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Thread: Self Defense Shooting

  1. #1
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    Self Defense Shooting

    http://www.lex18.com/news/man-shoots-kills-intruder/

    INDEPENDENCE (AP) - Police in northern Kentucky say a man has fatally shot a neighbor who broke into his home and attacked a sleeping couple with a chair.

    Police in Independence didn't identify the shooter or the dead man after the incident early Sunday.

    Authorities say the intruder was 45 years old.

    The man who lives in the home shot the intruder several times with a handgun. The man fled, but collapsed in the front yard, where police found him. He was pronounced dead a short time later.

    Police say the homeowner was shot once, but the wound was not life-threatening.

  2. #2
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm, if the intruder broke into the house and attacked the sleeping couple with a chair but shot the homeowner with a gun, something's awry. If the intruder had a gun, why didn't he shoot the sleeping couple as well? What was this individual's motives? If the intruder wasn't the one with a hun, then who shot the homeowner? Did the homeowner shoot himself?

    I hate when the papers don't give ALL the details and leave out the key pieces of the story. *LOL* Hopefully we'll learn in the coming gays.
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    I live in the region this occured (northern Kentucky, I reside in SW Ohio) and saw several media accounts--which by the way it doesn't pay to take at face value.

    One or more of the stories made it sound like the homeowner accidentally put one round into his own foot or leg during the attack. Given the conditions of being roused from sleep by someone standing over your bed, attempting to pummel you with a chair,, it's not unimaginable that one round of several fired by the good guy--could go astray in such a manner.

    Haven't seen/heard/read any updates in the last day or so, the police and prosecutorial investigators are doubtless still doing their thing.

    One thing that was pretty consistent through the accounts was the media referring to the homeowner as the 'victim', instead of giving the alleged perpetrator that status.

  4. #4
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    1) Witness that the criminal was in the house when the shooting occurred

    2) Castle Doctrine

    3) Case closed

    God I love Kentucky!
    Last edited by UnfetteredMight; 01-11-2011 at 02:23 PM. Reason: grammatical error

  5. #5
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfetteredmight View Post
    1) witness that the criminal was in the house when the shooting occurred

    2) castle doctrine

    3) case closed

    god i love kentucky!
    amen!
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  6. #6
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    Under KY law, KRS 503, the perp. doesnt even have to be inside. He just has to be trying to force his way inside, for it to still be considered self defense, and be safe from civil suit as well. This case is defin. shut and dry. There is no question this was a self defense shooting. Refer to the case in olive hill last year I believe. The man was trying to force his way into this mans house, and the gentlemen shot him through the door after telling him he was armed with a shotgun and would shoot if he didnt quit. The case did go to trial, but he was aquitted by a jury. Thank KY legislatures for allowing us to defend ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post

    One or more of the stories made it sound like the homeowner accidentally put one round into his own foot or leg during the attack. Given the conditions of being roused from sleep by someone standing over your bed, attempting to pummel you with a chair,, it's not unimaginable that one round of several fired by the good guy--could go astray in such a manner.
    This sounds probable. What a world we live in where your neighbor [the one who is supposed to have your back] assaults you.
    Last edited by AFPVet; 01-16-2011 at 04:35 PM.

  8. #8
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    The homeowner must've shot himself. Gives new meaning to "Shooting to wound only hurts you".

    Seriously, though, if he shot himself, it had to have been before he shot the intruder, or he wouldn't be shooting at all. In any event, kudos to the homeowner for hitting his mark with a bullet in his body. Glad he had the stones to keep pulling the trigger. A dead neighbor is better than a chair'd-to-death wife.

    ... Who breaks into a house only to attack someone with furnature? What, he didn't have his own chair to bring over? This guy sounds like he was a few rounds short of a full magazine, if you ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Under KY law, KRS 503, the perp. doesnt even have to be inside. He just has to be trying to force his way inside, for it to still be considered self defense, and be safe from civil suit as well. This case is defin. shut and dry. There is no question this was a self defense shooting. Refer to the case in olive hill last year I believe. The man was trying to force his way into this mans house, and the gentlemen shot him through the door after telling him he was armed with a shotgun and would shoot if he didnt quit. The case did go to trial, but he was aquitted by a jury. Thank KY legislatures for allowing us to defend ourselves.
    I know that the definition does say that you don't have to wait until they have broke in, but it's best to, as the case for olive hill shows. If he had been afforded the protections against criminal and civil liability as defined by the statutes for self defense, it would have never went to trial in the first place.

    Someones beating down your door, arm yourself and call the police. If they come through, end their existence.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnfetteredMight View Post
    I know that the definition does say that you don't have to wait until they have broke in, but it's best to, as the case for olive hill shows. If he had been afforded the protections against criminal and civil liability as defined by the statutes for self defense, it would have never went to trial in the first place.

    Someones beating down your door, arm yourself and call the police. If they come through, end their existence.
    Your statement about not going to trial is not neccessarily true. The Commonwealth Attorney makes the decision whether to send it to the Grand Jury or not or to charge you on information. If you must shoot someone, the charge is sent to the Grand Jury for indictment or you are charged by information, it doesn't matter whether they where inside or out at the time of the shooting. Once you are found not guilty or the Grand Jury returns a No Bill or you are not charged, then you will be protected by the Castle Doctrine. That is my understanding.
    Speed is fine
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    Your statement about not going to trial is not neccessarily true. The Commonwealth Attorney makes the decision whether to send it to the Grand Jury or not or to charge you on information. If you must shoot someone, the charge is sent to the Grand Jury for indictment or you are charged by information, it doesn't matter whether they where inside or out at the time of the shooting. Once you are found not guilty or the Grand Jury returns a No Bill or you are not charged, then you will be protected by the Castle Doctrine. That is my understanding.
    Castle Doctrine automatically puts the burden of proof on the prosecutor to show that it was anything other than self defense, a hard egg to crack for them for sure. Most don't want to mess with it. Other places, the burden of proof is on you to show it was. Castle Doctrine kinda loses it's point if you are indicted at any point in the process. I personally don't know of any case where a shooting occurred in a home or car and the person was brought up on charges.

    Remember the shooting that happened not too long ago with the two guys in their car and the football player? They actually left the scene AFTER shooting him and they were still not charged with anything. Personally, I think that shows a guilty conscience, but it didn't matter because of Castle Doctrine.

    The self defense laws in this state not only protect you from criminal and civil liability, unless the responding officer can show articulated proof that it wasn't an act of self defense, they aren't even suppose to arrest you.

    Now I am not a lawyer, but this is my understanding after many hours of research. I would welcome any information or cases that showed results contrary to what I saying.

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    My wife and I lock our bedroom door when we go to sleep at night. That way if someone gets into the home from the opposite end of the building and is quiet enough not to wake me up they will have to break through the door which might give me a little notice in order to grab my pistol.

    At the very least, I won't be waking up to someone already clubbing or stabbing me while I am laying defenseless in my bed asleep.

    Getting a big dog that will bark if someone is trying to break in will help as well.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    My wife and I lock our bedroom door when we go to sleep at night. That way if someone gets into the home from the opposite end of the building and is quiet enough not to wake me up they will have to break through the door which might give me a little notice in order to grab my pistol.

    At the very least, I won't be waking up to someone already clubbing or stabbing me while I am laying defenseless in my bed asleep.

    Getting a big dog that will bark if someone is trying to break in will help as well.
    Also, be sure to bolt all furnatire and household appliances to a stable surface, such as the ground or a steel beam hidden in your wall. This will help to prevent a household chair, couch, television center, or refridgerator from become a murder weapon when your house is burglarized.

    I myself am investing in bulletproof pajamas, just to make it that much easier on myself when someone assaults me with a lazyboy.

    I lock the bedroom door, too. The afforementioned thought process is the same as my own when I go to bed. My wife and I live in a small apartment and there is very little room between our front door and our bedroom door. Without the bedroom door locked, someone could probably kick in my front door and be right in front of my wife and I before I become coherent enough to reach for the gun.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    My wife and I lock our bedroom door when we go to sleep at night. That way if someone gets into the home from the opposite end of the building and is quiet enough not to wake me up they will have to break through the door which might give me a little notice in order to grab my pistol.

    At the very least, I won't be waking up to someone already clubbing or stabbing me while I am laying defenseless in my bed asleep.

    Getting a big dog that will bark if someone is trying to break in will help as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal Power View Post
    Also, be sure to bolt all furnatire and household appliances to a stable surface, such as the ground or a steel beam hidden in your wall. This will help to prevent a household chair, couch, television center, or refridgerator from become a murder weapon when your house is burglarized.

    I myself am investing in bulletproof pajamas, just to make it that much easier on myself when someone assaults me with a lazyboy.

    I lock the bedroom door, too. The afforementioned thought process is the same as my own when I go to bed. My wife and I live in a small apartment and there is very little room between our front door and our bedroom door. Without the bedroom door locked, someone could probably kick in my front door and be right in front of my wife and I before I become coherent enough to reach for the gun.
    That's where the IR automated 7.62x39 turrets come in.

    Can't seem to keep a dog though.....
    Last edited by UnfetteredMight; 01-21-2011 at 02:35 PM.

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    We have 3 dogs of various sizes...2 will bark at anything and all I ask from them is to give me about 3 seconds to get up and draw my pistol or rack the 12 gauge.

    If they can do that then that is all I need them for in a home invasion/burglary scenario.




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