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Thread: The Interrupted Dinner

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down The Interrupted Dinner

    HELLO FOLKS! Remember me? Your friendly Outsider is back with a story! I haven't been around for a long, long time because I've just been so dang busy. Anyway, I wanted to share with you a story that just goes too far.

    Tonight my wife, my nine month old daughter, two of our closest friends, and I went to dinner at the New Chinese Gourmet Buffet on North State Street here in Orem. I was wearing my new Jamestown S'Klallam Tribal jacket (I'm a Native American from Washington) that my mother got me for Christmas. The jacket comes to the waist and the shirt I was wearing was a little long. I tucked in the shirt so it wouldn't hang out from the bottom of the jacket and look horrible (I would have thought I was wearing a dress had it been hanging out). I had my Kahr CW40 inside the waistband.

    My party and I arrived at the buffet and got seated. I took off my jacket and went from concealed carry to open carry. Have done this in the past, no problem. I didn't want to un-tuck my shirt because then I would have to re-tuck it in when I put my jacket on, etc. I just didn't want to do it. After everyone got their food we were sitting and talking a man came up to me. He said he was fifty-eight, a concealed firearm permit hold, law enforcement, etc. He said he was going to give me some "unsolicited advise." I was polite and listened to him opinion. He basically told me I was going to get my head blown off because anyone could come and take my firearm. I was putting others in danger and giving up the element of surprise. It was the classic open vs concealed argument. I was completely polite, etc. I really didn't say anything. I stated I had some training, I was a private investigator, had been trained in bail enforcement, etc. I just basically listed my certifications and training. Not much, but I believe I have had enough to know how to do weapon retention, threat assessment, etc. The man left and we went about our dinner. We had a few laughs at our table about the encounter.

    When the man was leaving he came back over to our table. He stated, "I called the police and they confirmed what you are doing is okay and within the law." Well, a red flag came up. This man said he was in law enforcement, so why did he call the police department to confirm the law he should have already known? He went on to say I was "young and irresponsible" and was putting everyone around me in danger. From there I took a stand (not literally standing up, just a moral stand). I told him that I wasn't going to argue with him. "I'm not going to argue with you, sir." He continued to say that he had four out of five sons in the military and a few other things. Again, I stated, "I'm not going to argue with you, sir." At this time he was basically yelling at me. He started to walk away when I said, "You said you were in law enforcement, sir. Can I see some ID?" He waved his hand at me and left the restaurant.

    Now, please correct me if I'm wrong, but when a citizen asks for your ID as a law enforcement officer you are suppose to produce it, correct? I think the exception is during undercover operations. So I think this man falsely identified himself as a law enforcement officer. He said he was law enforcement, but then said he called the police to confirm what I was doing was legal? Then not producing ID when asked? Something was really wrong here.

    I know everyone has their opinion and they are entitled to said opinion. There are places and times in which you can offer said opinion, but not while someone you don't know is having dinner with family and friends and interrupting their dinner and friendly outing.

    Just thought I'd share with you my experience tonight going from concealed carry, open carry, back to concealed carry.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
    Lone Eagle Observer (http://www.charlesahall.us)
    Facebook Page || http://twitter.com/CharlesAHall

  2. #2
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    You raise an interesting point. Perhaps in the future, anytime someone in street clothes purports to be a police officer our immediate response should be to ask for identification. If they refuse or fail to provide it, we should be on our cell phones reporting someone impersonating an officer.

    Of course, a good retention holster is advised anytime we OC. So if we are going to switch between CC and OC, a retention holster should be used.

    There are times and places where I'm quite happy to discuss my political and tactical views. There are times and places I'm not. And even when I am, I think it really unwise to get into any kind of heated discussion while I'm armed.

    Something along the lines of, "I'm not really interested in discussing this with a stranger right now," to prevent a debate or even "We'll have to agree to disagree," to end one that is going the wrong direction, seems about appropriate as an initial, polite, but direct communication to a busy body. After that, a louder, more firm, "I said, 'I don't wish to talk to you!' Step away from me now or I will call the police!" may well be in order.

    Charles

  3. #3
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    You handled it well, being a very annoying situation. I don't care to debate strangers when having dinner with family/friends. While this guy has a right to his opinions, he doesn't have the right to force them on you. And good for the dispatcher who handled his call. They all should go like that.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I agree with what the other two guys said.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  5. #5
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I agree with what the other two guys said.
    So do I.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "I carry my crucifix/magen david/pentacle/lump of bubble gum concealed."
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-15-2011 at 04:40 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    "I carry my crucifix/magen david/pentacle/lump of bubble gum concealed."
    But, now you have told all of us....and we are in awe.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  8. #8
    Regular Member colormered's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    You raise an interesting point. Perhaps in the future, anytime someone in street clothes purports to be a police officer our immediate response should be to ask for identification. If they refuse or fail to provide it, we should be on our cell phones reporting someone impersonating an officer.
    Seems to me, (while not in the heat of the moment) that, even before dialing 911, it would seem prudent to whip out the cell phone camera, snap their photo, THEN proceed to call in the cavalry. If bozo manages to leave in the 4-20 minute response time, at least you have his photo to aid in his apprehension.

    If he leaves to call the police to see if your actions are legal, he apparently isn't a serious threat, and he already knows you're armed, and therefore isn't likely to do much to provoke you.

    This is just my opinion, and NOT legal advice. Do with it what your best judgment tells you.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsider View Post
    Now, please correct me if I'm wrong, but when a citizen asks for your ID as a law enforcement officer you are suppose to produce it, correct?
    Well, yes and no. He could have been former law enforcement, but it sounds like he was simply impersonating a police officer, which, had he showed you his ID, you might have gotten him in serious trouble.

    He just didn't like your OC and wanted to "learn you a thing or two!"

    People like that don't make sense. They just are.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    My similar encounter was a little less annoying than yours was. I had a concealed carrier look down his nose at me at Jack in the Box. The conversations went like this:

    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.
    Nice - I'll have to remember that one as I've heard "I carry concealed" once before in that manner, and probably will again.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  11. #11
    Regular Member turbodog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post

    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.
    "
    ROTFLOL I love it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    But, now you have told all of us....and we are in awe.
    My fault, I forgot how to do the [satire] [/satire] tags, lol.

  13. #13
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    I will bet he was just another bed wetter. Thats what they love to do "I have guns or Im an NRA member or I have freinds with guns BS" Its all BS. Dont give them the pleasure and you did right by asking for his ID, although a tad late.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Unwanted advice

    You are far more tolerant than I'd have been. The moment he said 'advice' I'd have told him to step away and mind his own business. In fact, it's a good idea to stand up and face people who come up to you. You don't know what their agenda is.

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