laws over this which is ridiculous considering that guy was mentally ill and proved it on many youtube videos (one of which says the government uses grammar to control us). Under the current law he shouldn't have been able to own firearms in the first place. I'm still amazed he killed as many people as he did without a responsible Arizona gun owner taking him down. They actually ended up tackling him?!

Born2Lose said:

They'll want to create stricter gun laws over this which is ridiculous considering that guy was mentally ill and proved it on many youtube videos (one of which says the government uses grammar to control us). Under the current law he shouldn't have been able to own firearms in the first place. I'm still amazed he killed as many people as he did without a responsible Arizona gun owner taking him down. They actually ended up tackling him?!

Click to expand...

It happened much too quickly. In a situation were an active shooter pulls a gun and opens fire into a crowd with no warning, chances are that he will empty his magazine before the average gun owner has time to process enough information to respond in a definitive manner.

From what I understand the whole shooting took place in approximately 15 to 20 seconds timeframe.

Someone with a CCW, or Open Carrying, would not have time to realize what was going on, identify the target, draw a weapon, ensure clear field of fire, and dispatch the shooter without killing innocent bystanders.

In this situation a bystander grabbed the shooter's 30 round full magazine as he was ejecting the spent magazine. This allowed an opportunity for other bystanders to tackle and subdue the shooter. Since his gun was empty at this stage, there was no need to shoot him.

Had he been able to reload, by that time there may have been enough time for a gun carrying citizen to effectively intervene with return fire.

Born2Lose said:

...many youtube videos (one of which says the government uses grammar to control us).

Click to expand...

What, you've never heard of the grammer police?

Under the current law he shouldn't have been able to own firearms in the first place.

Click to expand...

I've seen nothing in the press saying he was a prohibited person. In fact, he bought the murder weapon from an FFL, so passed a background check.

Even if he's mentally ill, he's not prohibited from buying or posessing a firearm. Read the 4473 - it asks if the buyer has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or involuntarily committed to a mental facility. That's a pretty high standard.

Does AZ have tougher laws than the feds?
There's an interesting sub-topic - if state laws are more stringent, are they legal? I know states that look at things other than what's on the 4473 to determine CC licenses, but I don't know if they also apply to purchase or posession.

Then again, we're in the CA forum, and CA laws are blatantly unconstitutional yet lawmakers & enforcers haven't been punished. (Yet?)

MKEgal said:

What, you've never heard of the grammer police?


I've seen nothing in the press saying he was a prohibited person. In fact, he bought the murder weapon from an FFL, so passed a background check.

Even if he's mentally ill, he's not prohibited from buying or posessing a firearm. Read the 4473 - it asks if the buyer has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or involuntarily committed to a mental facility. That's a pretty high standard.

Does AZ have tougher laws than the feds?
There's an interesting sub-topic - if state laws are more stringent, are they legal? I know states that look at things other than what's on the 4473 to determine CC licenses, but I don't know if they also apply to purchase or posession.

Then again, we're in the CA forum, and CA laws are blatantly unconstitutional yet lawmakers & enforcers haven't been punished. (Yet?)

Click to expand...

I think you meant to say he wasn't prohibited YET. I think we can all agree it was only a matter of time before that would have happened.
I thought i read something that said he was expelled from the college and they said they wouldn't let him back in until he had a psych eval.

Please focus on what matters, and spread this info to all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUmmOWL05r8

and more so this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSDLf3jMlsc

A Responsible Law abiding armed citizen was there just not close enough to make a difference during the criminals shots. I can only hope if I ever was in his position I would perform to his level of maturity and bravery.

MKEgal said:

What, you've never heard of the grammer police?


I've seen nothing in the press saying he was a prohibited person. In fact, he bought the murder weapon from an FFL, so passed a background check.

Click to expand...

I believe the info just came out the military denied him because he failed a drug test upon trying to enter. Although im sure that info didnt make it quickly enough to the right source to preclude his ability to purchase a firearm. I believe drug use is still a no go for purchasing a firearm, in AZ??? can anyone confirm.

Firemark, thanks for those links...I hadn't seen or heard those yet.

saw this coming

teemgreen99 said:

The antis are having a field day with this shooting in Arizona. I mean thats to be expected. I hear they are even blaming Sara Palin now. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this tragic event.

Click to expand...

http://www.10news.com/news/26439844/detail.html

ConsideringOC

Thanks for the link, I had not seen that but I was wondering how long it would take before saldana chimed in on this Arizona tragedy and open carry. I personally have mostly been a solo OCer yet I always carry the pamphlet because someone always wants to learn. I am very willing to do some group work at this point as it is my feeling that now is the time we need to really educate people of our rights and that "guns dont kill people, people kill people". OCKimber and myself are currently forming an Orange County OC chapter if you will if you have any questions about anything please contact him or myself.

Firemark said:

I believe drug use is still a no go for purchasing a firearm, in AZ??? can anyone confirm.

Click to expand...

I believe the CA form asks if the buyer is addicted to illegal drugs. The mere use of drugs isn't a disqualifying factor.

I haven't seen anybody mention this, but that Safeway where the shooting took place was directly across the street from a high school, meaning the gunman had entered a federal gun-free school zone to commit the murders. Unless he had a CCW (which I doubt), he was violating federal law.

bigtoe416

great find on the high school buddy

terrible

so i hear now that the westboro baptist church will be attending the 9 year old girls funeral in protest to "thank God for the shooter". A biker club is supposed to be there to keep them back so that the families can enjoy there final memories of there loved one. I do not know when the funeral will be held but im hoping that some of the Arizona open carriers will be there to help the biker group.

bigtoe416 said:

I believe the CA form asks if the buyer is addicted to illegal drugs. The mere use of drugs isn't a disqualifying factor.

I haven't seen anybody mention this, but that Safeway where the shooting took place was directly across the street from a high school, meaning the gunman had entered a federal gun-free school zone to commit the murders. Unless he had a CCW (which I doubt), he was violating federal law.

Click to expand...

Doesn't he know that's against the law?

teemgreen99 said:

so i hear now that the westboro baptist church will be attending the 9 year old girls funeral in protest to "thank God for the shooter". A biker club is supposed to be there to keep them back so that the families can enjoy there final memories of there loved one. I do not know when the funeral will be held but im hoping that some of the Arizona open carriers will be there to help the biker group.

Click to expand...

Our legislature passed an amendment to the ARS making it a misdemeanor to protest within 300' of the property line of the location of the funeral.
The 'church' canceled their protest. What a surprise...

As for the 1000' GFSZ, it's not enforced in AZ.

-MH